Simbiosis and Cigarette Industry


I realize this is an episode about drug addiction, but is it also a commentary about the cigarette industry? I was reading about the cigarette industry and was reminded of the two characters from the planet providing the drugs and living off the drug addiction of an entire population. It's really infuriating, especially when I see older people suffering from breathing problems because of a lifetime of smoking.

So my question is was it right for the government to go after the cigarette industry? I believe in Capitalism, but I think what the cigarette industry did to people was evil. They got no sympathy from me.

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If you're dumb enough to buy cigs, then, I'd make money off of dopes.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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If you're dumb enough to buy cigs, then, I'd make money off of dopes.


But people often get addicted to them when they're adolescents, when they're too immature to grasp what the lifelong consequences will be. My mom started as a teenager in the 1960's. At that time, Hollywood had been glamourizing smoking for several decades. Three packs a day and now she has COPD. Good thing cancer doesn't run in our family. I tried smoking when I was 15 in order to be like my friends, to feel more grown-up. Thankfully I got bored with it right away. At my age, 48, smoking for decades really shows up in the skin. For the last several years, people have been surprised to find out I have an adult daughter.

When my daughter was 5, we were at the mall and passed a window display with a skeleton smoking a cigarette. I told her that's what happens when you smoke. Her eyes got wide and she said, "I didn't know that." LOL.

Interesting fact: cigarette smoking peaked in the 1950's at 45% of adult population, and is now at 24%.

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Ruby, my mother (died 2011) was a chronic smoker, although that's not ultimately what killed her.

What I resent her for was that one day, she suddenly shoved a lit cigarette in my mouth when I wasn't expecting it, in the middle of a game of Scrabble as I recall. It was her attempt to put me off smoking for life, and luckily, LUCKILY it worked (I coughed and spluttered). HOWEVER, it could so easily have gone the other way, in that she might have gotten me hooked! I was under 18 at the time!! As for her getting hooked herself, it was some so-called friend who had done it back in the 1970s, I believe.

However, one other drug my mother engaged in was drinking, and unfortunately I seem to be an alcoholic as she was, except I drink after 9pm at night, every night - only sometimes during the afternoon.

Why are you here if you haven't seen the movie yet?

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Geez! I just made my daughter promise me never to smoke.

Parents can be such idiots.

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I can see why you're crazy sometimes, Foe. Bit of a boozer. I won't take offense now, when you fly off the handle for someone talking bad about DS9.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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Do I tend to be most crazy at night, like 10pm to 1am, CJ? That would be why. I live in the UK, so just adjust for your own local time, and chances are I'll be a bit more tetchy around that time.

Why are you here if you haven't seen the movie yet?

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I'll say yes. By the time I read it.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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spoken like a true ignorant child.

in the 60's smoking was the rage. everyone did it, even doctors! smoking was allowed in most places, even high school classrooms.

the only thing GOOD that former Mike Bloomberg did was get rid of smoking in public places [bars].



and I have to say it... back then, very few people were overweight. there was no such thing as low-fat mayonnaise, turkey meatloaf/meatballs/hotdogs.

Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.

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and I have to say it... back then, very few people were overweight.


Smoking was advertised to women as a way to keep the weight off.

http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/sgr/2001/highlights/marketing/

As early as the 1920s, tobacco advertising geared toward women included messages such as "Reach for a Lucky instead of a sweet" to establish an association between smoking and slimness. The positioning of Lucky Strike as an aid to weight control led to a greater than 300% increase in sales for this brand in the first year of the advertising campaign.


And smoking got linked to women's lib.

In 1968, Philip Morris marketed Virginia Slims cigarettes to women with an advertising strategy showing canny insight into the importance of the emerging women's movement. The slogan "You've come a long way, Baby" later gave way to "It's a woman thing" in the mid-1990s, and more recently the "Find your voice" campaign featuring women of diverse racial and ethnic backgrounds. The underlying message of these campaigns has been that smoking is related to women's freedom, emancipation, and empowerment.


Amazing how some companies get us hooked on their very unhealthy products. Like McDonald's and their happy meals. Make sure the little ones associate McDonald's junk food with happiness and getting a new toy.

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I know! while researching for my previous post what was one of the slogans... pick up a lucky instead of a sweet?


trouble is... essentially they were right. smoking dulls the taste buds. so when you eat [especially something you absolutely adore]after you smoke a cigarette, it tastes different... bad, even. so you eat less of said food.

keep doing this and you'll lop off the pounds.





Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.

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trouble is... essentially they were right. smoking dulls the taste buds. so when you eat [especially something you absolutely adore]after you smoke a cigarette, it tastes different... bad, even. so you eat less of said food.

keep doing this and you'll lop off the pounds.


True, but it sure did come with a heavy price for a lot of women.

Anyway, in Symbiosis, I just wanted to strangle the two people who were living off the misery of others. I think people today should be shamed for working for cigarette companies, especially the higher up they are in the company, the more money they make. I'm a libertarian so I don't want to be of the mind that government is the solution to all our problems, but I'm fine with them taxing, suing cigarette companies so long as the money goes to hospitals that have to treat all these health problems cigarettes cause. And what of fast food/junk food that also cause so many health problems? Tax their products more as well? Then how about not taxing produce at all? And no more taxes on exercise equipment.

Now I'm not sure I can call myself libertarian anymore, LOL.

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yeah I know... when I was in health class they would say how smoking dulls the taste buds so you eat less...

all the time I am thinking... well it also dulls your lungs and lung function so you can hardly run/do any sort of physical work.

and so was the stupidity of the American public in the fifties...


Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.

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[deleted]

Don't worry, someone will make money off of you the same way. Will you keep your same attitude and accept it then?

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Yup.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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I worked with a woman, she passed away years ago, but she would be in her 80's now if she were alive, she said that her husband was told by his doctor when he was about 15 that smoking cigarettes would help with his asthma.
So he started smoking!

we need more diversity in sports. Where are the short, fat Asians!

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Doctors have come a long way in the last 40 or 50 years.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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Yes, it was right, but not for the right reasons. Because the government could've gotten after them decades prior to C. Everett Coop coming out with his warning labels on cigarette packages. Yes, smoking is not healthy, and yes, it can lead to cancer and other problems, but that's not why Congress and others went after them. Our government has known about all this since the 40s, but there was a war on or two (even longer if you consider what people already knew since the 18th Century). They went after them because they were competition.

We live in an oligarchy, not a democracy (because democracies/republics really don't exist, not in the way we have been taught). Oligarchs are merely people, in the public and private sector, with access to political power. And they're fiercely competitive for that power. That power mainly comes in the form of money, from government grants and loans, to regulatory clout, to getting laws passed to help you squeeze out any new or small competition, and other things.

Ever notice how every election cycle there's some new crusade for or against something? And the problems of whatever the cause never seem to really go away? Well, that's how a lot of politicians are elected, and how lobbying works. All of it has really nothing so much to do with the issue, but about politics itself. Any issue you may care about is nothing more than a chip in a game to these people, to be used as they see fit, and that's how it's played out. What you and I want means nothing to them. A few years may pass and a new crusade comes along and what was important just a few years ago is suddenly forgotten, like the dinner you ate last Friday.

And it's not as though Big Tobacco doesn't back every candidate they favor, whichever side of the aisle they're on. That really doesn't matter. One of the other oligarchs in this equation is Big Media, and they're always looking to rock the boat for any reason, if only to sell air or pulp. Again, this isn't so much to do with the health risks, which are real, but that's only to get the unwashed masses ginned up for whatever reason. It's just politics, not personal.

Oligarchies never make good, rational decisions for what's good for the nation, because they're not responsible for the nation. Not even the President. His primary job is to make sure the brokerage that is the US Government is functioning; everything else, from defense to civil management is secondary, meant more to keep the rest of us obedient.

I guarantee you that if our government really thought smoking was genuinely bad, in that they genuinely cared about lives, they'd have banned it by law decades if not centuries ago. Indeed, if they really were so hopped up against narcotic drugs, they not only would've proscribed it all by law, but you could bet that we'd not only promote religion as a means of deterring and treating the problem, but we would've gone to real war over any nation that mass produces it and smuggles it into our borders. People who grew pot or cooked meth would've found themselves on the business end of a government firearm, as China routinely does to any drug trafficker. Say what you want about Prohibition, one of the dark, dirty secrets about it was that it worked, in the sense that it made alcohol harder to get. Yes, it was bad; it was too popular to simply ban overnight as the Volstead Act did, and it led to the rise of organized crime figures such as Al Capone.

Never take whatever any government official says at face value, and I don't care what side of the aisle they're on. Unless he's a King, he's probably lying in some way. Most Monarchs have no problem telling their people the truth, because they're actually responsible for the nations they rule, even if many of them don't want to be.

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I I ow all about smoking. My dad's been battling cancer in and off for the last 10 years or so. Still smokes 4 packs a day. My mom quit, in the plus side, however.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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If you're dumb enough to buy cigs, then, I'd make money off of dopes.

I I ow all about smoking. My dad's been battling cancer in and off for the last 10 years or so. Still smokes 4 packs a day.




Lovely diss to your father, there...



Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.

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Well, he's being a dope. We all know it. Can't reach an old dog new tricks, I guess.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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but you don't diss your parents.

learn from their mistakes but you don't call them dope for it!

[gee, I wonder how we know about you licking the tv screens all those years ago...]


Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.

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How do you?

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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YOU TOLD US YOU MORON! now you are basically telling us you diss your father!

Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.

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I DON'T REMEMBER TELLING YOU, YOU MORON!! What likely happened was, I mentioned it on the board in which the movie it was that I was watching, and a jerk from, that board came here and told all you guys. So, no, I actually didn't tell YOU. And as far as my father, so? We tell him to his face, what a dope he's being every day, so.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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[deleted]

We live in an oligarchy, not a democracy (because democracies/republics really don't exist, not in the way we have been taught). Oligarchs are merely people, in the public and private sector, with access to political power. And they're fiercely competitive for that power. That power mainly comes in the form of money, from government grants and loans, to regulatory clout, to getting laws passed to help you squeeze out any new or small competition, and other things.

Ever notice how every election cycle there's some new crusade for or against something? And the problems of whatever the cause never seem to really go away? Well, that's how a lot of politicians are elected, and how lobbying works. All of it has really nothing so much to do with the issue, but about politics itself. Any issue you may care about is nothing more than a chip in a game to these people, to be used as they see fit, and that's how it's played out. What you and I want means nothing to them. A few years may pass and a new crusade comes along and what was important just a few years ago is suddenly forgotten, like the dinner you ate last Friday.

And it's not as though Big Tobacco doesn't back every candidate they favor, whichever side of the aisle they're on. That really doesn't matter. One of the other oligarchs in this equation is Big Media, and they're always looking to rock the boat for any reason, if only to sell air or pulp. Again, this isn't so much to do with the health risks, which are real, but that's only to get the unwashed masses ginned up for whatever reason. It's just politics, not personal.

Oligarchies never make good, rational decisions for what's good for the nation, because they're not responsible for the nation. Not even the President. His primary job is to make sure the brokerage that is the US Government is functioning; everything else, from defense to civil management is secondary, meant more to keep the rest of us obedient.

I guarantee you that if our government really thought smoking was genuinely bad, in that they genuinely cared about lives, they'd have banned it by law decades if not centuries ago. Indeed, if they really were so hopped up against narcotic drugs, they not only would've proscribed it all by law, but you could bet that we'd not only promote religion as a means of deterring and treating the problem, but we would've gone to real war over any nation that mass produces it and smuggles it into our borders. People who grew pot or cooked meth would've found themselves on the business end of a government firearm, as China routinely does to any drug trafficker. Say what you want about Prohibition, one of the dark, dirty secrets about it was that it worked, in the sense that it made alcohol harder to get. Yes, it was bad; it was too popular to simply ban overnight as the Volstead Act did, and it led to the rise of organized crime figures such as Al Capone.

Never take whatever any government official says at face value, and I don't care what side of the aisle they're on. Unless he's a King, he's probably lying in some way. Most Monarchs have no problem telling their people the truth, because they're actually responsible for the nations they rule, even if many of them don't want to be.




Nicely spoken Wylde if people only knew how bad exhaust fumes from a regular automobile were or that by standing in a traffic jam with your air-condition on for an hour will have you inhale the equivalent of half of packet of cigarettes per traffic jam would make things appear more into perspective when people are so militant about non-smoking.

As long as there is no law that prohibits cars from emitting dangerous compounds I won't quit smoking,what's the point when you live near a busy road or near a highway where you inhale those damaging compounds anyhow.

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Nicely spoken Wylde if people only knew how bad exhaust fumes from a regular automobile were or that by standing in a traffic jam with your air-condition on for an hour will have you inhale the equivalent of half of packet of cigarettes per traffic jam would make things appear more into perspective when people are so militant about non-smoking.

As long as there is no law that prohibits cars from emitting dangerous compounds I won't quit smoking,what's the point when you live near a busy road or near a highway where you inhale those damaging compounds anyhow.


So if you live near a highway, cigarette smoking won't cause any decline in your health? Your non-smoking neighbor is just as likely to get lung cancer or COPD? Not buying it.

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It wil have effects on your health sure but at least it is my own choice...

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So if you live near a highway, cigarette smoking won't cause any decline in your health? Your non-smoking neighbor is just as likely to get lung cancer or COPD? Not buying it.


I think his point was that so what if smoking is unhealthy for you. I smoke cigars occasionally, and that's my choice. I don't have nearly a problem with drugs for the same reason, though I don't oppose any measure that could get people help when they need it, but I prefer private charitable means more than any government means, since government isn't at all interested in helping people like this. The point here I was making was that government did not go after Big Tobacco for your health or mine. They did it for money, power.

You have to look at our government rather like a commodities exchange. I don't know if you've ever been to one, but most major American cities have them (not to mention every major city in the Western Hemisphere, China, and Japan). What they do is exchange commodities like gold, oil, iron and steel, agricultural products like sugar, wheat, livestock, all without actually having them on hand right there. Well, our government, not to mention the British, Japanese, Chinese, Australian, French, German, Italian, etc. trades in political power. Anywhere there is a legislature that is democratically elected, you have a power brokerage.

Here's how it works, in a small but common example. Say you want a new highway extension going by some land you own? The basic way to get that highway going through your area is merely to go to a Department of Transportation commission and ask for it. That usually doesn't work. So you have your lobbyists go and privately talk to Congressmen and other politicians and officials. One of the little secrets of being a Congressman is that a Congressman can practice insider trading, and not be prosecuted for it. So your lobbyist goes to these guys and, while they can't directly bribe them, they can mention that there is some really cheap land in such-and-such neck of the woods, and boy, think of how great it would be if a highway went through there? The next year, the appropriation is made in an Omnibus spending bill and voila! The highway is going where you want, and then you sell some of that property you own to various subsidiary corporations that happen to have major shareholders among certain members of Congress. They, in turn, either develop it or sell it to developers for a higher price.

When it came down to Tobacco, Big Law and Big Insurance lobbyists, among others, went to Congress, and they also went to the media with a lot of their own information on the health risks of Tobacco. A lot of hoopla was made, but what you didn't see were the deals that went along behind closed doors. While Big Tobacco was successfully sued for billions, most of that money went to lawyers, and insurance companies, all the while in various states you have tobacco taxes, and they, in turn, get circulated and laundered right back into the coffers of the Tobacco companies, in exchange for all the regulations on the sale and transport of tobacco products, mainly cigarettes. This didn't really have to do with the health risks, but about the money. Always follow the money. If Big Tobacco wasn't so big, likely as not nothing would've happened to them, just as nothing really happened to the Distillers and Brewers in the country post Prohibition.

You might not be aware, but until recently Cigars were very unregulated. Cigar makers were not part of all this. Just major Tobacco makers, who make cigarettes and chewing tobacco. It has, just recently, though.

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I mentioned Prohibition, and I think it's instructive to talk about that and to talk about how Activism works in America. In any Activist cause, you have basically three kinds of people involved: You have the Fire-eaters, who are the radicals, and they are usually the ones in charge of the movement; you have the Rank-and-File Activists, who may not really be so radical; and lastly you have the voters who support the cause, but they're not too heavily invested. The purpose of the latter two groups in any cause is to march and shout and give money and vote when the time comes, but whatever their opinions may be does not matter a bit to the leaders, so long as they're in lock-step with the cause.

Among the Dries (those who were in favor of Prohibition), most of them, being of the latter two groups, were not against beer and wine. They were concerned with hard, distilled spirits that was turning America into a "Nation of Drunkards," as one yellow newspaper of the day described it. They were as shocked as anyone else at the Volstead Act, which banned the sale, import, and distribution of ALL intoxicating beverages.

This is important because in any cause, the purpose of ginning up support is mainly political, not substantive. The radicals never have any scruples. They are a determined minority who know what they want, and are ruthless in getting it, and will not brook any opposition. Take any of today's subjects, such as same-sex marriage, man-made climate change, amnesty for illegals, health care, you name it; the ones who want government involved in some way are usually the ones who care the least for the people they purport to represent. Especially if they mean to change the status quo, regardless of how good or bad that quo may be.

The job of the media in all this is to help along with it all, and to get the public distracted just enough not to see what's really going on and why. This was the same way Prohibition was enacted. However, I give the Dries some credit; they managed to get a Constitutional Amendment passed, and that is really hard to do. But no political movement, whether its same-sex marriage or Black Lives Matter, is a genuine grassroots effort (you can usually tell by the professionally printed protest signs); they are well-funded by people with bigger agendas in mind. Not to say that you have to start wearing a tin-foil hat or anything, but even among some of these groups you'll find that the majority of them aren't exactly willing to have too much of that agenda passed too far. Those that favor, for instance, same-sex marriage don't want Christian businesses harassed and fined for their beliefs anymore than they want gays harassed and fined for their behaviors, and what's more a lot of them are concerned that the Activist leaders are not addressing the health issues involved with Sodomy that the CDC routinely puts out every other year.

For that reason I am always leery of any cause. I may agree with some of them, but I understand what these people are really after, and that's Power. They're oligarchs too, they just operate a little differently.

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I don't believe any substances should be banned. Prohibition was a failure and the war on drugs is just a huge waste of money.

One of the reasons people were calling for prohibition was because saloon culture was causing men to become alcoholics, spending most of their money at the saloon while the children at home were going hungry, and the wife powerless to do anything about it. There had to have been a better solution than outlawing alcohol, but what would that have been? Now women would divorce alcoholic husbands and get child support. Thankfully, today women are better able to financially care for themselves and their children.

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Saloon culture wasn't the issue. There had been saloons, taverns and pubs since antiquity. The issue was that the 18th and 19th Century, especially in America, brought into mass production distilled spirits. Prior, the hardest thing you could readily buy was porter lager, and that's clocking in roughly at 8-12% AV. Whiskey and rum generally starts at 20-30% AV and goes upward; vodka's roughly at 40% typically. America had become a culture of drunks, where it was commonplace for men to drink for anything. Start the morning, greet your friends, and have a drink. Seal a deal, have a drink. Arrive somewhere? Have a drink! Get a new job? Have a drink! Go to the toilet? Drink up!

I didn't say it wasn't a legitimate concern. Often times, Activists will take something relatively legitimate, and twist it to their own ends. Hence the Volstead Act prohibiting ALL intoxicating beverages, which most of the rank and file Dries were astonished at; they didn't really have an issue with beer and wine, just the hard stuff.

Incidentally, divorce wasn't and isn't a solution. It's more like a band-aid, but it isn't a solution. Taking away a man's children and forcing him into indentured servitude (alimony and child support) only erodes the necessity of marriage, and doesn't, at all, strengthen it. Because Marriage is a Sacrament, and you make your vows to God; for better or worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, until Death do you part. What divorce really did was turn wives into de-facto prostitutes and husbands into johns. You could always separate from your drunkard husband or abusive wife, while still staying married to them in the hopes they get help. By eroding the necessity of marriage, you also destroy the most powerful and most important segment of any society, the Family, which often is the most powerful political thing most ordinary people would ever have. It stabilizes both men and women, and creates a foundation for the upbringing of children to be brought up properly. Women really aren't doing so well raising children on their own without a husband in the home, as the male prison populations, with more than 80% of which brought up in fatherless homes, attest.

Oligarchs love divorce. It destabilizes society. Broken homes spend more money, and gives government a reason to grow in order to facilitate social welfare programs, encourage more laws, more law enforcement spending, not to mention all the wonderful law firms dedicated to separating couples through the kangaroo family court system.

So, no, it's not a solution; indeed, it's a gigantic problem. One, by the way, brought to us thanks to rampant malcontentious activism. You think feminist leaders really care about you or your children, sweetie? Think again.



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When spouses neglect their families, divorce should be an option. You don't get to not live up to your family obligations and there be no consequences. And BTW, alcoholics are often also verbally and physically abusive.

There is no god. No invisible sky daddy is going to get upset over a divorce.

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exactly! the way the world has run for the past few hundred years with parents of married adults 'being heartbroken' over even the thought of divorce to 'what would god say?' crap is just that... crap.

I am sure prissy parents and this so called 'god' [aka Ariel's daddy] are not going to be happy when their adult, married daughter dies at the hands of their husband'.

Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.

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Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! Respect, ladies. God with a capital G. We're not talking about a god, we're talking about the Lord, your God.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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the Lord, your God.


this is what pisses me the most off about organized religion. what even makes anyone in the world thinks that YOUR god is MY god? or should be my god???


Take a look at the world today and honestly ask whether a kind and loving 'god' is in control upstairs..... I say no.

Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.

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[deleted]

There is no god. Yahweh was made up just like all the other deities. He's only in religious people's collective imagination.

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[deleted]

And you watch a TV show created by an atheïst who rejected the idea of a God it seems like you are preaching for the wrong parish here. 

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you shouldn't be even watching this show! you are sinning by watching it.




Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.

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you shouldn't be even watching this show! you are sinning by watching it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nf_Y4MbUCLY&list=RDNf_Y4MbUCLY

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"The fool has said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that does good." Psalm 14:1


The person who wrote that thought the earth was flat and that seizures were nothing more than demon possession.

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The person who wrote that thought the earth was flat and that seizures were nothing more than demon possession.


Actually, David, like most of his contemporaries of the time, knew the world was round, sweetie. How did they know? Observation; you can see the Earth's shadow on the Moon, for starters, and the fact that if you do enough traveling, which David did, you could figure out that the Earth was not at all flat.

And no, they didn't think that seizures were nothing more than demonic possession. A very scant few were and are today, but even back then it took considerable and careful observation to know the difference. People were a lot smarter back then than they are today.

Even if they did think in such ways, it doesn't change the truth of the statement. People who do not believe in God tend to be very corrupt, untrustworthy people. It comes down to mindset. An entitled mindset who thinks that the world was made for his pleasure tends to be a very abominable person. Those who think they'll be held to account for what they do in this life, a life that was given to them by the One who created them, tend to behave much better for the wear. True, nobody's perfect.

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David did not know the earth wasn't flat. Even the NT Christians thought the earth was flat.

There is no such thing as demon possession because demons don't exist. Back then illness were associated with demons. They didn't understand illnesses so they blamed demons.

So no, "man of God" has ever murdered anyone? If only that was true, history would look a lot different.

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People who do not believe in God tend to be very corrupt, untrustworthy people. It comes down to mindset. An entitled mindset who thinks that the world was made for his pleasure tends to be a very abominable person.

Not believing in god and believing that the world was made for your pleasure are two radically different things.

Those who think they'll be held to account for what they do in this life, a life that was given to them by the One who created them, tend to behave much better for the wear.

That rather depends on what you think your god expects from you. The 9/11 hijackers were religious men. As was Hitler, for that matter. Historically, many religious believers have been able to justify pretty much anything they wanted to do by convincing themselves that god authorised or mandated it.


--
If I could stop a rapist from raping a child I would. That's the difference between me and god.

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That rather depends on what you think your god expects from you. The 9/11 hijackers were religious men. As was Hitler, for that matter. Historically, many religious believers have been able to justify pretty much anything they wanted to do by convincing themselves that god authorised or mandated it.


I have said it before and I'll say it again... all the wars were religion driven. NOW do you bible thumpers see what religion has done to the world???

Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.

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People who do not believe in God tend to be very corrupt, untrustworthy people. It comes down to mindset. An entitled mindset who thinks that the world was made for his pleasure tends to be a very abominable person. Those who think they'll be held to account for what they do in this life, a life that was given to them by the One who created them, tend to behave much better for the wear.


Literally, not a single word there bears any resemblance to reality. Quite simply, that is bigoted nonsense and the entitlement is coming from you.

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People who do not believe in God tend to be very corrupt, untrustworthy people
More corrupt than the Catholic church charging money to get people out of purgatory? More untrustworthy than the priests molesting little boys? More corrupt than all the commanders in all the wars waged in the name of religion?

An entitled mindset who thinks that the world was made for his pleasure tends to be a very abominable person.
Genesis 1:26 contradicts this:
"Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
Sounds like it's the believers who think the world was created for them. And you're right. It does lead to an entitled mindset.

tends to be a very abominable person
Judgement. Christians aren't supposed to do that.

Those who think they'll be held to account for what they do in this life
Right, because behaving because something bad will happen if you don't is more virtuous than behaving just because it's the right thing to do. 

a life that was given to them by the One who created them
Mom and dad?

tend to behave much better for the wear.
Like the greedy, rapist Catholics and warmongers I already mentioned?

If that helps you sleep at night, brah...

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---Like the greedy, rapist Catholics and warmongers I already mentioned-----

Catholics are rapists?
I have a high extended family, as far as I know none of them are rapists.
I think you'll need proof for this. Can you attach a link?

we need more diversity in sports. Where are the short, fat Asians!

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I think you'll need proof for this. Can you attach a link?
Certainly.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/whats-the-state-of-the-churchs-child-abuse-crisis/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/20/insider/sex-abuse-and-the-catholic-church-why-is-it-still-a-story.html?_r=0

http://www.nytimes.com/topic/organization/roman-catholic-church-sex-abuse-cases

http://www.bbc.com/news/10407559

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-25757218

http://bishop-accountability.org/priestdb/PriestDBbylastName-A.html

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Do they rape people because they are Catholic?
You want to list rapists.
List Muslims first.
See Sweden, the new rape capital of the world!!!

we need more diversity in sports. Where are the short, fat Asians!

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Do they rape people because they are Catholic?
No, I think they're drawn to Catholicism because they are rapists.

Not that it makes any real difference. Nothing I've said has anything to do with Muslims (who also believe in God) and Sweden.

So....huh?

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I think


well there you are, then...



and seriously, are you saying that ALL Catholics force others to have sex??? Nuns?

and Muslims apply Catholics idea and attributes of god to Allah. both M and C view God as all powerful, all knowing and all present. this still does not mean that they believe in the same being. {Jewish and Catholics DO believe in the same being.} Christianity is big on the trinity [three beings in one god -- father, son, holy ghost] something that the Muslims don't acknowledge, just as the Jews don't acknowledge how Jesus is the son of God.


Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.

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and seriously, are you saying that ALL Catholics force others to have sex??? Nuns?
Nope. Never once said that.

and Muslims apply Catholics idea and attributes of god to Allah. both M and C view God as all powerful, all knowing and all present. this still does not mean that they believe in the same being.
Again, I never said that.

Jewish and Catholics DO believe in the same being.} Christianity is big on the trinity [three beings in one god -- father, son, holy ghost] something that the Muslims don't acknowledge, just as the Jews don't acknowledge how Jesus is the son of God.
Irrelevant to the discussion.

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and seriously, are you saying that ALL Catholics force others to have sex??? Nuns?


Nope. Never once said that
.

actually, when you don't write many, most, some... you mean all. so you DID write that, essentially.

and Muslims apply Catholics idea and attributes of god to Allah. both M and C view God as all powerful, all knowing and all present. this still does not mean that they believe in the same being.


Again, I never said that.


again, when you say
Muslims (who also believe in God
you mean they believe in the same god. see? without clarification and explicit speech[Muslims have adopted Catholics view and attributes of Catholic God to Allah, THEIR God], you come across as a complete imbecile.

and since you mentioned how apparently Muslims believe in God, my trinity thing IS relevant as I just blew your case out of the water.


Oh God. Fortune vomits
on my eiderdown once more.

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actually, when you don't write many, most, some... you mean all. so you DID write that, essentially.
My bad. Between simple context clues, common sense, and looking at the links I posted, I didn't think anyone would be so confused as to have to put words in my mouth.

What case did you blow out of the water? The poster I initially replied to said people who don't believe are corrupt and untrustworthy. I shined a light on the hypocrisy there, by highlighting corrupt and untrustworthy believers. I'm not even the one who brought Muslims into this discussion. But that doesn't change the fact that they believe in god...maybe not your god, but their god.

actually, when you don't write many, most, some... you mean all. so you DID write that, essentially.
And this statement is absolutely ignorant. Don't reply to what you think I essentially wrote. Stick to what I did write.

It will make me take you seriously.

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but that is the thing... I have been brought up in college and graduate to write with words like many/most/some because it is wrong to say all or none. that isn't fair to those few who don't fall into the category of whatever it is you are writing about.

If I write "anyone who fidgets has ADHD and needs to be on medicine" I am both ignorant and wrong and actually punishable by law, since I am not a neurologist.

someone who fidgets could just be giving you a signal that you're as boring as fvk! 😃 that is actually a signal I gave to someone who was as boring as fck and he told me I had ADHD... and he was no neurologist either!




Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.

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You say that like I said anyone who is Catholic (which includes most of my family, and, from-time-to-time, myself)is a rapist.

I didn't.

And you know that.

I said:

More corrupt than the Catholic church charging money to get people out of purgatory? More untrustworthy than the priests molesting little boys?
If you're this confused by that statement, maybe you should go back to college. 👍

Notice how you seem to be the only one confused about what I said? That might mean something...

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I was brought up catholic too. and I am not confused. how can the church charge money to get people out of purgatory -- the apparent place between heaven and hell-- the minimum security prison as I call it?

and I totally agree with you about the priests. but, see, again... not all priests molest boys, so those who don't molest them are immediately in the dog house because of these other guys.

the corruptness and the do as I say not as I do crap is one of the MANY reasons why I left. I actually didn't realize how shi77y the catholic religion is with its 'acknowledging its gay cousins [jesus was born jewish is one of the MANY things we refuse to discuss]' until I went to a protestant/Lutheran college.

and that is exactly what 'jesus was born jewish' is... a gay cousin in the religion. it is apparently something embarrassing to us. like how Adolph hitler was Catholic [I mean, duh! but how can I associate with that?].


Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.

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I was brought up catholic too. and I am not confused. how can the church charge money to get people out of purgatory -- the apparent place between heaven and hell-- the minimum security prison as I call it?
http://www.aol.com/article/2009/02/10/buy-your-way-to-heaven-the-catholic-church-brings-back-indulgen/1455700/

https://ivarfjeld.com/2011/11/04/catholic-author-raises-two-million-to-get-souls-out-of-purgatory/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indulgence

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/16/vatican-indulgences-pope-francis-tweets

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/the-reformation/roman-catholic-church-in-1500/

http://catholicbridge.com/catholic/indulgences.php

http://www.christianitytoday.com/history/issues/issue-14/selling-forgiveness-how-money-sparked-protestant.html

How can they do this, you ask? Well, it all starts with people believing in a god that requires religion...Then set up said religion around the idea of being rewarded for not sinning, and then charge people who have sinned so that they can be rewarded too. I don't know. I stopped with all this nonsense...probably close to 10 years ago now.



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Watch the movie Spotlight Nak it will enlighten you and it will show you that the abuse happened on a large scale and for a very long time(we are talking about tens of thousands of cases globally we know of).

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Spotlight is a wonderful movie.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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Catholics are rapists?
I have a high extended family, as far as I know none of them are rapists.
I think you'll need proof for this. Can you attach a link?


No one said all Catholics, just the ones that used their religion to enrich themselves, wage war, and molest boys.

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No one said all Catholics


actually, that IS what this PC poster is implying... without the inclusion of some/many/most/#%#/ that means all.


and what is wrong with enriching yourself?

Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.

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and what is wrong with enriching yourself?


Religion shouldn't be used to enrich one's self.

Hillsong church parody - praise the lord song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEAWPcbTw8k

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Sure as it may be, that is not indicative of Catholic teaching, sweetie. You have to learn to separate what evil men and women may do for what the teaching says.

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Blasphemer! You are going to hell, Ruby.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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Then you'd be wrong. And God. Capital G.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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whose to say who is wrong over who is 'driving the bus' of the world? srsly, there is no god. if children can die of cancer then god does not exist.

Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.

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God doesn't have time for sick and dying children. He's too busy worrying about people who don't capitalize the word "god" on the internet.

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God doesn't have time for sick and dying children. He's too busy worrying about people who don't capitalize the word "god" on the internet.


Yahweh was too preoccupied with period blood and seminal emissions. Apparently they made him squeamish.

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False. God does, but what are you doing about it? See, God made you too. And He made you to do something, anything, about the problems within your arms reach.

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By that logic, nobody would die........

we need more diversity in sports. Where are the short, fat Asians!

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so by your logic, you think children should die?



Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.

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---so by your logic, you think children should die? ---
I don't think anyone should die.
My grandmother had 15 children and I don't actually know how many grand children and great grand children and maybe great great grandchildren when she died. I wish she was still alive.
What is the difference between my grandmother and a child?



we need more diversity in sports. Where are the short, fat Asians! o

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did I say that your grandmother deserved to die? [you brought her up so the answer is a big, whopping NO]

all I said is that children DON'T deserve to die of cancer!

and if you are seriously pitting your grandmother against even one innocent child, thinking that one is more deserving of life than the other, that thinking is demented.



Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.

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----and if you are seriously pitting your grandmother against even one innocent child, thinking that one is more deserving of life than the other, that thinking is demented. ----

You said that if there was a God children wouldn't die.
I'm not putting anyone against anyone.
I was pointing out that it doesn't seem fair that anyone has to die.
You brought up a child dying and I pointed out the 'other end of the spectrum'.

You are the one pitting children dying as somehow more than an adult.


we need more diversity in sports. Where are the short, fat Asians!

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so you think children who have yet to live their lives should die over someone who is 90?

still doesn't make sense.


I agree with you that no one HAS to die but I just don't see how god can exist when he calls SO MANY CHILDREN to die of horrible and painful diseases. no child should die of cancer much less know what it is or what it feels like.

that is all I am saying.


Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.

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When spouses neglect their families, divorce should be an option. You don't get to not live up to your family obligations and there be no consequences. And BTW, alcoholics are often also verbally and physically abusive.


No, it shouldn't. Yes, everyone has problems, to some degree or another, but that's still no excuse for divorce, because divorce is a legal fiction. The vows say "until death do you part." It doesn't say, "until abuse do you part," or "until infidelity do you part," or whatever. Divorce does not solve the problem, and in fact encourages an entitlement attitude on the part of each spouse that they shouldn't have at all.

Look up someone named Saint Monica of Hippo. Monica was married to a Roman pagan named Patricius, and he was a complete lout, who abused her, cheated on her constantly, and was a drunk, by accounts. She could've divorced from him, but she didn't. She was a devout Christian, and she prayed for her family constantly. She had three children, her eldest, Augustine, was very much like his father, and he fell into Manicheanism (a Dualistic Cult), had a child out of wedlock, and was just a party animal. When he fell ill, Monica had convinced Patricius to have Augustine baptized, and thanks to her perseverance, Augustine converted to the faith, and became one of humanity's greatest thinkers, St. Augustine of Hippo.

Santa Monica, California is named after her today. She is the Patron Saint of Disappointing Marriages, Disappointing Children, victims of abuse and adultery, and the conversion of relatives.

Does this mean you as a woman or I as a man have to persevere in marriage? Yes, if we truly love the one we married. Love is more than a feeling; it's a verb that means to do what is best for the beloved, even if that means your perpetual suffering in this life. Nobody gets out of this world without suffering. It's just the way it is.

There is no god. No invisible sky daddy is going to get upset over a divorce.


Saint Monica would disagree with you. Further, it doesn't change the fact that if you make a vow, you're putting your life in your own hands. Divorce only demonstrates complete untrustworthiness to those who agree to it.

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You tell them, Wylde!! Heathens!

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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[deleted]

Monica probably had a martyr complex (like a lot of those early Christians) and was abused even after her husband's conversion. No, you don't get to abuse people and get away with it. If I married a man who abuses me, I don't care what I said, I'm getting out. Better to break vows than to be abuse, or dead. It's disturbing that you would advocate women staying with their abusers. In fact, it's warped.

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And what does it take to really be a true martyr? Don't be a moron. She loved her husband more than he could ever know. Love is not a mere feeling. It is doing what is best for the beloved. If you think you're entitled to whatever's pleasant and fine and comforting, I'm afraid you're not only wrong, but as wrong as wrong can be. Monica loved her family more than YOU love yours. What does that say about you, and what you want?

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Yes, everyone has problems, to some degree or another, but that's still no excuse for divorce, because divorce is a legal fiction.

Divorce is indeed a legal fiction. But then, so is marriage.

Does this mean you as a woman or I as a man have to persevere in marriage? Yes

No, actually it doesn't. It just means there's a book in which there's a story about a woman didn't divorce her abusive husband and in some respects it turned out well. I could just as easily spin a story about a woman who stayed with her abusive husband and he murdered her.

Either way, the fact is that forcing a person to remain married to an abusive spouse is a moral wrong.

, if we truly love the one we married.

And what if we don't? People fall in love all the time, and people fall out of love all the time. For what reason should a person remain married to a person they don't love, especially if that person is abusive towards them?

Saint Monica would disagree with you.

Let her make an argument to support her case, and if it's a good one I will care. Until then it's just an argument from authority.

Further, it doesn't change the fact that if you make a vow, you're putting your life in your own hands. Divorce only demonstrates complete untrustworthiness to those who agree to it.

So what? People are not required to meet your standards of trustworthiness, nor should they be so required.


--
If I could stop a rapist from raping a child I would. That's the difference between me and god.

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Divorce is indeed a legal fiction. But then, so is marriage.


Wrong. Only if the marriage itself never took place, for certain and specific reasons (like one partner is the same sex as another, or one partner was too young to accept such a vow, or one partner was already married, or one partner was not truly a Christian, etc.), then a marriage does take place. Sorry.

No, actually it doesn't. It just means there's a book in which there's a story about a woman didn't divorce her abusive husband and in some respects it turned out well. I could just as easily spin a story about a woman who stayed with her abusive husband and he murdered her.

Either way, the fact is that forcing a person to remain married to an abusive spouse is a moral wrong.


It's not merely a story, but a fact. And further, what does it say about someone who doesn't respect a vow if they are willing to abrogate it on the slightest pretext that has nothing to do with the vow itself? Don't be a moron. Words have meaning.

Let her make an argument to support her case, and if it's a good one I will care. Until then it's just an argument from authority.


The supreme authority from all which it comes from. Okay.

So what? People are not required to meet your standards of trustworthiness, nor should they be so required.


All people are required, but just because they don't think so doesn't mean they aren't. Don't be stupid. If you make a vow, you're telling someone that you're personal honor and integrity as a human being and as a soul is at stake. It doesn't matter if the other participant violates that, what matters is what you do.

Otherwise, what's the point of marriage in the first place? Why should not only anyone get married, but why should any man be obligated in anyway to support the bastards he puts forth into this world? Why should anyone be obligated to pay alimony? Take a fence down and watch what trouble it brings. Secularism breeds the kind of evil even you don't want to see. Don't be a moron.

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A spouse who neglects or abuses his/her family, and refuses to change, should be kicked to the curb. That person wasn't honoring his/her marriage vows. You can't expect people to stay with those who abuse them, it could lead to murder.

Look at the history of Christian Europe. I'll take secularism.

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I agree with you there, Rube.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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And all those couples hating each other but not getting a divorce (for one reason or another)would have spared us an awful lot of country&western songs featuring men having troubles with their wives and vice versa. 

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We'd still have songs with people bitching about their romantic partners.

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But it would have been a lot less songs though Ruby.

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[deleted]

https://youtu.be/HY6ghH8ax1I?t=8s

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King James (1566-1625) VI of Scotland (1567-1625) and I of England (1603-1625) presided at the North Berwick Witch Trials and wrote Daemonologie (1597) to explain the need for witch trials and thus seems misguided on the subject of witch craft.

He also wrote A Counterblaste to Tobacco(1604) that was one of the earliest anti-tobacco publication. That was 360 years before the surgeon general's report on the dangers of smoking.

It is also rumored that Nazi doctors found proof of smoking's health dangers but their report was not publicized by the US government after the war at the urging of US tobacco companies.

Rubyhypatia wrote above that many people start smoking when they are adolescents and don't think about the dangers of smoking and then become addicted very fast. That is true.

But many other other people start smoking when they are pre adolescent children even less likely to worry about the dangers in the distant future and get addicted very fast. For example, a few years ago I overheard one of my brothers tell someone he started smoking when he was eleven. Drew Barrymore smoked at age nine.

One thing that I really like about Star Trek is that nobody smokes in Star trek.

In Frederick Pohl's classic story "The Children of Night" the narrator's public relations agency has some very unpopular clients including the Arcturians who just fought a space war with Earth and the last cigarette company, in the future setting that is probably sometime about now.

In E.E. Smith's Lensman series the forces of Boskone attack the galactic federation of the protagonists with fleets of millions of space battleships and also by drug running various illegal and deadly but addictive drugs to weaken and undermine the federation of the protagonists. It is somewhat bitterly amusing that even though tobacco is a deadly and very addictive drug it is perfectly legal in their galactic federation and the smoking (and thus presumably nicotine addicted) protagonists look on those addicted to Boskone's illegal drugs with pity and contempt.


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In Frederick Pohl's classic story "The Children of Night" the narrator's public relations agency has some very unpopular clients including the Acturians who just fought a space war with Earth and the last cigarette company, in the future setting that is probably sometime about now.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEnoLnq8OZg

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Cigarettes are bad, m'kay? End of the story.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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Spelling of Arcturians corrected. I also corrected "itch trials" to "witch trials".

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I suffered through the itch trials.

Over 20,001 Tacos Returned...AS GARBAGE!

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---I suffered through the itch trials. ---/
😳
You're not supposed to tell people!!!!


we need more diversity in sports. Where are the short, fat Asians!

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This thread is making me crave a cigarette.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky1HiwZjYKE

lighting one up now. 

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Smoking is the worst. Not only does it ruin your health, but the health of everyone around you.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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I only smoke at home or the designated smoking areas or when I am outside and not in the direct company of non-smokers.So I am quite considerate with people who don't smoke and I usually ask before I light up.So the media has to stop portraying smokers as inconsiderate A-holes because in truth most smokers I know are very considerate and do everything they can not to bother others with their craving for nicotine.As a matter of fact it usually are former smokers and now militant anti-smokers who spoil our little convienance when they start to complain about smoking in a smoking designated area.

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I agree with you. there are people in society who are much worse than 'smokers'. I never thought smokers were inconsiderate aholes to begin with, at least not them as a whole.

I smoke on occasion. I know what it does but sometimes after one of those days, who gives a shi7? I'd rather smoke a rollie once in a while than drink myself into a stupor every night like some people...



Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.

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And smoking is only a factor in cancers also dieet plays a very important role because there have been reported cases of the oldest people in the world Japan,in several cases of these 100plus year old people there have been cases of people smoking a pack of cigarettes a day since their teens and having a big helping of Saké every evening without having any forms of cancer.And since we in our highly industrialised western food industry with processed foods and meats,too much carbohydrates and saturated fats is probably a bigger factor in the formation cancer than smoking.Add to that the use of growth hormones,gen- foods etc and you seriously start to ask yourself if you are not slowly poisoning yourself?Also FYI the first to start a non smoking campaign was Adolf ff-in Hitler (who also was a vegetarian and environmentalist btw)

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I like you a little less now, Nex. Lol


RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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Sorry. Smoking is gross, and I hate it.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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Well If you mind the smoking I won't smoke when I am around you see very simple we don't need laws and all that crap to take care of that.

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Both my parents smoke. Well, my mom quit, but my dad smokes 4 packs a day, and in the house and enclosed areas and everything. He doesn't care one bit.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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Buy your dad an E-cigarette CJ although opinions how safe they are vary but four packets is a lot I maybe smoke 10 cigarettes a day and when I am busy less,when I go out and have drink more but that doesn't happen too often and in most bars there is a non smoking policy so usually it's fun and cosy just outside the bar(where the smokers are)and it's a bit dull inside (lol).

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[deleted]

One after another, constantly from 6 o'clock in the morning until around 8 Or so, when he goes to bed.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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My mom died from complications of COPD from second hand smoke. Personally, I've never smoked (cigarettes...however I did go to college ).

My philosophy nowadays is that anything is okay in moderation and anything is bad in excess. A glass of wine a day or a slice of cheesecake a week is fine. But nicotine is pretty addictive and known to be bad for your body, so my choice is to just avoid it.

Over 20,001 Tacos Returned...AS GARBAGE!

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I'm a freaky health nut and have been for the most part since I was 13 years old.
I had cancer and now when I see obese people and people smoking it makes me mad sort of.
I did nothing to poison myself-cancer. These other people seem to be TRYING to kill them selves- nothing.
However, some people that had cancer go on to live very long afterwards.😀

we need more diversity in sports. Where are the short, fat Asians!

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I've reached the point in my life where I would rather eat a small portion of something really good than a whole buffet full of average food. But it seems like most restaurants are into really large portions.

Over 20,001 Tacos Returned...AS GARBAGE!

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I just have a problem with all these obese people who are on the dole and then spend what money they do have on things that aren't necessities... like beer and ciggies.

I feel for you Nak with your cancer diagnosis, as I have been diagnosed myself [fine now] but the effects of how you got it/after you get rid of it still linger.

and I am totally with you on these idle asstwats who look like they spend all their time trying to kill themselves only not to. My aunt broke her neck the same places as Christopher Reeve did his and she was not paralyzed [thank god]. but she was still stuck in that christmas tree contraption while she healed all the while having my uncle [her husband] ailing with the effects of a stroke. My aunt and uncle were lovely people and they both died whereas my other aunt who is the devil incarnate lives in a sterile bubble. nothing bad happens to her. [another reason why I hate god]

Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.

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There's no sense hating an imaginary being. Life has always been cruel, and no perfect all-powerful being is behind it. At least 95% of all species that have ever lived on this planet are now extinct, so many died off in mass extinction events. What deity would keep creating life only to kill so much of it off?

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let me back up. I was brought up to believe in him. now I think he is, as you say, imaginary. I have thought this and things along this line for a long while, like since I was 10. I once asked my mom 'if we believe in one god and how this one god really is the creator of all things, then where did the American Indians get their gods from?'

and she had no real answer which I then added: so how do we know we are following 'the right god'?

she freaked out. I wasn't challenging her at all, at 10 years old I was just so 'what the hell?' with the reality of life. life wasn't bad back then, not by a long shot, but when you are being taught about the American Indians and their worship things, and other things you start to think.




Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.

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That's the problem, when you start to think. Religious leaders don't want you to think, they will think for you, tell you what to believe, and don't you question it.

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that's the problem for religion. I don't think thinking is the problem. the sad this is all those drones we have out there. storm troopers and BORG, they all are.

Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.

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that's the problem for religion. I don't think thinking is the problem. the sad this is all those drones we have out there. storm troopers and BORG, they all are.


That's what I mean. The more people start thinking for themselves, the less power religion has over our lives.

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[deleted]

I would have to say that I agree with your dad, x.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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and my dad called me an idiot.


Won't he feel stupid when little green man land on the lawn of The White House. 👽

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I lost my religion about a decade ago by examining the Bible skeptically, and not just believing it because I was told to with the threat of damnation if I didn't believe. The creation and flood account goes against science, same with the Exodus and the conquest of Canaan. Mosaic law doesn't make sense coming from a perfect being as it is barbaric. Prophecies didn't come true. Science in the Bible is wrong. In fact, what makes perfect sense is that the Bible was written by ancient, ignorant men who made stuff up to suit their interests.

Interesting my perspective now, the men I used to look up to as having special knowledge, I now see as ignorant and close-minded.

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Guess you never heard of faith, huh?

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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You mean that song by George Michael? 

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Guess you never heard of faith, huh?


Islamic extremists have faith, so did the Crusaders. Jim Jones followers as well.

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Islamic extremists have faith, so did the Crusaders. Jim Jones followers as well.


Don't drink the Cool Aid ,Cool Aid is bad M'kay.

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Guess you never heard of faith, huh?


Faith in what? whether someone who may exist or not will magically erase your 'sins' each week or not? whether all the good you do will buy you a ticket into 'heaven' or not? whether all the crap you endured from others was worth it? did those douchebags ever get theirs?


I'll believe it when I see it.

Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.

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-----I lost my religion about a decade ago by examining the Bible skeptically, and not just believing it because I was told to with the threat of damnation if I didn't believe. ----
******
😀
I have been Wiccan since I was about 26.
But now i am turning toward the Bible.
I even got rid of all of my witchy books except my Book Of Shadows.

I am deplorable # 422,893!

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Read the book of Joshua and ask yourself why a compassionate being would command people to commit such atrocities.

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You're all ignorant heathens.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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you are worshipping some deity who might or might not exist. and the bible was written by man so chew on that.

ps: why don't you pray to your god to help you with your doppelganger problem?



Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.

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Uh...the Lord has more important issues to worry about than a bunch of wackos on the internet. Lol. They're all in ignore anyway. They don't faze me.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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I have been Wiccan since I was about 26.
But now i am turning toward the Bible.
I even got rid of all of my witchy books except my Book Of Shadows.


Burn the witch!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2xlQaimsGg

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Burn her at the stake!

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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Omg!!!!
I'm so scared!!!!
And I feel bad, I like ducks!!!!

I am deplorable # 422,893!

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What do like about ducks in particular Nak?.

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They are cute.
We had ducks when I was young.
Wild ducks are very interesting in the different ways they take flight, swim, rear their young.
They are beautiful in their colorful varieties.

I am deplorable # 422,893!

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You are a woman of unusual interests and hobbies Nak.

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😀
Because I like ducks!??
lol.
Google them! They are very interesting, you'll see!!!
Hillary, the Original Birther since 2008!

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I know a little about ducks Nak ,no not just because of the Ducks alone I mean the other things making an unusual combination and all.

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Nexus, everyone has various interests don't they?
I don't feel that I different than too many people really.
I'll bet you have a lot of various interests too😀

Hillary, the Original Birther since 2008!

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A lot and very varied Nak but it seems I have very different tastes and interests than regular people and would call your interests and tastes hardly regular(military background,fencing,classical music,Siberian huskies,ducks,Don Mateo etc etc).

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I just go with the premise that all people are weird.
So we're all the same!😊
Hillary, the Original Birther since 2008!

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That's a great premise Nak I guess I like weird. 

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I think life is too short to not get into anything you think might be interesting.
(Well, in general) I'm not a freak. Not into freaks.
As long as it doesn't harm anyone......
Ohhhh like the Wiccan rede!


Hillary, the Original Birther since 2008!

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Jim Morrison was once married to a Wiccan witch I believe

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Look what that got him. Lol.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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[deleted]

Science been wrong before. The Bible stood the test of time.


No, the Bible has not stood the test of time. There is no way Earth is less than ten thousand years old. Humanity didn't come from one man who lived only 6-10 thousand years ago. There was no global flood, no exodus of over a million people out of Egypt who wandered the Sinai wilderness for 40 years, and no conquest of Canaan by those people. Science is the best way to understand our universe, not reading some ancient writings of men who thought the Earth was flat and seizures was demon possession.

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How do you know none of that happened, Ruby? You weren't there. Keep talking like this and you will end up bathing in fire for all of eternity.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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Science has proven that Earth, the universe, and humanity are much older than what it says in the Bible. Archaeology disproves both the Exodus account and the conquest of Canaan. Geology disproves a global flood.

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They used to not think washing your hands for hygiene was important, it's in the bible that it is important.
They used to think that there were 1100 stars in the sky, the bible says millions upon millions,



Hillary, the Original Birther since 2008!

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Where in the Bible does it say to wash your hands multiple times a day? Who ever said there were only 1100 stars in the sky?

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Why are you such an atheist? Man! Faith, Rube.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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you care, WHY?

Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.

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I care for her and your mortal soul. You're all gonna end up in hell, you keep talking the way you are.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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Because no religion makes sense. Science makes sense.

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Religion doesn't provide us with answers with the growing world population and dwindling natural resources,climate change,etc science has the potential (and in some cases already has answers but are held back by politics or sheer lack of will)to provide us with answers for the future problems mankind faces,religion in certain cases(population)is part of the problem.

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Religion provides me with all the answers I need.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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I caI care for her and your mortal soul. You're all gonna end up in hell, you keep talking the way you are. re for her and your mortal soul. You're all gonna end up in hell, you keep talking the way you are.


The concept of Hell in the Bible was inspired by the Greeks' Tartarus, the deep abyss far below Hades where the wicked were sent to suffer after death. I don't fear what ancient men made up in order to scare people into believing in their silly religion.

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Religion provides me with all the answers I need.


The wrong answers.

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[deleted]

Nex
It probably does.
I am not all that well read on the bible though.
But I'll bet it does. You'd be surprised.
Have you read the bible. I am surprised by some of th stuff that is in it. It seems to be addressing modern problems often times.


Hillary, the Original Birther since 2008!

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Made up? I got a question. Did you ever tell someone to go to hell? Yes or no?

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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No, the correct answers, you Godless heathen! Do a little soul searching. You'll be surprised what you may find, Rube.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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No, the correct answers, you Godless heathen! Do a little soul searching.
Claiming you have all of the answers and calling people "heathens" indicates that you haven't done much "soul searching" yourself. Out of curiosity, have you looked into any philosophies or religions aside from what you were taught?

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Religious people aren't taught to be skeptical of their own religion, they're just supposed to accept it without question. Even the Bible says, "Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding."

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Oh, I question it. But, I still believe, and pray, and go to church every week.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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Oh, I question it.


No you don't.

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Nope. I'm Catholic. The only true religion.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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Tell that to the unbelievers, Ruby, and Deem, Nak.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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I was raised Catholic, as well. and I was a mere child when I began to wonder if our religion was the only 'true' religion. I mean, what is this bullchit of Jesus being baptized by John the Baptist at the age of 30? what is this nonsense that Judaism came first but God didn't like what the Jews were doing so he sent Jesus down to set them straight? Why do we conveniently forget that Jesus was born Jewish?

why don't we say 'He descended into Hell' when we say the Apostle's/Nicene Creed? Why do we think we are reciting the Apostle's Creed when it is in fact the Nicene Creed?

there are so many WHY's in this religion that I want to blow my brains out.

Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.

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All those too difficult to answer questions plus Jesus being portrayed too much as a normal man were edited out of the bible during the 1st council of Nicea in 325 AD.

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I am not all that well read on the bible though.
But I'll bet it does. You'd be surprised.
Have you read the bible. I am surprised by some of th stuff that is in it. It seems to be addressing modern problems often times.



Well maybe the problems you mentioned aren't modern but are old that is because the nature of mankind.We seem to keep on making the same mistakes over and over again and people don't seem to learn from the invaluable lessons history can provide if you are willing to study them.Maybe by learning from what caused things in the past can help us prevent them from happening again.Plus the bibble uses a lot generalities and metaphores that can be explained in multiple ways that the explanation will fit the metaphore easily.

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Don't tell me what I do and do not do, ma'am!

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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If you had truly questioned the Bible, you wouldn't believe its nonsense. You wouldn't be taking the words of ancient men over scientists.

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Not to mention if he truly questioned it he would be a little more open minded to people who aren't believers. He wouldn't be telling people that his religion is the only religion, and he wouldn't be telling people that they're heathens and going to hell.

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Uh...no one conveniently forgets Jesus is Jewish. It's brought up in nearly every homily at my church. And if course he ascended into heaven. Hell? That's where you're going, Deem. Do you believe this, Nex?

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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Nope I am a man of science and reason religion is not my cup of tea.

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I never heard Jesus was Jewish officially until I went to a Lutheran College.

He descended into hell before he came back for those 40 days you twit! we just don't say that descended into Hell bit in the [we say it is the Apostle's creed but it really is the] Nicene Creed. ascended up descended down, fool!

and here you are proving my point that things are conveniently forgotten in our religion. what I call 'another gay cousin'.

and this is what totally pisses me off about the Catholic religion to begin with... you, nor I, nor anyone else has the right to judge. That is left up to 'Our/Your Lord and Savior'. Far too many people of the Catholic faith believe this and practice this disgusting display of self righteousness. as you have proven. thank you for your help.

Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.

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Then you were not paying attention. I have not studied the bible and I have not been to church more than a handful of times and I was fully aware that Jesus was a Jew. With a bit of learning I know that Jesus was working for a reformation of Judaism, rather than creating a new religion of Christianity, so go ahead and complain about that.

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In my family we were more church people than Bible people.. The bible just wasn't a big thing with us. Church was. Church keeps this part of the religion quiet.



Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.

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Out of curiousity, what religion did you think Jesus was?

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I didn't think. I was a child. we weren't brought up to think about our religion and the logistics of it. we just had to obey.


the harsh reality of our religion was just not accepted as fact and truth in my family. we did church, we did CCD. We were not allowed to go to sunday school because then we'd miss church. When I was older I wasn't even allowed to help with the sunday school because I'd miss church and that was a sin.


and this is one of the many reasons I hate organized religion as a whole and believe most religions are the roots of all evil and wars.



Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.

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Why are you tired to User like you were to me, Deem?

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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care to translate that into English?


how can I be tired to User or anyone for that matter?



Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.

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"Science" as you refer to it is a religion.

Evolution was born out of a desire to come up with a theory that those who didn't want to believe in the Bible could accept. There is nothing scientific about contriving a theory and pushing for it to become an accepted kind of science so people can blow off facts that are already available to learn. Then came the work to legitimize it, including having respected biologists and such to throw their names behind it. I will admit that there are a few legitimate scientific findings that make evolution seem possible, but it's either just coincidence, or it could have been made available by God himself, to test people and/or give them a free choice whether or not to believe in him.

Think about it... what other kind of science is there that takes focus off God- And what better way to turn people off from the God of the Bible by trying to make people believe that he's not so great and probably doesn't even exist than by attacking Creationism? That is what was on the minds of the developers of the theory of evolution. They hated the Bible and the very concept of God. Now look how the beliefs of many people have been captured by the hatred of the developers. Millions, maybe billions! I choose to believe in what was not developed out of hatred.

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There are vast differences between science and religion,science doesn't claim to know the exact answers and therefore is able to adapt to the changes that come along as we find out more and more about subjects. Religion has no place for change since it premise is founded on a rocksteady faith that what is written is the ultimate truth(which it often isn't).Religion is a dictate that is not to be questioned, science on the other end acts quite the opposite science posses a theory which all scientist try to debunk or replace with a better theory.Scientists don't blow facts they do meticulous research trying to prove the theory with data,observations and measurements it is not like somebody decides to suck a theory out of his thumb and if it sounds right it is accepted as fact (which is kinda what religion does)so why do we apply different standards for religion than we apply to science?

And please stop trying to persuade me to question my convictions since science gives me all the explanation I need I don't have any place for religion in my life (I did look in various religions)there never has been and never will.So I let you believe whatever you want and if you are hapy with it good for you but please don't think you can convince me with your missionary work in trying to persuade me that religion is the ultimate truth(because to me it isn't).

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As a former Practicing Wiccan, I don't try to shove religion down anyone's throat.

But don't get hung up on your science stuff too much either. I love science (Im horrible at it. After I retire My goal is to take Biology and Anatomy classes at a college and pass at least the lowest level) But science is not fast and sure.
It seems to be ever-changing, and often two scientists with the same information will reach different conclusions.
Ie, recommendations for cancer treatments in the same patient.

And don't think all science is correct, or that scientists follow the rules, they don't always, just like other people too.
How many medications can we list that have had horrible to disastrous effects on the patient's?
The list is long.

I think you are from a country where religion is pretty much an old fashioned concept. I think that we are all a product of our environment. The USA has a lot of different environments for those of us here to get lost in.

BRING THEM TO HEAL!

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Science" as you refer to it is a religion.

Evolution was born out of a desire to come up with a theory that those who didn't want to believe in the Bible could accept. There is nothing scientific about contriving a theory and pushing for it to become an accepted kind of science so people can blow off facts that are already available to learn. Then came the work to legitimize it, including having respected biologists and such to throw their names behind it. I will admit that there are a few legitimate scientific findings that make evolution seem possible, but it's either just coincidence, or it could have been made available by God himself, to test people and/or give them a free choice whether or not to believe in him.

Think about it... what other kind of science is there that takes focus off God- And what better way to turn people off from the God of the Bible by trying to make people believe that he's not so great and probably doesn't even exist than by attacking Creationism? That is what was on the minds of the developers of the theory of evolution. They hated the Bible and the very concept of God. Now look how the beliefs of many people have been captured by the hatred of the developers. Millions, maybe billions! I choose to believe in what was not developed out of hatred.


No, science is not a religion, you don't accept facts based on faith, you accept them based on evidence. Evolution is supported by overwhelming evidence. Creation has been proven wrong time and time again. Do you really think the Earth is only thousands of years old? Why should you take the words of ancient men over modern, intelligent scientists? Those scientists aren't about hating a deity, they're about understanding our universe.

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Yeah, sorry. I was dozing when I wrote that. Why weren't you rude to User like you were to me?

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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You are about as clueless as it gets. User isn't trying to shove religion down anybody's throat while calling them "non believers, faithless heathens", and telling them they're going to hell. There is a difference.

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You've gone full retard every time you've mentioned religion in this thread. I'm wondering if there is a positive side to your religion or if it entirely consists of thinking you get rewarded for believing anything you're told and telling everyone else they will be punished for not being as gullible as you are.

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Well, it seems your problem is with the church. This can be understandable.
It seems you had people around you that were falsely telling you 'righteousness'.
It is not their place to judge you, never was, never will be. That is only for God to do.
I had a lot of dealings with falsely righteous people too. The people I knew were having extramarital affairs. but acted all Holier than thou stuff.

I think you got turned off by the people not the religion. Possible if you went to a different church or sect or whatever they call it, you'd find people of like mind.
Im sort of interested in finding a group right now for myself but with my "scary" Wiccan background and lack of Biblical knowledge I think I would just end up alienating people right now.

I always held that science and evolution was correct. But sometimes Im just not sure. Some of the stuff on this planet seems so miraculous, I question whether or not it could be random and I doubt that.

Anyway it's too bad that you met with a batch of people in your youth that had such a profound effect on your entire life and future.

BRING THEM TO HEAL!

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My problem is also with my parents. They still have their heads in the clouds. My father was never a MAJOR prayer until recently. and by that I mean he prays when he is driving and then we miss our exit. The worst is when we are in home depot or somewhere and he just sneaks a small item into his coat. when I quietly remind him to pay for that he shushes me and tell me I am embarrassing him. This is crap he has always done. petty stealing.

and it really is the religion I am turned off by. pretty much all organized religion. I went to a Lutheran College because they had a wonderful teaching program and it was close to home. The last year I was ready to pummel half of the Lutherans there because most of them thought and were taught they were better than other religions.

I did go to a young adult group with my church until relatively recently. The problem with them was that they brought so much drama into it. One girl was married to a man who also accompanied her to the meetings and would basically mind fvk another man at the meeting. right in front of her husband who was a wonderful guy.

then we all went to another church's young adult meeting and there were shouting matches about religion and politics. We don't get that deep in our meetings and I was actually afraid for my life in that meeting. I wanted to get out but the path to the door was blocked by them.

and whenever I go to church there are other parents who don't control/notice their children running amok or screaming. No one feels comfortable saying anything to these parents so the behavior continues.

Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.

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Well your dad is a thief. There was probably something from his past that has just stayed with him regarding this issue. Possibly just don't go into stores where he shoplifts with him. As you have already told him that you are aware of his behavior you could just tell him. "I'll wait in the car because I do not want to be party to your thievery." Then stay in the car. It's not trying to shame him which is just a nasty thing to do, it's just not partaking of as stated, his thievery. Or you could just leave off the part about his stealing and just tell him that you'll wait in the car.

My family went to church every sunday until I was four.
I have been to church twice in the military and once with my husband since I was four.

Maybe you could find a group either non-denominational and or with older people. As far as kids running around, I think it bothers those of us without kids more than it does others. But I can't stand that either. I want to smack the parents in the back of the head.

Looking at stuff on the internet only, which doesn't show anyone in their best light, I has seen a lot of people that think one form of Christianity is better than another. And they get quite terse about it too. I just don't understand it of course, but I don't approve of it.

At this time I just study/read my Bible on my own.



BRING THEM TO HEAL!

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What constantly pissed me off about my father is: what in hell did you teach me when I was growing up???. like really??? do as I say not as I do??? I never liked stealing and I still don't like it. he never stole because of lack of money, 1: the Uncle Leo [Seinfeld] I was confused..., 2: he sometimes thinks he is ENTITLED to whatever he is stealing [like the store owes him], 3:[the most common] the store knows he is on the level - he has good intentions of paying for something later and his glibness is somehow bought by all other strangers.

I don't know how many times he has taken CompUSA to small claims court only to CONTINUE TO SHOP THERE! LIKE DUH!

my father is borderline autistic/Asperger's. there is no shaming him.

and, I have a problem with speaking up with my father. I always have. the biggest reason I had to go to therapy [social worker] when I was a child was the fact that no one listened to me. He was the biggest deaf person around. [not literally]. and of course this twit's answer was: tell them that. erm, if that worked to begin with I wouldn't need you! It's just not worth saying anything anymore. I live alone now and they are down in florida.



when I was younger the kids running around church was not a problem. parents disciplined and controlled their children. if a kid was just inconsolable, they got removed from the service. now, this just doesn't happen anymore. when a inconsolable child DOES get removed, I do give a small smile of approval.

even when I was 4 or so we never brought cheerios or coloring books or toys. too bad. and I was undiagnosed ADD at that time. I still dealt with it for an hour. THIS is the problem with society today, kids aren't trained to deal with themselves appropriately for an hour a week. they want what they want when they want it how they want it and society is creating monsters.



Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.

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Seems like you have deeper issues, Deem.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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you shouldn't judge. the biggest problem with religion is this uncontrollable need to feel you are better than others.

Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.

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You shouldn't feel inferior. But, the Lord is inviting to all.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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That's a good smart-arse answer. I'll give that to you, someone says you shouldn't feel superior for having a pretty lame imaginary friend but you turn it around to say that they shouldn't feel inferior. Fair play, did you feel a warm gushy feeling like your imaginary friend was stroking you or did you just think back to that feeling when your friendly priest rubbed you just right?

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Well, Deem left the church because of the people she attended church with, not because of God.

BRING THEM TO HEAL!

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Don't be idiotic, Nak. God has everything to do with it! He never disciplined the people who were essentially dissing him! My father always got away with his little crap, the parents whose kids were constantly running around or screaming or both were never spoken to or even glared at.

God has everything to do with it since it seems like God doesn't exist since discipline never happened to those who needed the discipline.

Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.

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What do you expect God to do, Deem? Throw a lightning bolt down and smite all those who do bad things? He game is freedom of choice. Free will. We can do anything we wish. Hopefully it's the right choice.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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[deleted]

you are absolutely right that we can do anything we wish. from licking a tv screen to ignoring complete idiotprickdouchebags.

bye to you and nak.

Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.

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dear user: so is drudging up a thread that was dead.



Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.

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What did I say?

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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I don't know what you said, but probably we are on " ignore" now.😟

Because you'd be in jail

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Whatever. Just cause we're more religious than her, I guess.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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If you think thats the reason why I suggest you withdraw some cash and go buy a clue.

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I'm going to say it is because you ironically mocked her for believing in an all-powerful god that doesn't do anything, while you believe in an all-powerful god that wants you to do things and doesn't care if you do or not.

That would make you less religious than Deem.

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Me? I didn't mock her.

Movie Theater: Young Frankenstein 10/10. RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time.

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Oh ye, of little faith.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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