Picard's Career


Can someone clear something up for me.

We know that Picard did captain the Stargazer. A vessel that was lost. In 'Measure of a Man', the JAG officer says she prosecuted Picard at that time because it was 'standard procedure whenever a ship is lost'. In Enterprise, Shran (Jeffrey Combs) says 'when you lose your ship you're usually not rewarded with another one'. SO: how on earth (pun intended) did Picard get to captain the flagship of the Federation? Was it immediately after the Stargazer? What were the circumstances of that ship's destruction?

Thanksss in advance

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I think it's somewhat difficult to understand how Picard would become CO of the federation flagship given what we know of his history; we can deduce his career moved extremely fast after graduating, he'd made Lt Cmdr within 6 years, he took command of USS Stargazer during a battle situation, having possibly served as XO and held the command for 22 years, promotion to captains rank is unknown though. He was well connected even before that time as JP Hanson mentioned he made it his business to get to know him as a cadet.

What happened in the 9 years between loss of the Stargazer and launch of the Enterprise had to have groomed him enough for Starfleet to give him a much larger command, not much of this is known it's enough time for him to take up another command though it's never mentioned on screen.

I don't think you can really relate practices of the Androrian high command in the 22nd century to those of Starfleet in the 24th century though.

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It's not what you know, it's who you know.
Like the visitor captain that ended up attached to my medical unit in the Army After he taxied an F-16 into another F-16.
By the way, he wasn't supposed to be taxiing the planes anyway. He should have been out on his big bubble butt.

But he knew our cammanding officer a lieutenant colonel, BA-Da-Bing-BA-da-boom.
Free walk.

No world order that elevates one nation or group of people over another will succeed

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What I find odd is that I had a much different impression of Picard's career.

Somehow I got the idea that he took over the ship during a crisis and captained it for a very short time, possibly merging his assuming command with the Battle of Maxia. Sure, we got mentions every now and then (such as him running from the Cardassians at one point), but I'm not sure where everyone gets the 22 years thing.

As for getting the Ent-D, I can only imagine it was a combination of circumstances. I'm not familiar with transferring ship commands in real life, but felt it was bad form to transition a captain off of a ship without a good reason - and if you have a good reason, it likely isn't because they're a great captain. A captain needs to be familiar with the ship and crew, know it inside and out, can't just be quickly replaced, they'd be replaced because the captain wasn't able to carry out the role - either voluntarily or involuntarily. Jellico took command of the Ent-D only because he was a subject matter expert with the Cardassians, though even then that only seems because Picard was conveniently needed plotwise for the special operations mission. (Perhaps that was meant as something of a rebuke by Starfleet to Riker - you turned down at least two captaincies, you obviously don't feel you're ready, so we'll trust that and find someone else for the role)

So, I figured that when the Ent-D got a ways into the construction, Picard happened to be right place, right time when came time to choose the commanding officer.. An experienced officer of Captain rank with (presumably) a distinguished record, exonerated of the loss of the Stargazer, with no current assignments, and also presumably vetted by whatever selection committee was required. He then spent his time on the construction detail, learning how the ship was put together and such - it was described as being the most sophisticated ship yet made, not something you can study up on in a month.

Jake Meridius Conhale, at your service!
"Old Man" of the BSG (RDM) boards.

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All excellent points, Conhale.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Robert Vaughn

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There's no real canon details as to what happened during the interim from the time he abandoned the Stargazer to when he got command of the Enterprise-D, but here is my theory that helps me suspend disbelief. This is based on a few facts: One, that Picard is a rather savvy diplomat, which means he is also a political animal, and Two, it was Admiral Nora Satie (played by Jean Simmons in The Drumhead) who gave Picard the Enterprise, and Three, the Enterprise-D is the "Flagship of the Federation."

Normally, abandoning ship when there was a chance to save it is a major crime in any navy, and we know Picard was court-martialed for it. I don't know how Starfleet JAG considers prosecutions, but in the regular US and UK militaries (upon which Starfleet is based off of) if the JAG hasn't got at least some solid evidence that the ship could've been saved, they can't file charges and can't bring a case to a court-martial because accusing an officer of a crime without proof usually means that the JAG officers in question will be facing prison time too. So, I'm leaning on the side that they had some sort of evidence, enough to bring to a court. Probably eye-witness testimony and perhaps some physical records taken by some officers when they abandoned ship.

But, Picard was found Not Guilty, and wasn't found guilty of Conduct Unbecoming an Officer (which is the catch-all; if JAG can't get you on the big stuff, they'll get you on this). We don't know what happened during the trial, but I'm sure Picard gave a spirited and eloquent defense of himself on the stand, saying that he felt he had no choice but to abandon ship for whatever reason.

Getting court-martialed, even if you're found Not Guilty, is a black mark on your record. So that meant that he was not going to get another ship immediately. He knew that, so I imagine he got posted close to the Admiralty, to be in a position to put himself into the running for a new command. He had to know that the Enterprise-D was going to be the "Flagship of the Federation," and that meant not only that it would be a prestigious assignment, but it would be a major political one as well, with a lot of public light on her.

If he was going to get command of the Enterprise, he had to show the Admiralty that he was just the right man for the job, by showing them that he thinks as they do. That he's not a maverick like James T. Kirk, a man who stole the famous Enterprise out from Spacedock and had Scotty sabotage the Excelsior (which is something that would be remembered by admirals for decades after the fact). All military services, even ones that don't think of themselves as a military, are filled with cliques, and if you're not in the right clique for what you want, you're not going to get much. Especially at the level of Admirals and Generals, who have all the power in the world to grant command postings however they like, they have a lot of people to sift through to consider. By placing himself in such a position close to them, being helpful, and always comporting himself as an able officer, giving speeches here and there on the sanctity of the Prime Directive, about exploration and such, he will be first and foremost in the minds of the likes of Nora Satie when it comes time to select a commanding officer for the new Enterprise.

Occasionally, my mind wanders into some sordid gutters on just what he specifically did with Admiral Satie, but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt here and suggest nothing unbecoming an officer happened here. No sleeping his way to the top, so to speak.

It explains Picard's frosty attitude in the first couple of seasons of the show. Once he got command of the Enterprise, now he had to prove to the admiralty that they made the right choice. He didn't like the idea of having kids aboard, but he kept his comments mainly to himself and his senior staff. It's interesting to note that he also had carte blanche to select his senior staff, including his XO. That must've taken some doing, and while I've been very critical of Picard's leadership, I've never been too critical about his performance as a politician. Again, I don't want to suggest he did something unseemly, but, wow, that is something that no commanding officer in any military is able to get out of the blue.

However, when he would see the Stargazer again, he should've soiled himself. Because when the court-martial probably didn't prove to the satisfaction of the jury that he could've saved the Stargazer, here was the proof. And in the real military, you can be retried for the same crime if new evidence comes up.

It is important to note that by this point, Picard probably didn't have to doctor the records aboard the Stargazer. Indeed, if he did, and it was discovered that the Stargazer's computer was tampered with, he could just as easily blame Damon Bok. Bok, if he wanted to ruin Picard, could've just taken the Stargazer to a Starbase, untouched, if he understood how huuuumaaans did things. Even so, the question is would the Admiralty bother to relieve Picard? Even with new evidence pointing to cowardice and incompetence?

Given what I've seen from the franchise, the answer is probably no. Why? Because that would cast some embarrassing light on the Admirals themselves for posting a man they knew abandoned that ship. If the media in the Federation is at all free, and I don't think it is, those questions could cost those admirals their rank and careers. Why bring up something like that if it doesn't have to be? After all, the Enterprise-D is going to do mainly diplomatic missions, showing the flag, and some explorations, but nothing too important. No need to report on something until there's a problem, eh?

So that's how I think he got command of the Enterprise. I don't think he got there on merit.

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it was Admiral Nora Satie (played by Jean Simmons in The Drumhead) who gave Picard the Enterprise


I think it's just paper work as to whom from the office of the admiralty signs off the orders for a new vessel, Picard and Satie didn't seem to know each other when she first came aboard from memory.

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They gave Captain Smith the Titanic after he got in an accident with the Olympic. Go figure.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Robert Vaughn

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I think it's just paper work as to whom from the office of the admiralty signs off the orders for a new vessel, Picard and Satie didn't seem to know each other when she first came aboard from memory.


I just rewatched that; they knew each other well enough. Their relationship was likely very professional (as I said, no hanky-panky), and Admirals have a lot of people they meet on a daily basis. We do know that she gave him the Enterprise, and they were not going to just randomly select who was going to command the "Flagship of the Federation." Nor were they going to choose on merit. A guy who manages to make his way up on his own merit is someone they cannot control, like a James Kirk. Kirk stole the Enterprise. Picard would never dream of that.

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It's interesting to note that he also had carte blanche to select his senior staff, including his XO. That must've taken some doing...

Not so sure about that, I would have thought if he had the final say in everything, then what about Crusher? Their scene in Encounter at Farpoint is basically dripping with "I didn't assign you here myself, if you want to go I'll do what I can to streamline the process".

Either he didn't have much choice in the matter or, on paper, she's just so awesome he couldn't, professionally, reject her. Course, she is highly motivated, we've seen her as a Starship Captain and I suspect you don't become the Head of Starfleet Medical without serious chops.

Jake Meridius Conhale, at your service!
"Old Man" of the BSG (RDM) boards.

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That's a good point. But I remember reading somewhere that he was allowed to select Data, LaForge, Riker and Worf. Especially Riker, as we know, he said he wanted someone who would "stand up to him." Well, we know how well that worked out. As for Dr. Crusher, it's still possible that he didn't select her and didn't quite know who to select; after all, if someone's qualified to be a physician and has served as a CMO before, the available prospects can be a bit daunting.

Data is especially interesting, because he's unique. By rights, Starfleet should never have allowed him to serve anywhere where he could be a problem if he were ever captured. As stupid as Starfleet HQ has demonstrated to be, I really have a hard time believing that they would be that stupid to allow Picard to have Data on his staff on the Enterprise without a fight, and a fight like that requires a lot of brass on your side to expect a victory. Of course, as we now know, Gene didn't think through any of these characters too well, so it becomes incumbent of the audience to fill in the blanks to suspend disbelief.

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It's shown on screen he hand picked Riker, Yar, and LaForge. Data don't recall any mention, Worf don't recall, Troi think their was a brief mention. Crusher didn't make the call, same with Pulaski.

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Because there's a Starfleet Medical branch, and there's a "chief" of it, we can presume that they are rather independent of the general admiralty corps, and frankly, I think that's actually a good thing. Because you really don't want to leave posting of physicians to their kind of politicking. In real militaries, there are a lot of weird postings for officers that have absolutely nothing to do with merit, and sometimes it can get downright incestuous in many cases (the North Korean military is notorious for nepotism).

As for Worf and Troi, my recollection is that it was Gene who pointed out that Picard was given leave to pick his staff, and I don't know if that included everyone in the officer corps aboard the Enterprise. I doubt that he was given that kind of leeway, because if we figure that at least half of the complement are Starfleet personnel, and about a fifth of that are officers, or more, that means a hundred people to select, and that's just too much for anyone to consider. I figure he's given a choice of about ten people.

Regardless, if he was given that kind of option, that's extraordinary, but not entirely unheard of. Usually you hear about that from prominent general officers, not O-6 officers.

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Some of the same people that Captain Smith had on the Olympic, he brought with him to the Titanic.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Robert Vaughn

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The Titanic was a private company.
EDIT sorry White Star Line.
End of line

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I have many Titanic books and videos.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Robert Vaughn

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JakeConhale:

what about Crusher?

Yeah it's absolutely true he never wanted her aboard. It's covered in 'Attached', when they get captured and devices attached to the brain which for some strange reason (read: lazy plot device) communicate thoughts telepathically between each other. This is how the writers chose to communicate what Picard's feeling for Crusher really are, namely: he was in love with her when she was married to Jack, he obviously couldn't say anything, feeling guilty and that he was betraying his best friend. After the latter's death, probably this only intensified. So, understandable why he didn't want her aboard.
It's also interesting to note that in every Trek the CMO and captain tend to clash heads frequently. (Bones, Crusher AND Pulaski, Bashir, EMH, Phlox). I think it might be a power thing, the CMO being the only person on board who can relieve the captain. (Or if you're Janeway, just ignore the order).
One more point on this: I always had a kind of half-joking theory that Picard might have, either consciously or subconsciously, 'got rid' of Jack - the competition. Now I know that's outrageous (!) but as far as I know the exact circumstances have never been revealed in canon, anywhere. So I just posit it as a hypothetical to myself as a way to fill in the gaps. Another possibility is Wesley's psych test at the Academy. Whether that was a recreation of what happened in reality to Jack - though it doesn't leave his legacy in a very good light. But, all that aside, does anyone have actual canon on this? If so please divulge - I am practically desperate to find out what happened. (And stop pointlessly theorising).
Much appreciated.

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I don't want her aboard either. I want Pulaski there.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Robert Vaughn

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Shagging the admiral's wife? 

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I think the obvious answer is, and this is really keeping with kayfabe, is that this is a huge plothole with the series and that the writers and producers don't have any real knowledge on how the military works. Remember, this is a show where nearly every episode stands alone with the exception of 2 parters and some references in future episodes regarding things that happened in the past(Yar popping up after her death, Data's portrait of Yar, Picard's run ins with the Borg, Worf's issues with the Klingon High Command, etc) but it's a kind of show that you can pick it up wherever and not miss much of a beat but I digress. In a TV series, you run into problems like this. Frasier is wrought with plot holes and inconsistencies between the Frasier Frasier and the Cheers Frasier. The producers of that show do poke fun at these inconsistencies though. As for Picard and the Stargazer, you can also throw in the "Captain goes down with the ship" mantra as well.

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Frasier isn't in the same league as Cheers, Rock.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Robert Vaughn

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And you're a stalking troll fake cjh.

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Nice that you can tell the difference, Rock. Thanks.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Robert Vaughn

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He has an anti-CJH Troll program on his computer to identify the fake ones. 

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I wish everyone did, Nexy. It'd be a lot easier than having to always explain to everyone who doesn't know.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Robert Vaughn

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