Cecil, gay?


he seemed like such a homo, for those who have read the book, is this mentioned?

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I haven't read the book, but I don't think he was gay. He was just really old fashioned and conservative and it was a very different time. He also felt embarrassed that Lucy and her mom had to see that, although I don't think Lucy minded much, lol I didn't either, Julian Sands is hot. Anyways, yeah Cecil has a strict personality.

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The book was published in 1908 England. I'm confident in saying a novel with a gay character would not have been published in England during those times. Forester's Maurice did not publish until decades later, in 1971, after his death. Maurice was undoubtedly a gay character. A good movie, recommended.

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I have read the book and I definitely don't remember any suggestion that he's gay. He just represents the kind of world that Lucy is growing out of - very strict and Victorian. He's just very vain and uptight, is all.

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I have read the book and I definitely don't remember any suggestion that he's gay.


I don't know. Check out these excerpts (Penguin Classics edition, 1978)

p. 104, Freddy is talking to his mother about Mr Beebe:

'You know Mr Beebe's funny way, when you never quite know what he means. He said: "Mr Vyse is an ideal bachelor." I was very cute. I asked him what he meant. He said: "Oh, he's like me - better detached." I couldn't make him say any more, but it set me thinking. Since Cecil has come after Lucy he hasn't been so pleasant, at least - I can't explain'
' You never can, dear. But I can. You are jealous of Cecil because he may stop Lucy knitting you silk ties.'
The explanation seemed plausible, and freddy tried to accept it. But at the back of his brain there lurked a dim mistrust. Cecil praised one too much for being athletic. Was that it? Cecil made one talk in his way, instead of letting one talk in one's one way. This tired one. Was that it? And Cecil was the kind of fellow ho would never wear another fellow's cap. Unaware of his own profundity, Freddy checked himself. He must be jealous, or he would not dislike a man for such foolish reasons.

But maybe he's just asexual - p. 106

He was medieval. Like a Gothic statue. Tall and refined, with shoulders tha seemed braced square by an effort of the will, and a hed that was tilted a little higher than the usual level of vision, he resembled tthose fastidious saints who guard the portals of a French cathedral. Well, educated, well endowed, and not deficient physically, he remained in the grip of a certain devil whom the modern world knows as self-consciousness, and whom the medieval, with dimmer vision, worshipped as asceticism. A Gothic statue umplies celibacy, just as a Greek statue implies fruition, and perhaps this was what Mr Beebe meant. And Freddy, who ignored history and art, perhaps meant the same when he failed to imagine Cecil wearing another fellow's cap.

So, whichever, gay or celibate, it doesn't seem likely that Lucy is going to be getting much.

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what do think of lucy is she naive and timid ?

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Cecil is a prissy aesthete, a snobbish and class-conscious man who lives with his mother. He is condescending of the "country folk" and looks down on the working class characters, George and Mr. Emerson. His gleeful response that he has "no profession" is a slight that is meant to imply he lives the life of a gentleman, thus, has no need to work for money.

-- If Ewan McGregor were a lollipop I'd be a diabetic strumpet --

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I think this kind of questions (about the sexuality of the character(s)) has more to do with the people who makes them, than with the character(s) itself.

No, he is not gay. He is a man from another time with different values and different attitudes towards women and life in general. He is a snobbish edwardian, a prig. Somebody who have grown in a very repressed society and did nothing to change that, unlike Lucy.

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Mr. Beebe as played by Simon Callow is a total queer.

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From where do you get this suggestion? Because you just like saying something is queer? And do you mean the literal meaning of the word queer, as in odd, or do you mean gay? For his time, he was a little odd. It takes place a hundred years ago, in a different way that (most) of us think now. Mr Beebe is a parish priest, who doesn't necessarily conform to all of society's restrictions at the time. And if he IS gay, you never see it. He displays no interest towards anyone. If anything, he seems keen on seeing Lucy find a life where she can be herself and not be the conventional Edwardian wife who wasn't expected to really think or express herself.

I know it's hard, but realize that life a short hundred years ago wasn't the same as it is now.

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He is "effete".

A snobbish gentleman who enjoys the arts and the pleasures of the good life without ever having to make an honest living. He embodies the upper crust of Victorian society.

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"Mr. Beebe as played by Simon Callow is a total queer."

I think Mr. Beebe has the hots for Lucy. You see after Freddy tells him that Lucy and Cecil's are engaged? It hits him like a ton of bricks, because he thought he had a chance. Then he has to go out and be nonchalant and congratulate them. Then later, when Freddy tells Mr. Beebe that Lucy has dumped Cecil? Mr. Beebe spares no time rushing up to the house to see Lucy, because he thinks he can catch her on the rebound. Two strikes, Beebe.

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Yes, I think this is right.

The OP is offensive in using the epithet "homo" but it's still an interesting question to ponder which if any characters are meant to be gay given that the author was gay. I have not read the book, but in the film I think it is Freddy who seems most likely to be gay.

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I honest to goodness think some people just stand around looking for something to be offended by!! Why on earth are you offended by the word HOMO? Nobody is offended by the word homosexual, and HOMO is just shortening the word. I swear you must be a miserable person

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You couldn't be more wrong. First, GLAAD:

http://www.glaad.org/reference/offensive

Offensive: "homosexual" (n. or adj.)
Preferred: "gay" (adj.); "gay man" or "lesbian" (n.); "gay person/people"
[...]
DEFAMATORY LANGUAGE
"fag," *beep* "dyke," "homo," "sodomite," and similar epithets
The criteria for using these derogatory terms should be the same as those applied to vulgar epithets used to target other groups: they should not be used except in a direct quote that reveals the bias of the person quoted. So that such words are not given credibility in the media, it is preferred that reporters say, "The person used a derogatory word for a lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender person."


Now, The Advocate:

http://www.advocate.com/politics/media/2014/03/22/nyt-trend-story-word -homosexual-offensive

A story in today's Fashion & Style section of The New York Times — "The Decline and Fall of the 'H' Word'" — lets readers know that getting clinical about coupledom is a major faux pas:

"To most ears, it probably sounds inoffensive. A little outdated and clinical, perhaps, but innocuous enough: homosexual.

"But that five-syllable word has never been more loaded, more deliberately used and, to the ears of many gays and lesbians, more pejorative."


The story notes the newspaper's past, in which it was targeted heavily by the likes of GLAAD to stop using the overly clinical term. The Times made a change to its policy way back in 1987, using "gay" instead. So it seems this trend has some pretty long roots.

The paper points out that using the word nowadays means joining the ranks of the few who wield it as part of an agenda — Rush Limbaugh, Antonin Scalia and others.



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That's pretty sad. I think some people just sit around with their ears and eyes set to try to find SOMETHING to be offended by. Y'all wanna step out and shout and tell the world you are GAY!!!! But, you don't wanna be called a sodomite or a homo. I mean, if you are so very proud, then why on earth do you care? You are loud and proud. It just kills me the way y'all think you have to TELL everyone, "HEY I AM GAY!". No straight person I know has made that exclamation. Hey, I'M STRAIGHT!!! Why do y'all think we CARE for you to explain yourself? Why on Earth do you think we need to know???

Why? Because you think you are special, and deserve special care. You think you can dictate what other's say. And many of you think you can dictate what other's feel and believe to be right and wrong.

You want TOLERANCE, but I'll be damned if y'all can do any tolerating....AT ALL.
Yep. I have finally gotten to my point. Y'all certainly can not do ANY tolerating. It all has to revolve around you, and the fact that y'all are more important than anybody else. Y'all are the ones that by God ***MUST*** be tolerated.....no matter what.

Sorry, but I am going to use the word HOMOSEXUAL. Sorry dear, but it is what y'all are. You won't hear me using those other words, out of respect due to the fact that I honestly don't wanna hurt anyone's feelings. Whatever you wanna do, go do it. That's between you and God. But don't expect me to change my beliefs to suit you. Homosexuality is against MY GOD'S TEACHINGS. I will love you, I will respect you. I won't be mean to you. But I do NOT have to go against MY GOD'S TEACHINGS and believe or say that what you are doing is RIGHT in the eyes of God.

And no. I will not have a debate about all this. Been there done that, bought a Tee shirt.

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Congrats, you are the 38,153rd person to assume I'm gay just because I support gay rights. When in fact I'm a straight man, married (to a woman, that is) with four kids, and I have never engaged in any kind of gay sex in my life (even though I have always had gay friends, some of whom have offered).

I'm definitely not into all that God stuff though, but it doesn't exactly shock me that you are.

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OK. Then you are straight.

I have homosexual friends as well. Yes, I do. We get along just fine. They are extraordinary that they practice tolerance for my beliefs, while I practice tolerance for their beliefs. I can't say that I know many homosexuals act the same way. For most, that I have met, it's either THEIR WAY or the highway.


It doesn't matter to me if me being a Jesus Freak shocks you or not. As long as you do not try to trample on my religious rights, we are just fine.

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Yet you stubbornly insist on using a ten letter, five syllable word you now know many or most of the people described by it find offensive, instead of the three letter, one syllable word "gay" that they prefer. Interesting.

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Stubbornly? LOL. Homosexual. That's the exact word for folks that are sexually attracted to the same sex. Like I said, the homosexual powers that be want to DICTATE. Dictate. Dictate.

They have thrown such a fit that folks by God CAN NOT use the word "FAG, AND *beep* which is a word that you would never even hear coming out of my mouth. And yes, those words *can* be used as a put down. Now, since y'all got what YOU want, and those words are politically INcorrect, they can't leave well enough alone. Almost the entire lot of them can't leave it at that. They have to sit around dreaming up something ELSE TO BE OFFENDED BY. IT'S WHAT THEY DO. It's how they pass their time. That is quite sad. Actually, it's not equality they want. It's totalitarianism. They want to DICTATE everything. Actions. Words. Everything is about them. SORRRRRRRY, CHARLIE. We are *not* going to roll over and play dead.

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Totalitarianism?!? Okay, you're just...well, either punking/trolling me, or you've got a screw loose. Have fun with that! Kthxbye

P.S. It did just occur to me to wonder how in the world you ended up watching this costume drama, as opposed to sticking to action movies and the like.

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Yes. TOTAL CONTROL over what other's do....think. Say. Even believe. The words they use. Isn't that what you are trying to do? DICTATE what words I can use? You are telling me that I can't use the word HOMOSEXUAL. Isn't that what the GLAAD wants to do? Shut us the hell up and make us accept everything about homosexuals? Use the exact lingo that they WANT US TO USE???

Make us truly believe in our own heads that isn't SICK for a man to use another man's anus as an "INNIE" when it is obviously and "outtie"? YOU by God can not dictate what goes on in someone elses mind. You can not dictate what I think is right, and what I think is wrong.

If you can't understand that, then it's you that has the screw loose.

See? Even you are trying to dictate which genre of movies I can watch.

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SUNNYGIRLnTX,

Read what I guess is your last post. You have topped yourself in your obsessing about the sex lives of other people. What the hell that has to do with anything outside of your tiny brain is a mystery to me. Either you are fully brainwashed by some nutcase group or church who use titillating bits and pieces of taboo subjects to get you excited (like the anti-gay preachers who go to Africa to get people there worked up into murderous behavior "in the name of God," of course, or you are a troll. Do you search out "homosexual?" You refuse to enter into the discussion of the movie. You just become increasingly vulgar and obsessive. Go rent some porn and get it out of your system.

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SUNNYGIRLnTX,

Lady, YOU are running around telling everyone you are straight by writing these dumb posts! Just get that straight too. NO ONE is here bragging about their sexual orientation BUT you.

So, I guess, using YOUR reasoning, YOU must tell everyone the details of your sexual relationship? If you are not ashamed, and you tell the world your sexual orientation, then you must tell the world what you do inside your bedroom? Hmm. New approach to sexual attitudes from the wingnut right. Do you post a sign on your lawn? A bumper sticker? "I proudly give my husband blow jobs"--Put it next to your kid is an honor student announcement. Because surely you'd tell the world what you do, right? Since you are telling us about your sexual orientation and your religious beliefs about it...

Why do you think gays should have to tell you about their sex lives? They have announced their orientation in political forums because it was relevant to laws under consideration or being requested of representatives they elected. And they have announced to courts that they exist in significant numbers to explain the wide-ranging impact of upholding laws prohibiting sexual behavior that heterosexual people as well as homosexual people engage in. Only gay people were being arrested. So it was relevant to know the numbers of people who could be locked up...and it was relevant to show the numbers of people who were not being represented by their elected officials, and not hired in the numbers they exist...They had been CLOSETED and were COMING OUT. But if you worked with them, they wre not announcing it to the work force. My boss did not call a meeting to announce his sexual orientation.

Your fantasies are inaccurate if you think gay people bring up the subject of their sexual orientation where it is not relevant in some way. Or the subject of the forum in the 1st place--so we just stay out and never cross paths with such discussions. Honestly, gay men are not chasing down women to discuss their sex lives with us. Is it that you want them to? It sounds like you do. YOU are the one bringing up sodomy on an IMDB thread about a movie without anything beyond a few kisses in it.

YOU are the one with sodomy on the mind, SUNNYGIRLnTX! No gay people came here to tell us what they do in their bedrooms--YOU came here to talk about what THEY do in their bedrooms...which makes me very suspicious. You are coming on a site about movies to deny you engage in certain sex acts. Hmmmmm. Do you know what Freud would say about that? Either you do it, or want it or something. Because it never crossed the minds of anyone else.

Right wingers never realize how painfully obvious their psychology is!

BTW I am NOT gay, homosexual or anything much at all any more. Only saying that because you are accusing others of resaponding to you because they are gay. Not true. I could not give a c**p what you and your god (in other words, you and the pretend man in the sky you made up to use as an excuse for your uglier behavior) think or do. I just dislike rudeness and name-calling. Prejudice. And you, lady, are full of it. If YOU call this "LOVE" you need your head examined. It's nothing more than an excuse to vent your vile hatred.

There is no one here talking about sex, gay sex, gay rights or anything of the sort except YOU. Projection. Get your mind out of other people's butts and you'll be happier and won't need to attack fictional gay people's fictional sex lives.

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SUNNYGIRLnTX,

"Homo" is a slur. Stop associating with people who throw around such slurs and you'd learn that. No one who is polite uses that "shortening." Like other slurs, the past use of the word has made it poison. It's going to ring of past mean, ugly intentions. You cannot escape that history.

Knowing this and being sensitive to it does not evidence a person who is miserable. How bizarre. In fact, using slurs and defending their use by others is a far more accurate sign of a miserable person. After all, nice people are rarely miserable or unhappy--but the mean and cruel ones always are.

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Look at the way he kisses Ms. Honeychurch. He probably wouldn't have done much better with a man.

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"Look at the way he kisses Ms. Honeychurch. He probably wouldn't have done much better with a man."

I think this is a perfect observation and is admirable as I think it could only have come from a mind who has managed to actually toss the shackles of contemporary thinking and see the forest from trees.

He shows no real passion towards Lucy but that doesn't make him gay. It makes him a socially detached, overly educated, but underly cultured ignoramus.

I think of that exact scene where he kisses Lucy and I can imagine how a gay man, who knows he's gay and knows he must hide it, might kiss her. Then I think of a romantically retarded intellectual faced with that same situation and how he might handle it and I think we are left with no doubt. The two scenarios WOULD play out different, and the one we were given was certainly the one of a romantically challenged effete Victorian and not the closet homosexual.

I think the OP needs to grow up a little and I think the reply I quoted above is just a perfect observation.

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How about the "Lying to George" scene in which Lucy confronts George in the study, telling him to leave and threatens him with calling on Mr. Vyse to which he responds "I would have held back if your Cecil had been a different person, but he's the sort who cannot know anyone intimately, least of all a woman. He doesn't know what a woman is."

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I just finished reading the book, and I did not get the impression that Cecil was gay. He was just snobbish and socially awkward.

However, I did question Mr. Beebes a bit. There was a part that said something like "he liked to observe women, and he found Lucy pretty, but he did not find her attractive", or something to like that, and it kind of made me wonder if he was gay. Perhaps his disinterest in women was simply because he believed so firmly in celibacy, which was brought up in the book. However I'm pretty sure that E.M Forster (the author of A Room with a View) was homosexual. He never married, and he was certainly one of the first authors to write a homosexual love story (Maurice). In fact, I think a number of his later novels/stories had homosexual characters, although I could be wrong.

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