Beer Drinking


I am wondering about how often Morse and Lewis stop and have a drink (usually beer) while they are on duty. Coming from the States, where policeman are NOT allowed to drink on duty, it seems as if M and L are always having a pint or two while ON the job. Also, one of them has to drive to and from the pub or whatever, so we are talking about not only drinking on duty, but drinking and driving; although Morse already mentions in some episodes that he does NOT drink and drive. Is the beer that is served in UK pubs less alcoholic or just that it is more common to have beers for lunch or dinner in UK and therefore, they have a higher tolerance? Just asking, not judging. Love the show and am trying to catch up on all the ones I've missed via Hulu and IMDb.

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There are a couple of ways to approach this question. First, the beers that they drink probably have a low alcoholic level and they know how much they can safely have and still remain below the limit. Second, the roads in and around Oxford seem to be country lanes and so the driving wouldn't be that challenging, because the worst that could happen is that they end up crashed into one of those infamous hedgerows.

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The type of beer favoured by Morse (draught bitter) is typically 3% - 5%. I think it's still probably frowned upon for a policeman to drink on duty but a senior plain-clothes cop like Morse can probably get away with it more easily than a man in uniform. My recollection also is that Lewis quite often has a soft drink so that he can drive.

The father of a friend of mine used to live in a beautiful village about 20 miles from Oxford. In those days the pubs had to close at 11pm but in this village pub they used to lock the doors at 11 and the locals would carry on drinking (against the law). It was not unknown for the local duty policeman to pop in for a pint at 2 or 3 in the morning. Of course he was never asked to pay for it.

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Policeman drinking on duty would have been more acceptable in the 80s and early 90s than it is nowadays. For example, in Midsomer Murders which started in 1997, Barnaby usually refuses if someone offers him whiskey or other hard liquor and while he might go to a pub during the day, his assistant, the one driving the car, would order orange juice or something like that. During the latter series, he increasingly drinks just on his spare time.

In Europe (especially continental Europe) it is also much more acceptable to drink during the day. In Austria, for example, they have this custom in the rural areas that after the sunday church at about 11 am, everyone will go to a pub and have few pints of wheat beer. Working people drink wine or beer during their lunch hours everywhere.

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But here in Vienna, where people work so that the rest of the country can lounge about in pubs at lunchtime, I've never seen anyone drink alcohol on a working lunch ;)

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Well, that's the thing, Morse is clearly an alcoholic. A highly functioning alcoholic, but an alcoholic nonetheless. It's something his assistant Lewis can't do much about, and it's something his boss Strange knows perfectly well about. But he never drinks too much or seems overtly drunk, so as long as he doesn't appear to be intoxicated, there's not much anyone can do about it. It gets constantly worse, as well, until the moment when he asks one of the constables for a cup of coffee so he can spike it with whiskey. And that makes him look so bad it even reaches Superintendent Strange.

I don't know how much you could drink and still be under the limit, but I'd guess one or two beers would be safe. Lewis never drinks more than one beer, if he even drinks beer at all. In the early series, he usually have one to accompany Morses drinking. But you can see he isn't comfortable with it, and later on in the series he has drawn a line and only drinks orange juice. Morse on the other hand, usually have one or two or three or four beers during the day. Though, he draws the line with drinking and driving. As he has an assistant, he don't have to drive while under the infleunce. And though it isn't in his job decription, Lewis is constantly reminded by Strange to "keep an eye" on Morse, hinting on that it's Lewis responsibility to see that Morse behaves accordingly.

England was very much a class oriented society, and when you have reached over a certain level, your position is given some leeway. The higher the position, the higher the infallibility. That means, Morse was allowed to do things that wouldn't be acceptable for anyone in a position lower than his, certainly not a constable. People had respect, not for Morse personally, but for the position he held as a Chief Inspector. A society like that gives much power to anyone with a position, a power that can be used or abused. And Morse clearly abused that power, much to the chagrin of his fellow mates.

On the funny side, his constant thirst for beer is used almost to comedic effect, because of the extremely quirky and very English opening hours. Pubs were only opened between noon and half past two in the afternoon, and between half past six and half past nine in the evening. Even a minute after closing time doesn't matter, you're not allowed a beer even if you are the police. So, Morse is constantly annoyed he can't have his beer before lunch or late in the afternoon. One time Lewis even went to the supermarket to get him some canned beer, but Morse just threw it away sneering that it's not the same, frowning on the thought like the snob he is.

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I've seen that sometimes where Morse indicates to Lewis that he going to get to have orange juice since he will be the designated driver. And also, when they do end up in a pub that there is more focus on fellowship then drinking and half finished pints always seem to be left on the table. Also, they never seem to wobble or slur their words.

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I can tell you're American just by your quickness to label Morse an alcoholic. This is not an insult or a put-down, but as a foreigner living in the US, Americans are a but funny about things.

A person can drink every single day, but that does not mean they have a problem with alcohol. A person can eat dessert everyday, but it also does not mean they will be obese.

Don't get me wrong - I like America and Americans, and think this is one of the easiest countries to change your fortunes - but you guys are so excessive about things and that's good...as long as the person can handle it. Simply put - America is a country of excess. Everything is bigger and more plentiful here and it's so easy to overdo things.

The way the average Americans think vs Europeans is so different. Using Morse's drinking, he can have one drink for lunch and one for dinner every single day, and that would be fine. In America, the guy would not stop at one drink - as he's taking the first sip at lunch, he's thinking of ways to convince his boss he's sick because he plans on getting *beep* Europeans might drink everyday, but Americans would see that as an alcoholic. Instead, they'll save their drinking for Friday evening and spend the entire weekend drunk as hell.

LOL


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Funny you would peg me as an American. Why is that? I'm not an American, I'm a Scandinavian. Swedish, in fact. So, your whole fallacy is wrong, to quote Woody Allen.

But Morse is clearly an alcoholic in the sense that he is an habitual drinker. He doesn't want a drink, he needs a drink. There are people who drink a glass of wine everyday that aren't alcoholics. Or a beer at lunch. But with Morse, it's one or two beers at lunch, and a couple more in the afternoon. And perhaps something sitting in the chair, reading and listening to opera late at night. If you're on duty, and you need your morning coffee spiked with whiskey, you are clearly an alcoholic.





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Touche.

I think I've lived in the States for too long because over here people are so quick to label.


I think Morse drank a lot, but to call him an alcoholic is a stretch. He enjoyed drinking and although he drank frequently, it was out of habit, not dependence. IMO, an alcoholic - whether functional or not - needs booze. I recall the scene where he asks for whiskey in his coffee but that was a sign of the times back in the 80s. I just spent the past couple weeks watching the entire series and as the years progressed, both Morse and Lewis' drinking habits changed - Morse drank less and Lewis seemed to drink more frequently. It was more of a pattern of behavior - obviously, some people drink more than others.

I thought it was odd that Strange and the rest made a point about Morse's drinking, yet Strange was nursing an ever-expanding waistline. Granted, this was not part of the script, but no one's going to call him a food addict.

I see Morse's drinking like smoking. Back then, it was okay to smoke in the office. As this was acceptable, people smoked more than they would have had smoking not been acceptable.

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I think Morse drank a lot, but to call him an alcoholic is a stretch.


I understand your view, but I think you're wrong.

Yes, there was much drinking on worktime yesteryears. At least for the upper echelons. As seen in Mad Men. But that habit changed gradually over the years, until it's almost non existent nowadays. And the 80's/90's is where that changed from being common to be frowned upon. Or at least noticed.

The difference between a habit and dependence comes when your habits affect your life. If you're an alcoholic, when you neglect your wife and family and kids, when you show up drunk at work, when you drink all your money away. If it's not a problem, then it isn't a problem.

Strange knows that Morse drinks too much for his own good. And he's worried on a personal level, that it effect his health. And he's worried on a professional level, that it effects his work. And he's worried how it is seen. When others notice, then Morse has gone too far. And when a constable feels the need to report Morses drinking habits to his superior, then it's not good at all.

That's why Strange wants Levis to chaperon Morse. It's Lewis responsibility to keep Morse on track. And it's a constant struggle, as Lewis doesn't have that leverage against Morse.

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The difference between a drunk and an alcoholic? A drunk doesn't attend the meetings. I know it's an old joke but it seemed appropriate.

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I'm American,not a drinker,but when I go out to lunch during work hours most of the people in the restaurant are drinking alcohol and then return to work.

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[deleted]

Firstly I love Morse and love nearly all spohisticated crime drama. So why not dash this off. I am English a journalist so probably drink might be a problem but it isn't. I like a drink with food - sometimes more sometimes less. Morse is older and stuck in his ways. Why not? If he likes a drink or more so be it. Yes there is no way the Police Force has a rule of drinking on duty but heck the man has a brain the size of a planet and he solves cases. Let it be.

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I agree with chester-copperpot-1, Morse clearly has a problem with booze. Some Europeans think no one is an alcoholic because practically everyone in their country is one!

Young people reading this board should be aware that in the real world neither ale nor any other alchoholic beverage helps anyone think. It's not for nothing that here in Texas we call it "stupid juice".

---------------

He maketh His sun to rise on the evil and on the good... St. Matthew 5:45

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As the son of a former British publican I can assure you that the pub opening times in the UK during the Morse episodes of the late 1980's were 11:00 AM until 3:00 PM and 6:00 PM until 10:30 PM (11:00 PM on Fridays and Saturdays) Drinkers were by law allowed 10 minutes to finish their drinks once "time" had been called. My step father would allow his 2 very large German Sheperd's into the public bar to encourage people to finish up and leave.

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And because that's how it happened in HIS bar, that was how things happen everywhere.....

If anyone boos you off stage, that is simply applause from ghosts. ~Sharon Needles

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I started working in a pub kitchen in 1983, the hours were 11.30am to 2pm, then 5pm to 11pm, or 10.30pm on Sundays. The 'last orders' call went out ten minutes before closing time, and you'd be allowed more than ten minutes to finish your drink, but you would have impatient barstaff hovering over you, waiting to take your empty glass and clean the table. There was much more of a drinking habit then, because of the restricted hours. So if a Detective Inspector wanted a lunchtime pint he'd only have time for one drink before being kicked out at closing time, like everyone else.

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Yes, back in those days pubs all had the same opening hours.

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For all those calling Morse an alcoholic - Every person has a different tolerance to various poisons(yes, alcohol IS a poison - so are most drugs). For me alcohol has never been a problem - I once drank over a liter of 'jungle juice' at a party in less than 3 hours, yet was still about to ride a bicycle home, at speed, without an accident. I'm well known among my friends for drinking other under a table and never showing a sign of being drunk. I have never had a hangover in my life. I prefer hard liquor(usually high-end whiskey or scotch), as I cannot stand the taste of most beer. The beer I do like is usually dark, with high alcohol content(and usually expensive).

Some people have a genetic trait that can cause their liver to NOT filter the alcohol from their blood, American Indians are one group that have this trait. I believe that as with many things, this can also work the other way - their may be a genetic trait that allows someone to be able to drink large quantities of alcohol with little effect on their behavior or abilities.

Given some of Morse's behavior in the series, he might be a high functioning alcoholic, but I doubt this - most high functioning alcoholics require many drinks during the day, and often drink heavily after the workday is over. Morse is never shown to be that heavy of a drinker in the series.
I believe he is just one of those people that prefer to drink beer over other choices. I am the same way, I prefer to drink certain sodas or a glass of whiskey over anything else - even water.
I do drink water during exercise, but that is about the only time.

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Different people have different definitions about what substitutes the definition of an alcholic. The thing is, it really doesn't matter if the audience believe Morse was or wasn't an alcoholic. It's a question about what those around him perceived, and how they saw it.

Did Morse drink a lot? Yes, he did. Did he drink every day? We don't know, but he was seen drinking pretty much every day. Did it affect his work? Not overtly so. Did he appear to be clearly intoxicated? Not what I can recollect. Did he ever drive over the limit? Not that I know of.

However, was those around him concerned about his drinking? Yes, definitely. Was Lewis ever pleased with his drinking? He did accept it, but he was never comfortable with it. Did constables under him report his drinking behaviour? Yes, they did report it to his superior. Was his superior concerned? Yes, constantly. His boss was constantly worried that Morse drank too much. Was his girlfriend worried? Yes, she was worried he would die prematurely because of his drinking.

So, whatever you think, if he was or wasn't an alcholic really isn't the point. The point is that Morse was seen drinking a lot, and that those around him was worried that he drank too much. And the series was written that way. It is a part of the Morse character-arc that he had those problems. And it was written that those problems affected his work and his relation with his colleagues.

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Morse is never shown to be that heavy of a drinker in the series.


In one instance, they are on their way to a beer on lunch time, they arrive late just in time for the pub to close. With those curious laws, english pubs were only allowed to serve alcohol only on lunch time and after hours, they were strictly forbidden to serve anything in the few hours in between on the afternoon. Morse even waves his police badge to get him some, but is turned down. Lewis even volunteers to buy him some beer cans in a local shop, just because Morse had such severe withdrawal problems. And when you're at that level, you clearly have a problem.

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i have always thought it odd that Morse drank so much on duty. The guide to conduct for british police officers states that they should be sober, and not drink on duty unless specificially authorised to to do so.
however, in my opinion, even more reprehensible is the fact that he often seems to get emotionally involved with women who are suspects in murders he is investigating. This seems highly unprofessional to me, and i am pretty certain it would be frowned on in real life.

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In the books, Morse upholds a strict rule in which Lewis ALWAYS has orange juice while he has the beer, and then Lewis drives. So there is no question of Morse driving buzzed.

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yes, but it's not just about driving, but about him being sober while on duty. he shouldn't be drunk while carrying out investigations.

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There is a world of difference between having a drink and being drunk.

It is different for every person and what you define as sober. One person's interpretation is to have nothing another can function perfectly well after one or two pints, me, I can't drink as I hate the feeling but for someone like Morse with 30 years of casual drinking behind him I would think a pint or two at lunchtime would put him as far from drunk as it is possible to get.

Politics and anti-alcohol laws are redefining sober to mean having "nothing at all" and even the press will inaccurately state that someone has been "out drinking" when they have been out with friends and had nothing but coke. People who have an agenda will go all out to twist what they see to suit their needs.

It's a old TV program as well, don't forget that.... The laws were different back in the 1980s and took quite a while to make an impact.

'tler

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That's not "severe withdrawal problems," have you never just fancied a pint? Obviously not. Morse doesn't want alcohol to necessarily get drunk with, he just wants to satisfy a particular taste. Surely you understand the idea of craving a familiar and comforting thing to eat or drink. Oh, and those curious laws about pub openings were introduced in World War I, because the country was constantly under the threat of invasion.

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I'm well known among my friends for drinking other under a table and never showing a sign of being drunk. I have never had a hangover in my life. I prefer hard liquor(usually high-end whiskey or scotch), as I cannot stand the taste of most beer. The beer I do like is usually dark, with high alcohol content(and usually expensive).


You're obviously very young. Your attitude to drinking is very typical of an alcoholic.

If it doesn't effect you, then why do you drink?

Anyway, it will stop being so funny when nobody is around and you're still drinking as much as you can on your own.

Alcohol will always be a problem for you.

---
Scientologists love Narnia, there's plenty of closet space.

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Actually, I'm 45. And to be truly honest, I don't drink very much alcohol now. I have a couple fingers of whiskey every now and then, but I pretty much quit hitting the bars with friends back around when I was about 25.

I quit going cause it was costing too much, and the "fun" just wasn't there anymore for me. I save my money now, and buy the occasional higher quality bottle of whiskey once or twice a year.

And contrary to your statement - alcohol isn't a problem for me. Like I said - "It doesn't effect me very much" I do like the taste of the more expensive whiskeys, but I do not crave it or really need it. I save what I do have for special occasions - usually when having a glass with old friends that I rarely see now.

I do know a few people who are functional alcoholics, though. Most I encountered through work, and I have never gone out drinking with them. For me, drinking really is a social 'thing' since actually getting drunk is difficult for me. I only drink with old friends when they visit now.

I never drink more than half a glass, and even that much is rare.

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Guys get over this drink problem. Morse is a fictional character played incredibly well by the late John Thaw and guess what he solve a huge number of cases on the back of beer. What a dream ticked he had. Nice house, plenty of drink, high IQ and bad news for criminals. The "only" problem he had and this is what I think was his problem with women. They are so lovely. Drink - that was not a problem. His problem with women was. Maybe a new woman problem thread....;/ (Ed)

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I think it was the idea of the producers to portray Morse as an Alcoholic -- law enforcement people often fall prey to the disease so it's no insult. But as a career law enforcement officer of 25 years, I'll bet the constabulary in England do NOT drink alcohol on duty. If they do, more power to them. Agatha Christie portrayed constables having a pint quite often. The English wouldn't drink our American beer -- it's like pee-water.

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Yup, it would probably lead to censure these days. Being charged with a lack of professionalism or some-such thing.

The worst that Morse got was a rollicking off Strange in Driven to Distraction. It would be something far more serious nowadays. It would inevitably involve some kind of one-day HR course in responsible drinking.

'tler

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Lovely responses guys. Christ if only there were more dramas as good as Morse!
A drama of its time. Me speaking as an old school journalist sometimes wishing for paper, the so-called spike and not forgetting the sound of typewriters.

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Just watch The Wench Is Dead. All is reveled there.

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John Thaw died from esophageal cancer.

Too many beers ?

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