MovieChat Forums > Lady Jane (1986) Discussion > What were the succession rules?

What were the succession rules?


I don't understand why Edward VI's will which provided Lady Jane Grey and her male heirs is not legally sufficient to overturn Henry VIII's line of succession (Mary, then Elizabeth).

Mary did not raise an army merely from wounded pride or political hunger but seemed to invoke some question of legitimacy, at least among the common people who followed her. So, never mind the cultural and religious implications, was there truly a legal question about Edward's right to name his follower?

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[deleted]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_British_line_of_succession #Edward_VI
Edward VI left a Devise for the Succession which he had no authority to do, unlike his father (Henry VIII), to whom Parliament had granted such authority.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Succession_Act
The Treason Act 1547 made it high treason to interrupt the line of succession to the throne established by the Act of Succession. Edward VI meant to bypass this Act in his "Devise for the Succession", issued as letters patent on 21 June 1553, by naming Lady Jane Grey as his successor in place of Mary. Prevailing over Lady Jane Grey, Mary ascended the throne per the terms of the Third Succession Act.

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In addition to the comments above, remember that Edward was a minor when he made his will.

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Edward's "Device for the Succession" (his will), although it was witnessed and signed by his ministers, hadn't been submitted to Parliament (Edward died before it could be submitted). It contradicted the established Act of Succession, which was law.

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Parliament ruled the succession, not kings. Henry VIII's will was an exception, and one approved by Parliament. Edward's Devise for the Succession never went through Parliament.

But John Dudley's ambitions aside, consider what Henry VIII went through them get a male heir. It was not accepted generally that a Queen Regnant could succeed. Unfortunately there was a considerable dearth of male heirs at the time. Henry's daughters were unmarried and of questionable legitimacy. Henry 2 sisters were his only siblings who had heirs, and all of the surviving ones were female: Mary Queen of Scots if you discount the idea that Henry's sister Margaret gave up her place in the English succession when she married James IV; or if you follow Mary Tudor Brandon's line you end up with Frances Brandon Grey, who also had no make heirs.

Edward's Devise, if you look at the original, actually leaves the throne to Jane Grey's heirs male. But with Edward sinking fast and Jane married only a month when Edward VI died, the phrase was crossed out and replaced with Jane Grey herself and her heirs male. Whatever Dudley's plan, Edward was seeking to entail the crown to the next Tudor male heir.

It has always been said that Henry left Frances Brandon Grey out of the Succession for unknown reasons, but I remember Eric Ives had a discussion about this in his biography of Lady Jane Grey. Unfortunately, my Kindle died before I could get further into this bio and I haven't been able to finish it yet. But Ives is worth listening to.



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Thanks!

So you seem like the right person to ask: why didn't Henry or Edward make it his business to marry off his sisters and then raise the sons of the couple as the back-up successor? The sort of thing that Queen Elizabeth eventually did? I've never found a discussion of this.

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Henry made both his daughters illegitimate at various times in his reign, which left their status somewhat ambiguous. Edward didn't seem to be bothered about finding husbands for them, and his attempt to disinherit both of them and have jane succeed him suggests that he took their illegitimate status seriously.
Elizabeth wasn't particularly keen on having successors around, she didn't want anyone who was a threat to her. she was livid when Jane's sister Katherine had a son.

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Mary was the only child of Henry VIII and Queen Catherine to survive childhood.

Elizabeth was the only child of Henry VIII and Queen Anne.

Edward VI was the only child of Henry VIII and Queen Jane.

Edward was the only male heir which made him heir to the throne, he died childless.

Mary was the older daughter so she was next in line when Edward died. She died childless. Elizabeth was next in line after Mary.

Jane Grey was a cousin to the Royal children with no claim to the throne under the laws of succession. By law she was a usurper. At that time the penalty for usurping the throne was death.

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Actually, the rule of succession is "Whatever the king says goes."

When Henry VIII had his marriage to first Queen Catherine, then to Queen Anne annulled, both Mary and Elizabeth were made illegitimate, which means they could not inherit the title of queen, because one had to be considered legitimate to become queen.

Then sometime later, they were made legitimate, which means they now could become queen after their half-brother Edward VI died, if he had no heirs. Except . . .

When it became apparent that Edward VI was going to die without heir, an effort was made to keep the Catholic Mary from coming to the throne, as people feared, she would then try to return England to Catholicism, which was what happened. And one of the ways this was done was to make once more Mary and Elizabeth illegitimate, which would keep them from becoming queen, because someone who was illegitimate could not be queen.

Actually, Lady Jane had some claim to the throne, being 4th in line of succession to it, behind Mary, then Elizabeth, then Jane's mother, who was somehow related to all of these, then Jane as the eldest daughter.

And when Jane's mother passed on becoming queen, Lady Jane then became the next in line to become queen.

The problem with all this was that most of the people in England could care less whether a Protestant, as Jane, or a Catholic, as Mary, became England's Queen. Thus, they rose up in support of Mary's claim to the throne, illegitimate as she may have been or not.

The irony of all this is hindsight being 20/20, Lady Jane was probably the better choice to be queen, considering what happened under Mary's rule.

And no, I do not have a specific source for all this (maybe someone else does.) It's just what I have picked up over the years reading about all the ins and outs of this.

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