MovieChat Forums > Platoon (1987) Discussion > The bamboo thing the NVA put in the tree...

The bamboo thing the NVA put in the tree before the final battle?

posted a year ago by PittPanthers47 (237)
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Okay, here is a question that i have often wondered about regarding Platoon----what exactly was the bamboo thingy that the NVA soldiers placed in a tree just as the final battle got under way? Someone guessed way back that it was a unit marker to let the various NVA officers and troops know which units were operating where during the attack.

I just watched a good video on VC booby traps that BO put up on the one thread and perhaps the NVA had traps set and this was a warning to the other soldiers to be alert for them. Or was the thing itself a trap designed to catch a taller American soldier who came charging after them?

Any thoughts here?

[–] BOandBarbecue (2264) a year ago

yes great question pitt another thing that stand out in this film in among a sea of things! i always remember this part well. you know you are watching great film when you remember even small thing like this clear in mind hahahaha!

Someone guessed way back that it was a unit marker to let the various NVA officers and troops know which units were operating where during the attack.

this sound like good explanation pitt. i always just guess it was route marker for other troop to follow. must be easy for them to follow this thing if they in dense jungle with little light & if charlie cannot communicate with each other. maybe they in radio silence and cannot shout? i check online script and this is description of scene:

EXT. NVA JUNGLE - NIGHT/DUSK

In the Jungle itself, the ENEMY is moving. Flurries of movement
and sound, blurred visuals. Hands taping a piece of cloth to a
tree, moving on - revealing a luminous arrow pointing left ...
Figures moving past it.

Hands unraveling a thin wire waist-high, backwards.

Hands sliding along another wire. We now see a moving helmet
with a luminous plaque on the back of it, leading a file up the
wire. To a Jump-off point about 50 yards outside the U.S.
perimeter. Figures crouch. Whispers. Movement. A pen
flashlight on a drawing of the foxhole positions. The NVA moving
out in several directions at once.

i guess it could be for directions/which unit is here.

if they need marker it shows that they may have huge number of troops and they need to be guided right to particular place to attack americans - kinda like traffic sign/light hahah.

[–] PittPanthers47 (237) a year ago

I did some further reading on it BO and I think you hit the nail right on the head to say that it was a route marker for follow up NVA troops to be guided properly. Like you say----there must have been a huge number of NVA troops coming up. I think that is a very apt description of the 141st NVA Regiment. They looked to be freshly outfitted troops and likely were a unit at complete strength considereing the condition of their clothing and the sheer number of them. The action we see was either in Cambodia or right next to Cambodia. That would easily explain things as that was rally zone and starting off point for enemy forces.

I also agree that it is scenes like this that do so much to make Platoon stand out in so many ways. Like the film Jaws, Platoon is a movie that is made up of many, many great and unforgetable scenes. Stone absolutely paid attention to detail!

Also that was a great video on the VC tunnels on the other thread. I can say that I would NEVER EVER even consider going into those things. Even if you were a VC/NVA that had to be horrible. I think the only thing that would get me in one is if I knew that a napalm attack was coming at me. Other than that, forget it.

[–] BOandBarbecue (2264) a year ago

yes they were full strength pitt and look well motivate as well which is bad combo for american. and coming straight off ho chi minh trail in cambodia - formidable and almost unstopable. thank god for snake and nape hahahah

stone always say the nva to him were like ghosts in the way they move and disappear. very elusive. he really film them in interesting way in this film. they seem formidable and almost not of this earth especially when taylor first see them in ambush.

agreed pit those tunnels very scary. as you know pitt the us military in nam actually have 'tunnel rats' which was soldier who were short like less than 5 ft 5in and they would sent these small men into vc tunnel to weed out enemy with nothing more than colt 45 and mx-991 flashlight! i would not like this postion hahahah. very scary especially if you claustrophobics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jNx4Gcm54c

[–] ShogunofYonkers (71667) a year ago

There is a very excellent book called The Tunnels Of Cu Chi that describes the methods used to deal with the VC underground.

Those Tunnel Rats were a breed apart, extraordinarily brave guys!

[–] BOandBarbecue (2264) a year ago

yes agreed so brave are these men to go into these dark tunnel and all the horrible thing that lurk in them like booby traps, poison spiders, rats and keelai. what a horrendous place!

thank you for recommencing this book but i hate to read!

[–] PittPanthers47 (237) a year ago

Shogun---My co-op teacher when I was a student teacher always raved about that book about the tunnels of Chu Chi. I have never gotten around to getting to it as of yet and that was nearly 30 years ago.

BO---once again you make a couple of great observations here with the motivation of NVA/VC troops and the ghost-like quality of them.

The enemy was highly motivated and they were natural warriors and had been fighting for many years. They were good soldiers and not to be taken lightly whatsoever. I have read many accounts of American veterans who even though they fought against them they did have a high degree of respect for how they fought. We can look at the Viet Minh at Dien Bien Phu and the manner in which the NVA attacked with fury at Ia Drang and see how formidable they really were. Human wave attacks that did not hesitate regardless of what you threw at them. Certainly many firebases and US/ARVN installations saw the same during the war. They just came after you with the fierceness of a tiger.

The NVA/VC were said to be everywhere and nowhere at once. I have read accounts of American vets who did a whole tour incountry and fired their weapon many times and they NEVER once actually saw an enemy soldier. Yes, they were very elusive. They would blend into the jungles or slip into the tunnels. They moved fast and were nearly impossible at times to get a fix on. Call in an airstrike or artillery bombardment but chances were good they were already long gone.

Stone gives us a nice scene regarding how the enemy moved during the night ambush. Taylor is watching the old ruins thing in the jungle and you can hardly tell that there are a number of enemy troops right there. They moved in unison with the jungle and blended amazingly well. They were like ghosts coming out of the bush. Also a cool scene when we see the one NVA running away from the fight after it was over and then vanishing back into the jungle from which he came. They were ghosts.

[–] BOandBarbecue (2264) a year ago

very well said pitt! i enjoy reading this post very much. everything you say is what i have been thinking when i watch great movie like platoon.

it is skill for film maker you show enemy soldier like this. many props to oliver stone for showing this.

The NVA/VC were said to be everywhere and nowhere at once. I have read accounts of American vets who did a whole tour incountry and fired their weapon many times and they NEVER once actually saw an enemy soldier.

yes i have read same thing. nva/charlie was rarely seen. they would vanish into jungle or into underground tunnel or blend with local village people. that would make them difficult opponent who rarely appeared to face them in battle. no wonder this war so difficult for american!

Stone gives us a nice scene regarding how the enemy moved during the night ambush. Taylor is watching the old ruins thing in the jungle and you can hardly tell that there are a number of enemy troops right there. They moved in unison with the jungle and blended amazingly well

yes. i like the way they just suddenly appears from thin air. like taylor is looking up one second and there is nothing there (but he can sense something is out there). then he look up again a second later and they have just magically appeared like spirits hahahaah. great stuff! to give the enemy this kind of quality just make them seem more impressive and not like regular soldier.

even at the end when they move through jungle putting up the bamboo sign - they feel different. makes you fear them as audience

[–] PittPanthers47 (237) a year ago

Maybe one change I would have made to the night ambush scene if I were Stone would be to NOT show the NVA point man moving up on Taylor as a regular human. I may have opted for some more dramatic license here. I may have shown the NVA with more jungle leaf camo attached to him and with his face painted up a bit for added camo. Okay I'm not even sure if the NVA/VC did that sort of thing to be honest.

But I guess what i am saying is that I would have him as the killer with the Michael Myers (Halloween reference) mask rather than just some everyday guy who appeared normal. But It is hard to second guess Stone on anything in this masterpiece. It was just so perfect all the way through. Most of the NVA depicted in the final battle are basically mere teenaged children. You can tell they are rather young. The NVA walking point appears to be older and likely a much more experienced soldier. I think he was the one who ran out of the kill zone when the battled ebbed. He was likely an outstanding soldier. He had been afforded the gift of time and years to learn something where as most of the others we see were not.

The NVA unit we see who entered into the night ambush zone may have been a 'special forces' type of unit as NVA units go. Scouts or recon type of troops who were better troops overall. They had a very dangerous job. They got hit and then did the smart thing and seemed to leave almost immediately. Perhaps their only objective had been met by meeting US contact. They reported their encounter and another piece of the puzzle may have been offered to the NVA commanders. Makes sense.

[–] BOandBarbecue (2264) a year ago

yes i agree pitt that one shot of the nva gets too close to camera. that part stick out to me too hahha. nva does not look so mysterious here does it?! he just look like average joe haha. he shouldve been concealed more yes.

The NVA unit we see who entered into the night ambush zone may have been a 'special forces' type of unit as NVA units go. Scouts or recon type of troops who were better troops overall.

wow pitt that is great point. i never think of that before. your right, there only seem to be handful of them. likely recon/scout looking for american. it is like when taylor is being choppered into final battle, his narration says "charlie company had been probed that night". so these units must do these special thing at night. they always seem to know when to attack. must have good recon.

I think he was the one who ran out of the kill zone when the battled ebbed.

that was one part i do not get. there should be no way anyone get out of that killzone haha. 20 plus troops with claymores, M60 nest, all angles. that man run away?

[–] PittPanthers47 (237) a year ago

I hear ya here , BO, there is no way whatsoever that the NVA who runs out of there should have been able to survive that encounter. Like you said, good number of American troops and some good ones with Barnes and Elias. M-60 set up and claymores. I think you can perhaps explain how the NVA trooper survived was that he immediately hit the ground when the explosions went off. He was smart enough to stay there. The Americans were all sleeping except for Taylor when the NVA entered the kill zone. The GIs were startled awake and were liking shooting haphazard. Plus, they had the friendly fire accident of the grenade going off and wounding the M-60 gunner (Tex??). Gardner was killed at some point. Was he shot by the NVA or friendly fire or a victim of the errant grenade toss?

It seemed like after the grenade thing the American fire ebbed a bit with the man screaming. The NVA wisely used this opportunity to race out of there. Notice that he fired his weapon first when he got up to make the GIs duck for a second. This was enough time for him to bolt the scene. Good and smart soldier. Yup, likely recon unit. Notice they are wearing green uniforms and not the standard tan khaki that the NVA usually wore.

And yes, there were only like three NVA scouts that I counted. The one thing that I found odd was how right after the NVA survivor runs off we hear Barnes dress down the squad while they all just stand around. What about worrying about a counter-attack? What about worrying about a rolling mortar attack called in by the survivors? Kind of strange. But yes, had to be NVA recon. We see the time on Taylor's watch at around 2:30 AM or so. They no doubt operated at night as did much of the NVA/VC war effort.

[–] BOandBarbecue (2264) a year ago

Gardner was killed at some point. Was he shot by the NVA or friendly fire or a victim of the errant grenade toss?

Yes pitt, gardner was sadly hit by nva fire. you can see it here in this video. gardner is in background here (standing behind more experienced soldier tony who is lying flat and shooting) & gardner is wearing boonie hat. he make rookie mistake of standing up for one second during ambush and he get hit: https://youtu.be/XA_BQ2ieoP0?t=153

as elias say to barnes as they are walking out of ambush zone "he might be alive if he have a few more days to learn something". this is what elias warns wolfe and barnes at camp when they are planning ambush. "they don't know shit and chances are will run into something". and he is right.

so elias is good leader and he know taylor and gardner are not ready for night ambush. if elias is in charge then he keep FNG's back and he teach them more thing and save their life. but wolfe and barnes are not good leaders and send FNG's on first night to dangerous night ambush.

thing that I found odd was how right after the NVA survivor runs off we hear Barnes dress down the squad while they all just stand around. What about worrying about a counter-attack?

haha yes this is true. i guess it just look cool for movie if they stand there. i doubt they do this irl haha

yes you make good point about nva who survive - he fire and run away. maybe some smoke from explosion hide his escape as well?

[–] PittPanthers47 (237) a year ago

Good points, BO. The night ambush is a highly underrated scene to be honest. A couple of corrections I need to make is it looks like Taylor's watch says 3:30 AM and I did count at least four NVA before they entered the kill zone. I wonder how many of them there were? Yeah, Gardner must have gotten hit by NVA fire. Bad idea to stand up in a firefight. Note how quickly the NVA point man drops down to the ground.

I wonder what happened just a mere second before the NVA point man would surely have spotted Taylor---did one of the NVA scouts trip a wire to set off the explosion? Or did someone wake up at the last second and do something? Maybe Barnes or most likely the cagey Elias. Hard to know. I kind of assume that one of the NVA tripped a wire and set something off.

Could you tell if it was the NVA point man who was the one who made good on his escape? i always figured it was him. He had an advantage of being up so close to the Americans that he may not have been hit by all the fire. He did a good job to haul azz out of there. He was very lucky to make it.

[–] BOandBarbecue (2264) a year ago

did one of the NVA scouts trip a wire to set off the explosion? Or did someone wake up at the last second and do something?

that has always bug me as well, pitt. at first i think someone just wake up and see charlie and start shooting. but sound is too loud for gunfire, more like explosion.

then i think claymore? but they are remote detonate by device that you click three times. safety was still on at start of firefight - tex and chris panic trying to get it work. was some claymores attached to trip wire? and the nva set off trip wire or mine?

or is there another soldier who have a second device to trigger claymores, and he wakes up and see's them?

many mysteries in this ambush hahaha

Could you tell if it was the NVA point man who was the one who made good on his escape?

i think nva point man is the one that barnes execute: https://youtu.be/XA_BQ2ieoP0?t=238

^^ i think it is same guy, similar face. i think the point man is the first man to go down in ambush, or first to get shrapnel. too hard to tell for sure though!

[–] PittPanthers47 (237) a year ago

BO---Yeah, I am not sure exactly what happened a millisecond before the NVA scout would have undoubtedly spotted Taylor in the bush. As you say the claymore were NOT set off at that time as evidenced by the effort of Taylor and Tex to remove the safety. Someone in the comments section of the video postulated that perhaps that they tripped a flare that was set up by the American ambush unit.

Would this make sense? Would they want to chance an animal setting that off and exposing their position to any nearby enemy? You would think not. Or on the other hand you may want the kill zone to be illuminated once you knew the enemy was there so you could see your targets. Hard to know.

I actually don't think that was the point man who got shot by Barnes. His features look softer than the point man and the foilage on his helmet looks different. Pause at 2:15 to see what the helmet of the point man looks like. But in all that melee Lord knows what would happen.

In watching the scene several times it looks like there were more NVA there than we thought perhaps. They were actively firing back at the Americans. I have to admit that I see different things or think different things each time I watch it. It all happens so quick. I don't know maybe the NVA who gets away was one of the guys more in the back of their line. Not sure.

We do get to see how devastating the claymores are when they finally set them off and we see the one NVA trooper go flying through the air. It was a bad business all the way around.

[–] BOandBarbecue (2264) a year ago

section of the video postulated that perhaps that they tripped a flare that was set up by the American ambush unit

Would they want to chance an animal setting that off and exposing their position to any nearby enemy? You would think not. Or on the other hand you may want the kill zone to be illuminated

yes more interesting point here pitt. do flare make that kind of noise when triggered? or is that stone using dramatic licenses with the true noise that trip flare make hahaha

check the sound this trip wire make during end battle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WanUg9SCuXM

^^ that is what it sound like so they definitely have something else during night ambush. might be just standard trip wire with grenade.

I have to admit that I see different things or think different things each time I watch it. It all happens so quick. I don't know maybe the NVA who gets away was one of the guys more in the back of their line. Not sure.

yes i think this is tribute to oliver stones film making. he use very fast cuts during battle and use interesting angles. it show you how much chaos there is in battle. war movies made before platoon show mostly boring battles. this style was new for 1986 and it help film stand out.

i think man who get away was further towards back. that would be my guess pitt. he is standing futher back when he fires and runs. the guys at front had no chance.

We do get to see how devastating the claymores are when they finally set them off and we see the one NVA trooper go flying through the air. It was a bad business all the way around..

hahah yes! that charlie was probably right next to detonation. if chris was alert and hit device at right time the claymores would've killed most instantly

[–] PittPanthers47 (237) a year ago

BO---that is a great point about the flare tripwire from the final battle. Yeah, a flare on its own would not do all that we see and hear in the night ambush. The grenade thing is a decent guess. I have no idea. It seemed like somebody tripped something or maybe Barnes or Elias woke up just in time and tossed a grenade but that still doesn't explain the illumination we see. That would be a good thing to ask Stone.

But a cool scene in a movie that was made up of a lot of great scenes. The NVA were frightening in this scene since they seemed to come out of nowhere and just descended upon the squad like so much as ghosts in the night. And then just as quick they were gone again. I think that i would be unnerved by them how they just silently appeared like that and then disappeared just as quickly.

[–] BOandBarbecue (2264) a year ago

i guess it will always be mystery what sets off first explosion pitt haha. so many theorys.

But a cool scene in a movie that was made up of a lot of great scenes. The NVA were frightening in this scene since they seemed to come out of nowhere and just descended upon the squad like so much as ghosts in the night. And then just as quick they were gone again. I think that i would be unnerved by them how they just silently appeared like that and then disappeared just as quickly.

yes well said pitt. i remember oliver stone saying same thing you say. he saw them that way during his tour of dutys in nam - like ghosts who disappear into nothing. and when he make platoon, he make sure he capture nva in this way.

i dont think any other war film give enemy soldier this kind of unearthly qualitys before platoon. very impressive. that is why we are talking about this *one* scene in such detail haha because that is how good this film is & how well made by stone it is.

so many great scene in this film that you can analyse in details for long time! not too many other war film have this. stone deserved that best directors oscar. he creates masterpiece that stand tests of time.

[–] PittPanthers47 (237) a year ago

Amen to all of that, BO! That is very well stated. Yeah, just so many scenes in this film were like that. We can talk a long time about their detail and their intent. It is really crazy. Stone was indeed a genius to craft something like this. I think for me Platoon and Apocalypse Now were the two greatest Nam movies. There was a lot right happening in them. Course, the latter film had some weirdness in parts about it. But its scenes depicting the war were quite good.

Getting back to the night ambush scene---any idea why the NVA scouts were wearing green uniforms? Were they a special unit or were they simply trying to blend in better for their job? Any possibiltity that they could have been a part of Cambodia's forces? I never thought of that one before.

[–] BOandBarbecue (2264) a year ago

thanks pitt.

apocalypse now is great first hour. i usually turn film off after attack on nva village. have only watched full film all the way through 2 or 3 times but have watched first hour many times hahah. overall great war film thanks to john milius who is student of war and he create icons of military cinema like colonel kilgore.

i never notice that nva have green uniforms in ambush scene. very interesting pitt. i grow up watching this film on shit vhs copy rented from local shit video store and quality was so bad i could not make out most scene in night time. i have watched scene again and i cannot tell what colour uniform they wear haha

i find this picture of standard nva uniform:

https://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_1272983

being commies i doubt they could afford many different uniform for there soldiers. it says it is tan and i think this might be what they wear in ambush scene but im not sure pitt!

i think they are special unit. probably not cambodia army as i hear cambodia did not like north veitnam because north vietnam invade cambodia in 70s to defeat khmer rouge.

[–] PittPanthers47 (237) a year ago

BO---I think I'll just stand on my conclusion that I am seeing different things each time I watch the night ambush scene and am thinking different things. There is a lot to process here and you have to do it rather quickly (even in slow motion). I guess my final report is that I am not sure about much of anything that I brought up about the scene.

But I think we do conclude that it was a very well done scene. It did offer a lot to look at and think about which is always good.

Yeah, as much as a dim view that we take of the commie NVA we can be grateful to them for interceding in Cambodia to stop Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge. Horrible thing that happened there. It must have been bad for it to look that awful if you juxtapose it with the Vietnam War. That is really telling there.

[–] BOandBarbecue (2264) a year ago

i think you were correct about that being special nva unit. i had never think about this before but they were not regular platoon but like a recon unit/special forces.

yeah so many great scene in this film worth discussing. it has been good fun discussing this film with you pitt! i think i appreciates this film ever more now haha

It must have been bad for it to look that awful if you juxtapose it with the Vietnam War. That is really telling there.

very good point pitt. even the nam commies draw the line at evil and become the good guys.

[–] PittPanthers47 (237) a year ago

BO---I certainly enjoy talking about this film with you as well my brother. Great insights you provide. Yeah, I do believe that the NVA force we see in the night ambush unit was some sort of special unit apart from the rank and file NVA. Likely special forces (at least their version of it) or most likely some sort of scout or recon type of troops.

They seemed to move very well and be very well coordinated. And yet we see the one trooper carrying his rifle in a very lackadaisical manner. But hours of uneventful patrol could very well do that to you. Hard to know it all about them. But Barnes knew they would be on the move that night when he said "we got Boo Koo movement" before they headed out on ambush for the night.

I think I will start a new thread here in a day or so. I think we exhausted the topic. LOL. Now watch me and my basset hound walk into a night ambush on our evening walk tonight. It would be fitting.

[–] BOandBarbecue (2264) a year ago

yes good point pitt about nva man carrying rifle on shoulder like he on r & r or something haha.

i think that nva man strolling through jungle was in for rude surprise! obviously been walking all night and point man waves when they enter kill zone as if to say "coast is clear".

first time i see this i think nva man was waving at taylor. then when they start strolling into ambush zone with rifle on back i think these guys are retards haha.

good luck on night ambush patrol with your hound pit. look out for charlie in the trees. sappers everywhere hahahahah

[–] PittPanthers47 (237) a year ago

Made in back in one piece from night patrol. The basset stayed on the couch as he was too lazy to make it. But yes, the NVA point man hand signal was interesting. At first glance he seems to be waving his comrades to stop and then a milisecond later he is motioning for them to come up. Maybe his signal meant for the larger column to stop but for the forward element to come up with him to look around.

They seemed to be cautious around the old ruins as they seemed to know that it could be a good ambush spot. I wonder if this trail that they were on was a part of the Ho Chi Minh Trail network or at least one of its tributaries? Hard to say. i would guess that it was just a path through the jungle somewhere strategic that the NVA wanted to get to. And the American ambush unit guessed correctly that they would be coming through there that night.

Just imagine how very frightening that had to be for both sides. The NVA moving through there at night---they could run into anything. Snakes, tiger, booby traps, explosives, ambush, friendly fire, airstrike, artillery barrage. And the Americans laying there in the rain, the bugs, soaked to the bone no doubt while there could be anything out there. Crazy stuff.

[–] BOandBarbecue (2264) a year ago

maybe your dog knew charlie could be waiting on you? hahah

yes i always guess he signal that coast is clear but yes there could be more behind them but they did not back them up when firefight start

i would guess that it was just a path through the jungle somewhere strategic that the NVA wanted to get to. And the American ambush unit guessed correctly that they would be coming through there that night

i would think so pit. those nva could be recently arrived right off ho chi minh trail. the american have intel on beaucoup movement in that region as barnes say, and they set up ambush in zone that is most likely to have nva.

i think whole of platoon take place right on cambodian border - this is where oliver stone was stationed. i assume u.s. command send its divisions to this area to provide shield for nva coming over border. this is where they come down. very interesting.

The NVA moving through there at night---they could run into anything. Snakes, tiger, booby traps, explosives, ambush, friendly fire, airstrike, artillery barrage

yes although i think the nva would be more comfortable with jungle than the americas. nva are used to this - trained in it. it is much more tough environment for american, almost alien. oliver stone does well to show this in film - down in mud. must be everything crawling on you at night in jungle. crazy!