Early in the film, both rotten and sid tell nancy something like "sex is ugly" and stated "none of us *beep* if i recall. I`m not much into the punk scene, and didn`t knew about this. Is that an accurate portrait of the sex pistols opinions at the time? And were they indeed celibatary? Despising sex is a general trait in the punk culture?
share[deleted]
Yeah, i read somewhere john lydon loathes this film. But again, which ideals and opinions regarding sex did the sex pistols hold at that time?
share[deleted]
Steve Jones has said that when he was in the Pistols, he didn't care about talking to the fans after shows, he was just looking for a blowjob. So that at least answers that for him.
sharehaha I think that is a bit revsionist & mostly completely untrue... Rotten did say things about sex being ugly & unnecessary etc. but most of what he said then (and now) was designed to shock, to swim against the current... plus he has a fantastic sense of humour that you may have noted over the years.. he himself may have found his sexual side awkward but while he was saying this sort of thing guitarist Steve Jones was screwing anything that moved... as portrayed in the Roch'n'Roll swindle.. my remeberances of this era are that most young women who I knew were "punks" were very expressive individuals & more than acquainted with their libido... after all they were mostly teenagers attempting to break the mould so sex, drugs & rock'n'roll were all part of the zeitgeist... nice to see that such myths still exist tho... very sweet ;-)
shareThank you for your answers!! My main doubt had to do with the way that line was delivered by the actor who played rotten. He said that like an absolute true, which came as kinda awkward to me! After all, most people associate punk rock (as rock in general) with the good old "sex, drugs and rock and roll". I had no idea of the myths behind the punk movement- like the reaction against hippie ideals, like phantom said. I don`t have, to be honest, a clear idea of what punk is - punk as a subculture and social expression. I had the vague notion it had to do with individual affirmation, to which the idea of denying your sexual side becomes pretty strange! So, elrae, the punk girls you knew are much closer of the cloudy idea i had of punk:) But again, i think the way rotten was represented in the film was the main problem. He seemed like an arrogant chav from the suburbs, and not a bright one. His wit, sarcasm and funny rudeness were not represented at all! If the actor had nuanced a bit more the way he delivered that line ( the way rotten would have said it) and made the scene more ambiguous, it would have made sense. But since the only thing this film got right was the name sid vicious, i don`t think that was a priority!
shareI did read in John's biography that he wasnt really interested in women much until he joined the Sex Pistols and it probably wasnt until he met Nora,who is now his wife,and he was 21,i think ?,when he started seeing her.
If you want to read about what John and the experience with the Sex pistols was really like.i highly recommend you read his biography " Rotten:No irish,no blacks,no dogs " .I havent read any of Sid or Nancy's biographies yet,but i'd like to.
Even though this film isnt entirely accurate,i still love watching it !.Gary Oldman and Chloe Webb are brilliant !.One thing though,I've said it before,and I'll say it again,i wish Tim Roth had taken the role of John.I think he could have played the part better.It was offered to him,but he turned it down.Tim and Gary are friends in real life too !.
My main doubt had to do with the way that line was delivered by the actor who played rotten.Good thing to keep in mind here is that Drew Schofield, the actor who played John (poorly) never met him until after the film had already been shot. This movie presents an even more inaccurate picture of John (and the Pistols, in general) than it does of Sid & Nancy...which is saying quite a bit. share
Sid told his mom once when he was 16 that he didn't get what people see in sex.
share<<Sid told his mom once when he was 16 that he didn't get what people see in sex.>>
He may have said that. However, he also, when asked why he was seeing Nancy, answered, "Good p u s s y." I can't cite it -- maybe someone can -- I just remember this from god knows where.
Iggy Pop, who spent a night or two with hNancy, said she had "something," a je ne sais quoi appeal.
So, I guess Nancy showed Sid what people see in sex. She was alleged to have been a professional and I guess she really knew what she was doing.
And, well, they loved each other.
Isn't there a longstanding myth that Sid was a rent boy? In Please Kill Me someone mentions seeing John with a swedish groupie at the Winterland show, and the band was formed in an shop called SEX, and half their entourage were sex workers. That squelching thing just sounds like a crazy urban legend, do you think 16-25 year olds really put that much thought into sex?
share<<Isn't there a longstanding myth that Sid was a rent boy?>>
I know some of the Ramones were and even wrote a song about it. Sid might have been. Who knows?
<<In Please Kill Me someone mentions seeing John with a swedish groupie at the Winterland show, and the band was formed in an shop called SEX, and half their entourage were sex workers. That squelching thing just sounds like a crazy urban legend, do you think 16-25 year olds really put that much thought into sex? >>
I think they just really want to have sex and are too scared of rejection to admit it. I can see how some people's fear of their own emotions can lead to the invention of something as ridiculous as "squelching." And let's be honest -- there is a lot of sex without love -- but without any emotion at all? Weird.
There's this:
http://www.lettersofnote.com/2011/02/what-makes-nancy-so-great-by-sidney.html
I 'm not sure if that's what you were looking for?
I find it to be kinda sweet in a weird sort of way :p
I've just finished reading a couple of books about these and apparently Punks were into something called Squelching which was having sex without showing any emotion or making any noise !
I was waiting for my hearse what came next was so much worse
I don't remember hearing the "sex is ugly" line, but I do remember Johnnie saying "sex is boring" when Nancy tries to squeeze in between Sid & Johnnie on the floor of that apartment...
This movie was on Ovation last night; couldn't sleep, so I watched it again. I think Gary Oldman's portrayal of Sid was extraordinary. Chloe Webb did a great job too.
I am sure a lot of the film was fictionalized, but the sad truth is, they both became pathetic junkies.
I put the fun in dysfunction!
Maybe in England punks may have regarded sex with disdain, but New York punks bands like the Deadboys, Richard Hell & the Voidoids and the Ramones got plenty of action.
The Deadboys especially were noted pervs and it showed in their lyrics, such as their lovely song, "Caught with the Meat in Your Mouth".
Cheers...
I always took that line as, something Lydon('s character in the movie) said to make a point, but wasn't meant to be taken literally. Sex was always portrayed in movies as this wonderful, sensuous, beautiful thing, and he was just stating it as a fact, that "sex is ugly." It's sweaty, gross, disgusting at times, and is rarely ever like it's portrayed in movies (well, at least not XXX ones...). He was just making a point, that sex is so ugly, they don't partake in it. Not that they're celibate, but almost as if to say, it's more trouble than it's worth, and it's easier to just masturbate & be done with it, than actually engage in the act with another person & waste time caring if they got theirs. Punk attitude was all about selfishness, and I could see how a punker at the time might look at having to make sure their partner got off, too, as not their concern. It was not to be taken literally that ALL PUNKS are like a sect of monks with this vow of celibacy! It's not even "punk" at all; just something sort of shocking that would make you think, like a lot of things that Lydon said.
Besides, I was never even sure myself if Lydon actually said that in real life, or it was just put in to make the movie interesting & develop the sense of character.
¸«¤º°»«ëÕ|{¥(V)°º¤»¸
I can't understand your crazy moon language.
The OP posted this: "Early in the film, both rotten and sid tell nancy something like "sex is ugly" and stated "none of us *beep* if i recall. I`m not much into the punk scene, and didn`t knew about this. Is that an accurate portrait of the sex pistols opinions at the time? And were they indeed celibatary? Despising sex is a general trait in the punk culture?"
My take isn't anything complicated. If you remember, Johnny Rotten first tells her that all Americans do is think about sex, and then brushes her off and insults her. Sid follows suit. I think they were both tired and drunk and/or stoned, and just wanted to sleep. Johnny popped off with something insulting about Americans in general and Nancy in particular. Plus I think neither of them respected their groupies at first, or at least her. She was kind of a 'camp follower" sort. It was only later when Sid took up with her that he was willing to have sex with her, but then Sid was thinking of her as a girlfriend, not a groupie/camp follower. John and maybe the rest of them still saw her as just a skanky groupie, so still didn't like or respect her much.
[deleted]
I get the impression the punk views on sex differed from the popular clichés of that time. I think people involved with that scene were more likely to be celibate, gay, bisexual, androgynous or anything different. And maybe they joked about different views on sexuality just for shock value.
sharePunks took the stance of being the opposite of the popular bands and attitudes of the time. If you recall, when John says they don't have sex he also says something like "None of your free hippie love here". Punks were angry, violent, short-haired and "anti" many things, while hippies were soft, sexy, hairy, into "free love" and open sexuality, peace, love, etc. People like John and Sid (and I) who grew up in the '60s and '70s saw hippies all during our childhood and youth, and punk was a reaction against them.
shareA lot of what Rotten says is just for shock and headlines. He contradicts himself often.
share