this is pretty nerdy, but i'm wondering if anybody bothered to check the kid's math problem at the beginning of part 1.
kermit starts out at 62k/h, piggy chases him after 3 min at 87k/hr, how long before she catches him?
he gets 10min, 26 sec but i think it should be 7m, 26sec. anyone care to check my arithmetic?
I had never noticed that, but you are correct -- the answer the boy gets is wrong. The whole problem is visible on the computer screen, and the difficulty is that he is using the wrong formula. He should be calculating the answer as (T)(V2)/(V1-V2)=(180)(62)/(87-62)=446sec, as you pointed out. But actually he's calculating it as (T)(V1)/(V1-V2)=(180)(87)/(87-62)=626sec. I don't know if the mistake was intentional, but it could be, given the computer's mistake later in the story. A mistake by the computer early on would serve as a warning not to trust it later, although I doubt many people would catch the math error, especially on the first viewing.
-- TopFrog
In A Space Odyssey there is that intentional computer error with the chess game that nobody would catch on their first viewing (and in my case never catch ever) so there is definitely precident for including something like that.
shareI never knew that about 2001. I doubt anyone would notice the mistakes the first time. But it's very interesting, as, previously stated, both computers lead to mortal errors.
From filmsite.org:
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A classic confrontation between computer and human intelligence is staged with a chess game between Frank and HAL - game-playing is a major way to pass the time during the long hours and days of the 18 month journey to Jupiter. Frank's pieces are white (on his side of the chessboard), HAL's are black. The film follows a game already in progress:
Frank: Umm...anyway, Queen takes pawn. OK?
HAL: Bishop takes Knight's pawn.
Frank: Hmm, that's a good move. Er...Rook to King One.
HAL: I'm sorry, Frank. I think you missed it. Queen to Bishop Three. Bishop takes Queen. Knight takes Bishop. Mate.
Frank: Ah...Yeah, looks like you're right. I resign.
HAL: Thank you for a very enjoyable game.
Frank: Yeah. Thank you.
After HAL warns Frank that he has checkmated himself, Frank after only a brief pause, assumes that HAL is right and resigns. [Human fallibility and failings are demonstrated with Frank's loss and abdication to the machine. HAL, however, foreshadowing his future errors, should have said 'Queen to Bishop Six,' not three - he used the wrong notational viewpoint to describe the moves.]
Queen to Bishop Six
Bishop takes Queen
Knight takes Bishop
Checkmate...
HAL wins the chess game over Poole - foreshadowing Poole's death - and possibly Bowman's 'immortality'. [The game is a recreation of one of the most brilliant chess games ever played, known universally as "The Immortal Game" - that occurred between Adolf Anderssen and Lionel Kieseritzky in London in 1851. It was also used in Blade Runner (1982) in the game between Tyrell and Sebastian.]
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By the way, I haven't seen this miniseries yet, but plan on seeing it soon, and just as a note Kubrick really loved these films (though they were obviously released about two decades after 2001).
[deleted]
It's 10 minutes 26 seconds if you start the clock at the time Kermit left, not the time when Miss Piggy started to chase him.
shareIt's 10 minutes 26 seconds if you start the clock at the time Kermit left, not the time when Miss Piggy started to chase him.
That's correct, but the convention on such problems is to measure the time from when the second person (or Muppet, or car, or train leaving New York heading for Chicago) starts the chase. Witness this recent example from Marilyn vos Savant: www.parade.com/articles/editions/2008/edition_05-11-2008/Ask_Marilyn. Disagree with me if you want, but you best think twice before you cross intellectual swords with the woman having the highest IQ on the planet. (It must be true -- it says so in the Guinness Book of Records.)
-- TopFrog
[deleted]
Sorry, but you remember wrong. What shows on the screen is "626 sek," which is 10 minutes, 26 seconds.
share[deleted]
This is probably deliberate. The computer got the ice equation wrong as well.
Remember the commandment: There is only one God - and the computer ain't it!!!
What's more interesting, in original screenplay there WAS explanation to the ice being too thin: some hot water from heating plant (I don't know if I have correct word, sorry) was transfered into the pond at night.
But still - I guess computer could be right about calculations, but that's not the point - computer (as a man himself) will NEVER give a real 100% sure answer to any question. Computer don't have every information about object, surroundings, climax, weather, etc. Maybe now in 21st century is possible to make more valuable tests, but I'm sure that there will be no sure answer to everything in computer.
If you watch a few Kieslowski films you'll notice the absolutely astounding level of symbolism, deception, and depth in his stories. I doubt most people notice even half of these things (I don't know if this was meant to be like that) but as soon as someone points it out to you the stories make so much more sense and there are always new things to notice.
**********************MAJOR SPOILERS FOR PART I********************
Anyway, as far as Dekalog 1 goes what I like is the significance of the milk bottle freezing and the father's mention of it perhaps melting during the day. The computer made the ice thickness calculation (an error) but the father went to check the ice in the dead of night when it was coldest making it impossible for him to notice the machine's error. When the boy goes ice skating the ice is not only insufficient to support the weight (also notice there are TWO boys there while the father boasted of its ability to support THREE) but also thinner as a result of the sun. In the conversation about God the aunt also tells the boy that his father "thought everything could be measured, but it can't always be" perhaps alluding to the actual measurement of the thickness (or maybe I'm reading into it too much).
If you watch part II there's literally dozens of important elements that an untrained viewer will miss.
The father even alludes to this sort of problem in his metaphysics lecture, in which he speculates about the inability to translate poetry, and, in the broader context, to establish truth and meaning from one 'language' into another. In the sense of this episode, faith and science are different languages, and even a totally correct scientific answer cannot supply us with answers regarding life and death. It is really an updated version of:
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,share
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
- Hamlet (1.5.166-7), Hamlet to Horatio
Find y, where y is the amount of minutes piggy chases
before catching kermit.
62 km * (3+y) min
-----------------
60 min
=
87 km * y min
-------------
60 min
~~~
186 km + 62*y km = 87*y km
186 km = 25 * y km
7.44 = y
7 minutes and 26.4 seconds piggy chases
10 minutes and 26.4 seconds kermit travels
THanks for all of the great information!
~Someone who is very bad at math/chess!!