MovieChat Forums > Der Name der Rose (1986) Discussion > Was the Abbey a set or real?

Was the Abbey a set or real?


I found the large number of staircases that formed a type of labyrinth simply amazing.
Was this a movie set or an actual building? If real, what is it and where is it located? Thanks.

reply

I haven't listened to the commentary track for a while, but as I recall, Annaud says it was a set.

----

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

reply

The exterior of the monastery seen in the film was constructed on a hilltop outside Rome, and ended up being the biggest exterior set built in Europe since “Cleopatra”.

"Smithers, release the robotic Richard Simmons" C. Montgomery Burns

reply

The exterior shots were done in Castel Del Monte, Italy.
It is on the UNESCO World Heritage List
http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/398

The interior shots were done in Kloster Eberbach, in Germany near Frankfurt.
I'm not sure about the staircase though, that might have been a set. I've been to that cloister and they didn't have such an immense tower there.

reply

[deleted]

Uh! I think he did! Go to the URL (web site) that he cited: You'll see a picture of a structure that would be familiar to anyone who have seen this film. That website also says that the "Castel" (built by Emperor Frederick II) is "unique". However, unless the picture shows the "Castel" sitting behind a ridge (instead of on a hilltop), I think that most of the exterior shots were of a set. If the picture on the UNESCO site is of a building on a hilltop, then the "Castel" is only 2 or 3 stories tall, whereas (in the movie) the library stacks appeared to be 5 or 6 stories. Regardless, if you watch the movie again, at the beginning [where the Narrator (Adso as an old man) says,"...to relive the past and revive the feelings of uneasiness that oppressed my heart as we entered the battlements...] the shot of the abbey is from the same angle the picture of the "Castel" was shot.

reply

Uh! I think he did!

And I think he didn't. The Aedificium in the novel was almost certainly inspired at least partly by Castel del Monte, so it's no surprise that the Aedificium in the film resembles it. There's nothing on that site stating that any part of the movie was actually filmed there (and of course the Aedificium is only one part of the monastery anyway).

And the claim at issue does require such an explicit statement, because the director says in his DVD commentary that the monastery was a constructed set.

You seem to agree:

I think that most of the exterior shots were of a set.

. . . so I'm not sure why you think he's provided a source for the statement The exterior shots were done in Castel Del Monte, Italy.

----

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

reply

OOPS! My bad--I misunderstand the original question. The statement, "The exterior shots were done in Castel Del Monte, Italy." was, in fact, not sourced. The previous poster did source the picture of the "Castel", upon which he based his assertion quoted above. I believe that the first scene was shot there; I base this belief on the similarity of the picture on the UNESCO site and the building that is in the scene.

reply

I believe that the first scene was shot there; I base this belief on the similarity of the picture on the UNESCO site and the building that is in the scene.

Hmm. That's not impossible, I suppose, but I don't think the similarity of the buildings is sufficient reason to believe it. As I mentioned, the Aedificium in the novel was based on that same building (and there's a "map" of it in the novel), so we'd expect them to be similar no matter where the scene was shot.

And again, the director has said on the DVD commentary that the set was constructed, and I don't recall any mention of Castel del Monte as an exception. I'd expect him to mention it if the scene had been shot there. But that's not conclusive, of course.

----

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

reply

Hey, you know what? I should have done a modicum of research before I shoot off my big mouth!! If you go here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castel_del_Monte_(Apulia)

you'll find a good picture of the "Castel". In that picture, you'll see that the "Castel" is, in fact, on a hilltop and that it's only 3 stories tall. Furthermore, you will see that the walls are much narrower (in relation to the towers that are at the corners of the building) than the walls of the Aedificium(?) (the "library stacks" as I referred to it earlier) in the movie. Also, Apulia is in the "Achilles' tendon" (if you want to stretch the "boot" analogy) of Italy and, therefore, rather far from Rome to do one exterior shot.

~~Bayowolf
WHY didn't you put the bunny in the box??

reply

That does seem to settle it. Oh, I suppose they could have used some clever/tricky shots from odd angles or even modified the images digitally, but I'm pretty sure the director would have mentioned it in his commentary if they'd done anything like that.

----

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

reply

I suppose they could have used some clever/tricky shots from odd angles or even modified the images digitally...
by - Spliff_The_Cimmerian on Sun Jan 4 2009 12:44:17
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why do people have no sense of when things happened? Name of the Rose predates digital effects.

As for the interior I seem to recall hearing that the library interiors which younever see in full, existed as only three of those nodes we see, and a few stairways. The benefit of a modular design ($$$), on film.

reply

You'd be correct in saying that digital effects were in their infancy in the mid '80s [c.f., Tron (1982)], but matte effects and other cinematographic tricks go way back [c.f., the 1950s' version of C.B. DeMille's The Ten Commandments (the one with Charlton Heston in it--I'm sure you have seen it)].

I'm sure that it's possible that they could have used matte effects to show the Aedificium (the "Library Stacks") in the background, but it's more likely that they used an existing building [my original theory (since disproved to my satisfaction)] or built a mock-up of a building in a back lot in Rome.

~~Bayowolf
If we die... it will be for GLORY, not gold.

reply

Why do people have no sense of when things happened?

I'm guessing here, but is it because you weren't alive at the time?

Name of the Rose predates digital effects.

No, it doesn't. Even CGI has been around since the early 1970s, and anybody who has seen Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan knows it was used for the Genesis Effect in 1982.

However, as I said, had this film used any digitally modified images, the director would have mentioned it in his commentary. As bayowolf says, digital effects were in their infancy at the time and their use here would have been worthy of note.

For a better "sense of when things happened":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_CGI_in_film_and_television

----

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

reply

The majority of the interior shots were done in Kloster Eberbach, as you said, but some of them also on the main exterior set near Rome, were some of the buildings also had usable interia.
The rest (and I guess this includes the labyrinth/staircases) were done in Cinecitta Studios in Rome.

reply

When I was in Pescara, I was informed by a local that a number of films were shot in a castle nearby, including The Name of the Rose. I don't know how this fits in with what people have said so far, because said castle is in Abruzzo, and the Castel del Monte is in Puglia, but that's what I was told!

reply

I don't know how this fits in with what people have said so far, because said castle is in Abruzzo, and the Castel del Monte is in Puglia, but that's what I was told!

It fits fine with what we've said so far. This movie wasn't filmed in Castel del Monte.

This is probably it: http://www.italyworldclub.com/landmarks/abruzzo/laquila/roccacalascio_ castello.htm. As I understand it, it was used for scenery shots, so it's not quite true to say that the movie was filmed there (most of the abbey scenes were filmed on a specially constructed set), but there you go.

----

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

reply

I am interested in the discussion that the look of the Aedificium which houses the library in the abbey was inspired by Castel del Monte. It certainly has a similar look but I can not find a lot of references confirming the inspiration. I definitely don't believe any exterior shots were filmed at Castel del Monte, or any other buildings in other locations were used in the film. All evidence suggests that the exterior shots of the buildings were filmed entirely on the constructed set.

The only references I have found for Castel del Monte being an inspiration to Eco are cited in the wikipedia page for Castel del Monte. One is a website, in-italia.com - a website for holiday homes in Italy, which states "The description of the library in the tower in Umberto Eco’s “Name of the Rose” clearly owes much to Castel del Monte". The other is a book that I have not heard of before and will be eager to seek out, by Adele Hart and Robert White, The Key to The Name of the Rose (1999).

Jean-Jacques Annaud does not mention in the DVD commentary that Castel del Monte was an inspiration for the film (instead he cites scouting several hundred locations around Europe and, in a 2004 special feature on the DVD "Photo Video Journey with Jean Jacques Annaud", that he was inspired by German Romantic paintings of monasteries in alpine settings).

I have a copy of Umberto Eco's Reflections on the Name of the Rose (1983, English translation 1984) which mentions the early gestation of the story having considered first that it be set in a modern convent, then changing to the Middle Ages, then having to use a 14th Century time period to include the papal debates over poverty and the discussions of the Fraticelli, also wanting his investigator to be English - a Franciscan and with qualities that would be evident post Roger Bacon, then wanting a November time period so that Michael of Cesena would still be in Italy for the debates, and therefore needing a monastary in the mountains where it would be cold enough for pig slaughtering to have started as early as November(thus allowing a monk to be found in a jar of pigs' blood to conform with the second trumpet of the Apocalypse), wanting a library with a labyrinth and with enough air circulation so that a fire would be the culmination of the story, etc etc. But sadly Eco never mentions Castel del Monte as an inspiration in this book.

Annaud in the film commentary does confirm that all exterior shots of the abbey were filmed at the specially constructed set outside of Rome. I have never heard the exact location but he does state it was a hill on private land in the countryside just outside of Rome. In the 2004 Photo video Journey he says it was about 10 kilometres from Rome. Also on my DVD is a German Documentary about the making of the film which states the location was "at the gates of Rome" and at a location just north of Rome near a northern arterial road from Rome. Annaud says in the commentary that it amuses him that many people claim to have visited the abbey where he shot these exteriors assuming it to have been a real historic location in some part of Italy or France. He says almost all exterior shots were on the set outside of Rome. Annaud does state he did scout hundreds of historic locations before deciding to build his set and this is probably where many of the rumours started. The establishing shots of the scenery around the fictious abbey were filmed in the Abruzzo around L'Aquila about 150kms from Rome but all the shots of buildings were on the set.

Annaud does state in the DVD commentary that the establishing shot of the abbey from a distance seen in the first scenes of the film (and a few times later on) was the "only visual effect in the movie". So it was not a shot of Castel del Monte, or even a castle in the Abruzzo, but a glass painting put in front of the camera with a little house on a hill in the distance to give the impression we were seeing the tower of the Aedificium from a long way off. I believe this visual effect shot was done in Abruzzo rather than on the set outside Rome.

Many of the interior shots for the abbey, such as the scriptorium and the interior of the church, were at Kloster Eberbach in Germany. Annaud states on the DVD commentary that William and Adso's room while staying in the abbey was a small set built on the main set outside Rome, as indeed was part of the Infirmary for a few scenes. The German Making of Documentary states the staircases of the labyrinth was a set at the Cinecitta studios in Rome. The rooms of the library were also a set at Cinecitta as were the settings for some other scenes, such as where William shows the invisible writing on the parchment to the abbot.

reply

another bump

~~Bayowolf
There's a difference between being frank... and being dick.

reply

http://www.architecturalpapers.ch/index.php?ID=75


a nice commentary on the set

reply