JK Rowling look out! - Troll (1986) Discussion

[–] nzilla 21 years ago

Character names, especially in a little unheard of movie like this, are not copyrighted, I don't think. That said, the only reason why I clicked on the link to this board was to comment on the names myself. Kinda interesting that we're still talking about more or less the same genre, though. I wonder if this is where she really did get the name.

Ignorance is bliss and I'm suicidal.

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[–] tinus42 18 years ago

It must suck to be really named Harry Potter IRL. Imagine your name being hyacked suddenly and people making fun of your name.

Reminiscent of the character Michael Bolton feelings about his famous counterpart in Officespace.

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[–] KelTron42 15 years ago

Just like Michael Bolton from Office Space! lmao

"Just because you ARE a character, doesn't mean you HAVE character."
-Winston Wolf

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[–] babamulon 15 years ago

LOL WTF? Children under 10 should not be permitted on these boards.

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[–] haludek 14 years ago

What a shame she can't be sued for stealing all the fairy-tale creatures and schemes she used in her pathetic novels. She has never thought of anything new, just copied from all the world's mythologies, legends and fairytales. Plus she's a crap writer.

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] nic-of-time 12 years ago

You mean the same way J.R.R. Tolkien used dwarves, elves and wizards with tall pointy hats in his novels? If a writer was not even allowed to take inspiration from existing literature, then we wouldn't have many books allowed.

Case in point: the new Battlestar Galactica. Yes, they reused the names of characters and the general premise of the original series. The rest is a complete reinvention of the sci-fi genre, and arguably superior to the original. Is that "copying" too?

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[–] Opinion02122 8 years ago

Guess that's why she's filthy rich and we're all here talking about a character name she used. BTW I loved her novels. And she's certainly NOT a "crap writer."

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[–] The_Butcher_of_Ibelin 14 years ago

You have a lot of cats, don't you?

Here lies one whose name was writ in water - Keats

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[–] jasir_arafat 13 years ago

you couldn't find a better film to troll. very nice .. very nice..

and look at all the guys who took the bait.. beautiful

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[–] p_yanna 21 years ago

At first I told myself it's just a name, quite a common one as well, it's not as if she named her character Morgoroth or something. On the other hand, the fact that this film is in the same genre, more or less, sounds a bit suspicious... Perhaps she lifted it without really realising it. Heh, that actor can say that he's played Harry Potter!

"Gondor has no pants! Gondor needs no pants!"

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[–] jmarcel 20 years ago

The actor is none other than Boxey from Battlestar Galactica.

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[–] burninblazes 20 years ago

That actor is none other than Atreyu from The Never Ending Story.

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"Why spend your life making someone else's dreams come true?"

-- Ed Wood, the movie

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[–] blackwingrose 14 years ago

The name Harry and the surname Potter are both very common, and there has to have been at least 100 people named Harry Potter in recorded history, so I don't see how Rowling "stole" the name from this film. Also, the name Harry Potter and the fact that this is a fantasy film which features trolls are the only things Rowling's books and this movie have in common. Trolls are a classic fantasy monster and are in countless stories and films.

Anyone who honestly thinks Rowling plagarized this film is just trying way too hard to connect the dots.

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[–] Buckaroo-Robot-Monster 9 years ago

A quick check of the U.S. 1850 census records shows only half a dozen Harry Potter people but there are hundreds of Henry Potter people in 1850. I imagine that the Harry name pops up hundreds or more times in the 20th century.

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[–] nonnie_mupps 20 years ago

No idea how true this is, but I saw an interview with the singer from The Calling (his dad directed this film), and he said that apparently, JK Rowling actually said in an interview once that Troll was where she got a lot of ideas for her books from - including the name Harry Potter.

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[–] 20 years ago

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[–] mikeg2 17 years ago

Why?

Troll was a MAJOR video rental hit in the UK (and has had quite a few network TV showings too). Anyone who watched the likes of Gremlins, Ghoulies or Critters has probably at least heard of Troll.

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[–] obuibo 20 years ago

I'm not sure if my girlfriend is just screwing with me for being a 26 year-old man that loves the Harry Potter series, but she bases her claim of hatred toward the J.K. Rowling series because she claims it's a rip-off of "Troll." We've actually been in fights about this. We may be smirking, but our voices are loud enough.

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[–] just_turi 19 years ago

Well maybe the name rip off was from this movie, and the whole premise stolen from The Worst Witch series?

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[–] burninblazes 19 years ago

It definately rips off The Worst Witch! And Lord of The Rings. Tut tut.

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"Why spend your life making someone else's dreams come true?"

-- Ed Wood, the movie

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[–] reynardtfox 19 years ago

JK also ripped off the Vertigo comic book series "The Books of Magic", which hit the shelves a few years before her book. It's about a young bespectacled, bowl-cut wearing British boy who is destined to become the world's greatest wizard. There are too many other parallels to mention here..

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[–] ebrown2112 19 years ago

"JK also ripped off the Vertigo comic book series "The Books of Magic", which hit the shelves a few years before her book. It's about a young bespectacled, bowl-cut wearing British boy who is destined to become the world's greatest wizard. There are too many other parallels to mention here.."

Where are the lawsuits...?

Coffee is for closers only!

- Alec Baldwin, Glengarry Glen Ross

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[–] young_bash 17 years ago

yeah uhmm she didnt rip off a vertigo comic moron. she wrote the book way before it was released. you cant just write a book and then get it published. raynardtfox you are a *beep* *beep*

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[–] Bladerunner 14 years ago

The Books of Magic Vol. 1 was written in 1990, by Neil Gaiman, the author of Coraline and other novels. J.K. Rowling finished the manuscript for the first Harry Potter book in 1995. Therefore, she most certainly could have ripped this off, as it was published a full five years before she even finished the first Harry Potter manuscript.

Rowling is a rip-off artist and frankly, a lousy author. I enjoyed the first three books, but the next three were lousy. The final book was an absolute disaster. There were enough deus ex machina moments in the book to rival Euripides. The final battle between Harry and Voldemort was an absolute travesty and hopefully will be fixed in the movie.

"...nothing is left of me, each time I see her..." - Catullus

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[–] scpetit-1 17 years ago

so i can write a book about my character Han Solo who is an mild manner airplane pilot who realizes he has to save his country??

Do you think George Lucas would sue me?

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] Arcticexplora 18 years ago

J.K rowling was a poor mother who was probablly just looking for some old movie to watch and she saw troll so she was like "no one knows this movie im just going to borrow a couple of ideas" before you know it shes making millions more than the people who made troll, but in the back of her mind she probablly feels guilty, but no one cares because EVERYONE LOVES harry potter, for some reason i will never be able to figure out....

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] pacheco_25553 15 years ago

"EVERYONE LOVES harry potter"

Not me.

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[–] jess_in_a_box 13 years ago

Nor me

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[–] 19 years ago

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[–] virtualmetal 17 years ago

I heard something completely diferent. That she knew a boy named Harry Potter and just liked the name. After all, it's a common name in England.

-VM-

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[–] Mhjm6 10 years ago

Some original...

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] postdlf 21 years ago

No, character names can't be copyrighted, because copyrights are for works (such as movies) rather than titles or names and don't protect every last element and detail. Trademark protection would apply at the most, but would fail here for the unfortunate makers of (ahem) Troll because 1) people's names typically can't be protected trademarks 2) there would need to be a series rather than just one work for protection to apply 3) JK Rowling's use of the names has stuck in the public mind and has far, far greater strength as a recognizeable mark than the use in (ahem) Troll 4) Rowling almost certainly registered "Harry Potter" as a trademark as soon as she planned to make a series of books, and so would have automatic protection internationally.

On the contrary, she could easily sue anyone wanting to make a sequel to Troll with "Harry Potter" as a character name, even though the first Troll came out before she ever wrote a book. It doesn't even matter if she got the idea for the character name from Troll originally--legally, she could copy from them at the time, but given the strong use she's made of it now, they couldn't reuse it now without a lawsuit. That may not seem fair, but trademark protection isn't focused on protecting originality or who did what first, but on keeping the wrong parties from making use of a name or mark that has a strong association in the public mind with another source. And I can't say I know of anyone who, when they hear "Harry Potter" thinks "Troll."

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[–] iboptimistic 19 years ago

Hi everyone. I'm really getting a kick out of this message board because as a child, I was obsessed with Troll, and it was a landmark of my youth(don't judge me, I've completely outgrown it and havn't seen it for over a decade).
I actually DO think"Troll" when I hear "Harry Potter", and I can hear the voice of that lady-turned-pixie teasing "Harry Potter Juuuuuuuuuuuunior" in my head when I hear the name.But then again, I'm an unusual one. Who else leaves New York City to go to UCE at Birmingham lol. Those brummied are alot of fun INIT MATES.

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[–] junxs 18 years ago

Hey I went to UCE too, last place i thought id see that mentioned was a message board for "TROLL".

JK is a ripoff, shes taken ideas from lots of other successful movies/books and created her own little fantasy.

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[–] Wellingtonian 19 years ago

I agree that J K Rowling's Harry Potter works definitely have an incredibly strong public recognition associated with that name and genre (much more than 'Troll' - though I haven't seen/read either). The recent domain name cases may have changed the position of names as trademarks (as being internet domain names).

As to your point about needing a series rather than just one work for protection to apply, I'm not so sure that the requirement for protection is more than one work. However, the work/product must have garnered enough of a reputation or goodwill as to be distinctive. This is probably unlikely for this B-grade (?) movie.

With regard to trademark protection, IP (Intellectual Property) is very territorially specific. To achieve protection, Rowling would need to get the Harry Potter trademark registered in each country that she seeks protection for the name. She may have done this, I don't know. But there is no such thing as an international trademark....however, international agreements (e.g the TRIPS agreement) would allow international enforcement of such trademarks by respective countried. For example, Levi Jeans have their trademarks registered in the USA, UK, Australia, New Zealand .... (i.e. in each country where they seek protection of their trademark).

At the moment, it is true that Rowling's works predominate the use of that name. Rowling could sue the Troll-makers for diluting the goodwill and reputation in her character protagonist if they chose to rip the character off in some way. She could also have a claim in passing off (common law tort).

Thanks for your post, it was really well written and made a lot of sense. Currently I am studying IP at university, so I would be keen to hear any more points you have.

Cheers :0)

Dan

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[–] 19 years ago

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[–] cathy64 20 years ago

If you think the use of the name sounds a bit suspicious you should watch the movie The Land of Faraway based an a book called Mio My Mio. The movie was a low budget flick made in 1987 staring Christophor Lee and Timothy Bottom and has a lot of the same story line that the Harry Potter books have. Right down to the mean aunt and uncle invisibility cloak and even a sword to defeat an evil wizard. Also you guessed it the same genre, something else to think about (wink)

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[–] midgetjane 20 years ago

There's also the strange coincidence that Harry's father is supposed to be a children's author, possibly insinuating that he's the real author of Harry Potter books and used the happenings at the apartment building and his son as inspiration. Just a thought...

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[–] megawhoosits 20 years ago

Actually, the father in this flick writes book REVIEWS, though the swinging bachelor upstairs is named Peter Dickinson, possibly after the fantasy author of the same name. In the movie though, they mention nothing of THAT guy being a writer. Funny that two recognizable names of the fantasy world would happen to be in the same low-budget 80's film.

Aside from the name Harry Potter though, and the fact that the main character is a young guy of that name who lucks into saving his sister at the end (circumstance is a big deal in the Harry Potter books, not criticizing), no other similarity remains. I think there would have to be a group of striking similarities for someone to sue, and even then it's hard to prove.

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[–] dave-1308 20 years ago

I don't think any sueing is necessary here, but there's an interesting discussion point that's been missed out on. Check out the cast names as well as the character names for this film. I see two Harry Potters, and two Lockharts. Still nothing to write home about, but an interesting point - someone inventing as many characters as JK probably would borrow names from things they'd seen in the past.

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[–] barbieqkiller 20 years ago

The Movie Mio my Mio is based on the very popular childrens book by one of swedens most famous authors, Astrid Lindgren. I highly recommend all of her books for all you fantasy fans out there =)
I believe the book was written 1960, the movie is ok I suppose.

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[–] lexid523 20 years ago

I'm quite sure it's a coincidence. I remember reading that she always liked the surname "Potter", because of some friends she had in the 70s, and also the name "Harry"; she said she would have named her new son Harry if the books hadn't become so popular.

Life is too important to be taken seriously. -Oscar Wilde

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[–] TheYouthfulMrsCoulter 20 years ago

Is it true that the director of this movie has a son who is the lead singer of a band called the calling?

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[–] ar87 20 years ago

Rowling just ripped off a lot of different movies and books for her Harry Potter series. There's nothing original in those. Though they are still entertaining.

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[–] ADSHORETECH 20 years ago

Rowling did not "rip off" anything. mention of Joseph Campbells "hero myth" formula was made in a previous post. Campbell discusses several aspects of the Hero Myth. 1. The call to adventure, 2. reluctant hero, 3. crossing the threshold. 4. Magical item 5. a mentor. 6. Trial by fire, etc...All of these are common in virtually every culture on this planet.

For example, Star Wars follows this formula, The Arthurian legends, Harry Potter, Gilgamesh, Beowulf any number of native american and celtic legends, Japanese, Russian, etc...J.K. Rowling used a formula that is virtually universal for "storytelling". The fact that she used names that appeared in other media, whether it be purposeful or not is irrelevant, her stories, although formulaic, are original as no other stories with those specific characters, place names and situations existed as a whole prior. Are there any other stories out there that Harry Potter exists in other than "Troll"? are any of the other characters from the Harry Potter novels found in any other books or media not originated by J.K. Rowling?

You might as well say that Rowling ripped off George Lucas, who ripped off the Arthurian legends, who ripped off Beowulf...

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[–] Induna 20 years ago

Actually Star Wars 'ripped off' this film.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0051808/

Nothing is original, especially Harry Potter.

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[–] constantcreations 19 years ago

Some of the first things I learned in film school were:
1. Every "new" idea is just an old idea rehashed with a new look.
2. Unless your rich, you have almost no chance at becoming famous for your work - would you give someone millions of dollars to make a movie that could bomb/spend millions to print a book no one might ever read - so you pretty much have to rely on dumb luck to be famous.

So what's the point of all this...yes, JK Rowling probably did get a lot of her ideas from other sources. George Lucas did get his idea for Star Wars from an Akira Kurosawa film - The Hidden Fortress (but he also funded Kurosawa's work, so did Stephen Speilberg and he took ideas too - Seven Samuria...The Magnificent Seven).

and...

Why is JK Rowling getting noticed for her work...dumb luck people. She got lucky. There are thousands of fantasy genre books out there that no one even glanses at and Harry Potter could have been one of those books...but she got lucky. People developed a real interest in her work. Congratulations!

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[–] humbleradio 19 years ago

>(but he also funded Kurosawa's work, so did Stephen Speilberg and he took ideas too - >Seven Samuria...The Magnificent Seven).

Seven Samurai (1954) came out before The Magnificent Seven (1960).

HR

One more transfusion, and I'll be a full-blooded Irishman.
-Peter Cushing in Island of Terror

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[–] Diaboliqa666 19 years ago

"2. Unless your rich, you have almost no chance at becoming famous for your work - would you give someone millions of dollars to make a movie that could bomb/spend millions to print a book no one might ever read - so you pretty much have to rely on dumb luck to be famous."

I don't agree with you there I am afraid, especially on the book thing. If that was the case why would there be anuthors such as Stepehen King, J.K and Koontz to name not even a handful. You do not need to be rich to be famous, luck maybe but not money, as long as you really have talent and work hard. I also don't agree with point one either. I wrtie and I am happy to say that my writing is not an onld idea rehashed at all.

If you really believe this is the case I do feel pitty for you, it seems a rather bleak and depressive way to think to me.

It vexes me. I'm terribly vexed
change the world:
http://groups.msn.com/MinionsTriadIncorporated

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[–] ebrown2112 19 years ago

1) "The Magnificent Seven" is a remake of "The Seven Samurai," not the other way around!!!

2) "Why is JK Rowling getting noticed for her work...dumb luck people. She got lucky. There are thousands of fantasy genre books out there that no one even glanses at and Harry Potter could have been one of those books...but she got lucky. People developed a real interest in her work. Congratulations!"

J.K. Rowling is getting noticed for her work because the books are good!

Coffee is for closers only!

- Alec Baldwin, Glengarry Glen Ross

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[–] matttattack 14 years ago

If J.K. rowling really was just ripping other stories off, then there is no reason why hers (a BOOK mind you) would be immensely more popular and well-liked. Claiming that the use of fantasy elements is a rip-off is just absurd.

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[–] virtualmetal 17 years ago

Well said.

She also made no bones about using allready known myths and such. Which is only natural. Even the Spiderwick books have the same critters and mythological magic items.

-VM-

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] JoelBranstein 17 years ago

So you're saying that because both films have a princess in them that one rips off the other? I don't see many direct correlations between star wars and that kurosawa movie other than some very generic themes - I'ms ure I'll get a response here almost three years after the original post LOL

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[–] FunkyDragon 15 years ago

"So you're saying that because both films have a princess in them that one rips off the other? I don't see many direct correlations between star wars and that kurosawa movie other than some very generic themes"

Lucas himself said he got the idea of introducing the events of Star Wars from the droids' POVs by watching The Hidden Fortress and seeing two peasants, practically nobodies in the grand events surrounding them, bicker and argue their way through the film. He fashioned R2D2 and C3PO after those two peasants. And then there was the old general trying to protect a princess, etc. However, I wouldn't say he ripped it off - he claims to have borrowed, and he gives credit where it is due (check out the annotated screenplay for Star Wars).

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[–] FunkyDragon 15 years ago

And George Lucas openly admits to having borrowed a bit of structure from The Hidden Fortress. So when will Rawling acknowledge her use of Orpheus, Lord of the Rings, Troll, etc?

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[–] x_99 19 years ago

Alex Band, the lead singer of The Calling, is the son of Charles Band, a producer and writer on the film. Charles band is also the founder of Wizard Entertainment and a director in his own right.

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[–] kcwells 18 years ago

Correct. Charles Band originally created Empire Pictures in the 80's. After that went under, he went on to found Full Moon Pictures, one of the largest producers of B-Grade horror and sci-fi movies of the past 20 years. One of their most well-known franchises is the Puppetmaster series. Charles Band produced many of Full Moon's releases, and even directed quite a few as well. Full Moon Pictures encompassed many subsidiary divisions that specialized in action, suspense, creature-feature, etc. In 2001, Band changed the name of Full Moon Pictures to Shadow Entertainment to reflect the change he saw in the type and feel of the movies they were producing. Around 2003, the name was changed back and in 2005, Band created Wizard Entertainment.

The Band family is a very creative one. Charles' father, Albert, was a wellknown filmmaker. Charles' brother, Richard, is a composer and has written the scores for many movies, including many of the Full Moon releases. And as many of these posts have pointed out, Charles' son, Alex, fronts the band The Calling.

The movie Troll is sort of a Band family production, as it was produced by Band's Empire Pictures label. Albert, Charles, and Charles' then-wife, Debra Dion, all produced the movie. All three also made guest appearances in the movie, along with Albert's wife, Jacquelyn. Richard Band composed the score. Lastly, Troll director/writer (and special-effects guru extraordinaire) John Carl Buechler has worked with Band on many other movies as well.

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[–] Blue_Snaggletooth 18 years ago

JK Rowling should be sued for plagiarism!.As someone else already mentioned she rips off other films/books all the time.

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[–] virtualmetal 17 years ago

It's a pretty sad world we live in when it comes down to sueing all and sundry for using age old myths in their books. Don't forget, everything you claim she copied exsisted in myth long before any of these books were written. People have told stories for thousands of years, so it's natural for some of these things to become embedded in our minds.

-VM-

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