The goofs section says that igniting SRB-A should have resulted in the shuttle exploding by making a u-turn and hitting the ground and that SRB-B wasn't really overheating. I always thought that when Jinx initiated the program, it actually did cause a thermal curtain failure, not just a false alarm. If it were just a false alarm, anyone could've seen right through that. Jinx caused the computer to initiate the sequence to ignite SRB-B.
shareI noticed the same thing & I've already sent through a recomendation for deleting the reference to said (non-)'goof'.
Pissing people off on the internet is a victimless crime, like punching someone in the dark.
Mission Control only ignited the one SRB. Doing so during a "false alarm" would've only resulted in the shuttle crashing. The second one was actually igniting. It's not a mistake. Yes, it should be deleted.
shareWe actually have no idea if both SRB's were ignited or not. As the first SRB had not already been ignited.
I watched the movie part a few minutes ago, when the supposed SRB button was pushed. It looked like the Time Coincidence Module Power Button was pushed in. This was for the Flight Readiness Test Firing. Booster B had not been ignited yet.
Then, the Thermal Curtain that keeps heat from the shuttles main engines and the SRB's supposedly started failing.
The decision was to light both SRB's and send them into space, or there would have been a catastrophic explosion on the launch pad. Neither SRB had been ignited when the SRB button was supposedly pushed and the SRB's would have ignited. Thus, giving equal boost to the spacecraft. Remember, only Booster B was supposedly overheating. It had not been ignited.
Now, what I don't understand, is that the same button, but from a slightly different angle, was pushed for the Main Engine test and then a few seconds later, for the SRB's to both ignite. The same power on switch, was used to turn on all five engines normally, or should have been. it would have been a backup switch if the on board comp had not fired the engines automatically.
I can only guess that the SRB's had been disabled by electronic means, to let the same button, only fire the main engines. I'm guessing again, that when they got the shuttle ready for space in those few seconds. That the same power on switch was then capable of firing all 5 engines. Remember, that there are 3 liquid fueled engines on the shuttle itself and two SRB engines.
I watched this last week and I figured if they didnt launch they were dead and if they did launch they were dead since they didnt go through training to withstand the immense G force. So either way they were dead. But I suppose that launching them MAY have been preferable in the circumstances. At least that way they MAY have survived, instead of *definitely* dying.. :p
shareI agree that Jinz did light booster and the computer said they had a thermal curtain failure. Whether that could really happen is beyond me, I'm no NASA expert. Frankly, I don't care, cause if they didn't light it, shuttle explodes, the main cast dies, and the light-hearted family comedy turns into a horrific tragedy. Since they did light it, they were lauched into space, and the movie kept going so we could enjoy our PG rating. Besides, all of the main cast was on that ship, you knew they could not kill them. This is why this movie is a work of FICTION. Keep in mind, this movie was released right AFTER the Challenger explosion, which was caused by a faulty ring in the SRB-B. For all we know, they may have changed that sequence after that horrible incident.
Now, don't get me wrong, I love to "nerd" it up over what could possibly happen or not happen in reality, but at some point, you have to remember that it is just a story. If EVERY story in the world from the beginning of civilization had to be factually accurate in every detail, I think we would've killed each other into extintion by now! Our society thrives on exagerration and lies. Just ask any male about the last fish he caught, or how long his penis is. Or just ask any female what her age/weight is.
Okay, you may condemn me now!
This film is part of what inspired me to become an astronaut and/or aerospace engineer. I absolutely ADORE this film.
That being said, there are countless factual errors with the launch sequence alone. However, I do NOT hold this against the film. I treat films as if they exist in their own universe, with different rules.
But let me be the "nerd" and discuss some aspects here...
First of all, no, they would not have been killed by the "extreme" g-forces. Max g-loading during a Shuttle launch is 3 g's. The centrifuge at the U.S. Space and Rocket Center in Huntsville, AL (which is open to the public to experience) advertises a sustained g-load of 4 g's. I know for a fact that many roller coasters exceed 5 g's in the eyeballs-down direction (where blood pulls out of your head into your butt and feet) for a brief second or two at a time. Astronauts experience eyeballs-in g-forces, which is far easier on the body.
The biggest thing that bugs me about the "thermal curtain failure" issue was that they only manually ignited one of the boosters. Booster B WAS overheating, but they had absolutely NO idea exactly when it would ignite--they just knew it would. If both boosters are not ignited within milliseconds of each other, you have a very bad day. I believe the technically correct resolution would have been to manually ignite BOTH boosters. The irony in this scenario is that it COULD have been a false indication, but Launch Control would have ignited both boosters and sent them on their way.
Another point. Any idea how long the main engines were firing before the boosters were lit? I'll guarantee you that if they were firing for more than 30 seconds, there would not have been enough LH2 and LO2 in the external tank for them to reach orbital velocity. Main engines are usually lit 6 seconds before launch. They usually don't have 30 seconds of burn time remaining after a nominal MECO.
Final point (at this time). This vehicle WAS NOT ready for launch. It did not have any guidance information loaded. There is no "button" to ignite the engines. There is a specific computer program that's loaded into the Shuttle's GPC's to coordinate an engine test or a launch. There was no launch program input--it was just an engine test program. The Shuttle would not have known what direction to fly in! Theoretically, Andie could have flown it, but she hadn't been training for a Shuttle mission and probably wouldn't have been able to. (yes, astronauts DO train to fly the vehicle into orbit if guidance system fails). Would be pretty awesome to attempt.
The centrifuge at the U.S. Space and Rocket Center in Huntsville, AL (which is open to the public to experience) advertises a sustained g-load of 4 g's.
The irony in this scenario is that it COULD have been a false indication, but Launch Control would have ignited both boosters and sent them on their way.
Another point. Any idea how long the main engines were firing before the boosters were lit? I'll guarantee you that if they were firing for more than 30 seconds, there would not have been enough LH2 and LO2 in the external tank for them to reach orbital velocity. Main engines are usually lit 6 seconds before launch. They usually don't have 30 seconds of burn time remaining after a nominal MECO.
Would be pretty awesome to attempt.
Well... roll program was performed late, they never mentioned throttling DOWN when entering the area of Max Q (which would likely kill them and likely destroy the shuttle), they only throttled UP to 60 something percent (after waiting longer than they should have)... I won't keep going on about the launch issues either... and you're right, it would be awesome to attempt or just see attempted in real life... but as far as the movie goes, Andie/Kevin/Launch Control pretty much killed them all in the launch (they're luck they're just in a movie).
I'm very late in the discussion of this topic (Im cleaning out all my VHS tapes). When watching a movie like this, gotta enjoy it for what it is and turn off nerd mode. Its fun for kids 7~14 or so, its targeted viewers.
I mean, Armageddon (from hack director Michael Bay) is 10x less realistic with its stupid 3 day mission readiness for TWO shuttles to launch (to design and build super boosters, training, etc) then somehow RE-FUEL at a space station with room for 15 people with only 1 guy on it in which they decide to make it SPIN to make it faster to refuel... while docking at 100mph, then hook up the gas-pumps through the front door of the shuttles?! Still, its a fun Bruce Willis saves the Earth (again) movie with music-videos.
Anyway, the big whole premise is having a robot (with tiny legs) that is more advance than anything we have today... from a movie that is almost 20 years old.
:)
This is going to be a bit long winded, but I love analyzing stuff like this. To be honest, I think all this confusion is caused by the tech who gets up and yells "Ignite Booster A" across the room, as well as Andy telling Launch Control "Light Booster A goddammit and launch us or we're gonna explode!" Those two dialogs convey the idea that Booster B is already lit - which it is not.
It has been mentioned several times in this thread - the premise of the "Thermal Curtain Failure" plot device was that the failure of the heat shield (the "Thermal Curtain") caused a runaway temperature condition which would lead inexorably to spontaneous ignition of SRB-B. My interpretation is that the NASA techs had until the fuel reached autoignition temperature (the red hitting the top of the graphic) to light both boosters simultaneously. After that, SRB-B would start thrusting before SRB-A, which would cause an unstable flight and possibly a crash. There is also a flash where the tech says "Booster B is near ignition, it's gonna light", which tells us that according to the information they had (which was the false data being fed to them by Jinx) it had not actually ignited yet, but the temperature was beyond the point where they could prevent it from igniting on its own. When they pressed the button, the electric ignitors lit both boosters at the same time.
As far as the button used, it is my understanding that the launch computer system controls the actual launch sequence. Once the mission is declared "Go For Launch", they press the button at T-minus 10. This initiates the gantry retraction, then umbilical separation, then main engine ignition, and finally at zero SRB ignition. If you listen to the preparations being done in Launch Control for the engine test, you can hear someone say "Solid Rocket Boosters A and B, ignition off".
After Zach makes the call to launch them, the tech gets up and yells "Ignite Booster A".. Then as he comes over to the black tech he tells him "Arm booster Ignitors" (plural), which to me means arm ignitors for both boosters. When he says "Light it", a tech presses the "Power On" button. If you go back and look again, it is NOT the same button from two different angles, it is two different buttons). The FRF "Power" button is at the black tech's station at the end of the row(there is a "Discrete Input Test" button next to it). The Launch "Power On" button (the button next to it is blank) is at a white tech's station that is nowhere near the black tech.
It is entirely possible that the launch computer detected the engines already firing and ran right to the end of the "T-minus 10" sequence - which retracted the gantry, severed the umbilicals, and fired the booster ignitors all the same time.
I hope this helps clear up some confusion... :)
What gets me is that if Max the robot could initiate one booster to start, then why couldn't he have started both boosters in the first place?
shareI haven't seen the movie in years, but my recollection is that Max is the kid, not the robot. And, the robot didn't have the kind of access to actually start ANY boosters. Remember what the robot did was arrange for a FALSE ALARM to be produced by the monitoring computers so that the control-room PEOPLE would fire the boosters in response, thinking that was the only way to avoid disaster.
shareI always enjoy this kind of discussion. My thought with this (as it was when I first saw it) was...
"Who the hell is going to let a bunch of kids onto an on-the-pad shuttle, much less a fully fueled one!" (Remember, the ET wouldn't have the liquid fuel on it until it was close to launch time; so even if the SRBs were lit, the liquid-fueled rockets couldn't have been used, and the results wouldn't have been pretty.)
But, as others have said, you have to go with the flow on these kind of movies.