MovieChat Forums > Heartburn (1986) Discussion > Question: do men write books/films about...

Question: do men write books/films about how hurt / abused they were?


poor ms nora
And name names? I find it kind of reprehensible, actually.

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Why do you find it reprehensible?

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Because regardless of of who cheated on whom, I think it shows a lack of dignity, to retaliate on the spouse who spurned you by exploiting them in the media. In other words, being a crybaby as if she was too special to accept what happened to her. So when I asked if men do this, my underlying message was that men are not less sensitive by refraining to do the same.

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Do you think it is possible that by "complaining" the party will feel some kind of closure? I think some people probably cannot let go of past hurts. But I also think that sometimes people just want to be heard. I could understand that.

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That's a nice sentiment, but how fair is that to the other party? What if we all did that? Maybe Carl wants to be heard but has to much class and maturity to announce to the world how awful his ex-wife possibly was.

The place to be heard is a doctor's office and during divorce proceedings, not busily ($$)leeching off your ex-spouse by writing books and films to vent your anger and revenge, disguised as "closure". The truth is that a man could not get away with doing it because instead of being applauded, he'd be criticized. I, personally, would not do it because my conscience would bother me, and I'd feel embarrassed.

Most of us have hearts that have been burned, but that is part of life, and self-acceptance.

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I agree with you when you talk about integrity and people who go around airing their dirty laundry probably don't have much. I wonder how many people/celebrities who do this are primarily motivated by money?

I think a good case would be to look at Bette Davis' daughter, B.D. Hyman vs. Joan Crawford's daughter, Christina. I have read both book and have read the public opinions about both women and the books they wrote.

Both women have been maligned for writing their book. But whereas B.D. Hyman's book was almost universally dismissed, public opinion on Christina's book seems to be about 50/50. Reading the kinds of stuff that Hyman writes about and the ridiculous "note" she writes to her famous mother makes me believe that Hyman was being self-righteous and overly precious, AND the content that she tries to pass off as child abuse is ABSURD in the extreme. She had to have been delusional to think that people weren't going to see through her and her book.

Christina, however, I think is a different case. She wrote the book after her mother had died and after she had learned that she had been left out of the will, so I would imagine she probably felt burned ("for reasons which are well-known to them") by good old Mommie. So I would think that, yes, money was a factor for Christina. I just wonder if she would have been motivated to write her book if Joan had not left her out of the will. That bit of business was pretty rude of Joan, I felt, and with that "for reasons..." epilogue pretty much drove home Joan's point. From what I have seen of Christina (e.g., her appearance on Phil Donahue promoting the book) and the book itself, she seemed like a pretty sad, beaten woman. I don't get that she derived any glee from writing the book. Do I think she was resentful and angry towards her mother? Absolutely! And I feel that she had every right to be. And while I do feel that people have every right to their feelings, it somehow feels different for somebody like CC. Because Joan obviously overshadowed every aspect of Christina's (and Christopher) life, I would think it would extremely difficult for Christina to forge her own identity and her own life; that is, harder than it is for most people who have selfish, overbearing parents. Not every child has Joan Crawford for a parent. And I do think that Joan was much more "mentally disturbed" than Bette, who just seemed like she was wound too tight.

With this in mind, CC probably never felt that she had ever been heard past her mother. And everybody does want to be heard. And like the last line from the movie implies, it was finally Christina's turn to have the last word. After all those years, Joan more than had it coming. So I think it is probably a case by case scenario.

And for your other point, yes, I think that there are other standards applied to men, who are usually expected to let things like this roll off their backs more. Though I do believe that one of Bing Crosby's sons wrote a "tell all" about their father. Who knows? Maybe being the child of such an all-consuming personality can result in an underdeveloped person, in which case that personal integrity is just not going to be there. Look at Christina. She is still peddling her tale, going around waving wire hangers in public. I am not disregarding her. I think it is sad.

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I will read your coments about C.C. later, but has nobody ever commented about Miss Nora before? Interesting

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I don't know all that much about Nora Ephron. Was she the accuser or the accused? I know she died recently.

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she wrote the screenplay and novel based on herself for Heartburn about her cheating ex-husband played by Jack. Is that what you mean? The poor put-upon wife who finds emergence when she becomes an independent career-woman, and so forth

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Oh, I guess I did know that part about Nora Ephron. lol! Yeah, I don't know. Evidently, it was a liberating experience for women. I really can't relate to it.

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Actually, feeling liberated is gender-less, but strong inependent women don't resort to revenge, after the choices that they made. But of course, only women are perceived as those capable of feeling liberated (from their spouse).

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Actually, feeling liberated is gender-less

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Oh, I know that to be true! It's just that women's lib let everybody know. It's always been that way. It just got "louder" in the 70s! lol!

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how fair is it to the other party?
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I think Carl relinquished his rights to all notions of fairness when he cheated on his wife.

what if we all did that?
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Well, every time any one of us complains about another person, we really are kind of doing that. The main difference here is that Nora and Carl are known to the public and so relative strangers will actively seek out her story.

Maybe Carl wants to be heard but has too much class and maturity
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I think any of Carl's aspirations to "classy" and "mature" got revoked when he screwed around behind his wife's back AND (assuming the movie is accurate) continued to do so after Nora became pregnant with their second child AND attempted to make her feel guilty for not considering the feelings of his mistress, i.e., "Thelma Rice", when she started the rumor.

Stay classy, Carl.


I thought I was gonna die! - Roseanne Roseannadanna

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Mr H, did you that "Thelma Rice is having an affair"? 😊 She looked like a bean pole.

Don't eat the whole ones! Those are for the guests. 🍪

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"Well it has to be somebody taller than she is! Which rules out practically everybody!"____________

Poor Rachel.

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I love the part in the jewelers, where Rachel suddenly comes to an epiphany and understands what is really going on behind her back AGAIN. Streep played this beautifully, and it was was such a natural reaction and response she gave. This is the Streep that was "real" and "in the moment" and something we didn't see that often, and was usually hidden behind her latest accent or forced mannerisms, to impress upon the audience what a talented actress she was and what she was capable of doing.

Don't eat the whole ones! Those are for the guests. 🍪

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Yeah, I've always liked this movie. I also like the scene when she's at the salon and she realizes for the FIRST time what's been going on. I've said it before, but I definitely prefer Streep in her no-showy performances.

"Yes, tubing, my precious one! Haven't you ever tubed?!" - Ida

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I think she did this movie due to a variety of factors.

I don't think it was as simple as she was just an angry divorcee.

People are complex & it's rare people do things due to just ONE reason usually it's a ton of factors.

I thought it was a great movie about empowerment & regardless, of the genders involved, I think anyone can benefit & learn and take something away from this movie.

I took from it that you can be independent; regardless, of how sad you feel & that you can overcome things that you ordinarily may not think you can overcome when the opportunity presents itself.

She realized that being cheated on wasn't the end of her life, but just the start of a new and fresh beginning.

I think Carly Simon's song, "Coming Around Again" is a great metaphor for this movie!

For me C.S.'s song is about having strength & realizing that sometimes our problems rear themselves again, but if we stay strong, then we can overcome them no matter how many times they come around. 




Happy Valentine's Day!

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How pretentious. It's not about empowering anybody, but some self-entitled rejected women seeking revenge--unless she didn't get enough $$ in the divorce. "Empowerment" is one of today's catch=words. Empowering is actually having the self-respect/pride to not seek revenge for the public.

But, SimplytheBest, you have a thing about men, ongoing, on so many boards. You feel so over-powered by the men you have known, and blame. Too bad.



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"Empowerment" is one of today's catch=words. Empowering is actually having the self-respect/pride to not seek revenge for the public.
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I don't think that Ephron's story was so much about "empowering" oneself; but "liberating" oneself, even if that might sound like it is mincing words a bit. I doubt that empowerment would have even been on Nora's mind or the intention behind her script. She went through a situation of marriage infidelity that I really don't think she had anticipated or was in denial about her own feelings. In the film, Rachel has doubts about getting married to Mark on her wedding day; but she overcame then and went ahead with the union. It could have been her instincts, yet she chose to ignore them. It all came crashing down around her.

Ephron was a writer\director and she was in the business to make money. You can't blame her for that and she wrote what she knew about from personal experience, and it was something that many people could relate too. If it was vengeful, and this has already been discussed in other posts on this same thread, then it was also born out of an anger and resentment she still carried around. That is no biggie, we all have them. To my mind, Heartburn ended up being a very enjoyable viewing experience and that is what I recall most, so I am pleased that she shared her story. Her husband ended up being a jerk and a phony, and while this might appear biased from her side of the coin, she felt betrayed. I would also be hard pushed to feel that her ex had much of a side at all, other than he was unfaithful to his wife, even after he claimed redemption. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. I think that was the point to this story.


Exorcist: Christ's power compels you. Cast out, unclean spirit.
Destinata:
💩

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liberation is empowering, though.

Dream until your dreams come true.

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Growing a spine is empowering too. Don't confuse the two, like some kind of a game. Liberate yourself by taking responsibility for yourself, instead of blaming men because your gender has the word "liberate" handy.

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I think you missed the whole point about this movie and should re-watch it.

Dream until your dreams come true.

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I don't think IY has even seen the film, but the source material and intention behind it being his point. Whatever the intention was, it is not that big of a deal really considering the entertainment value of the film. Ephron chose to tell her tale and it was a relevant tale as infidelities happen in marriages, and in this case, her husband just happened to be a slime. She wanted a committed union and thought she had found the right person for this. Ephron remarried after her split about 7 yrs later and was married for 25yrs until her death. We don't know Bernstein's side of the story and reasoning for his affairs and that does appear a bit biased though. However, the film is on Rachel's side and I find to be one of Streep's most natural and endearing performances. I bought into it regardless.

Exorcist: Christ's power compels you. Cast out, unclean spirit.
Destinata:💩

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by rascal67 » 5 hours ago (Sat May 21 2016 03:45:14)
IMDb member since April 2007
I don't think IY has even seen the film, but the source material and intention behind it being his point. Whatever the intention was, it is not that big of a deal really considering the entertainment value of the film. Ephron chose to tell her tale and it was a relevant tale as infidelities happen in marriages, and in this case, her husband just happened to be a slime. She wanted a committed union and thought she had found the right person for this. Ephron remarried after her split about 7 yrs later and was married for almost 20yrs until her death. We don't know Bernstein's side of the story and reasoning for his affairs and that does appear a bit biased though. However, the film is on Rachel's side and I find to be one of Streep's most natural and endearing performances. I bought into it regardless.


Great feedback!  Agreed! 

Dream until your dreams come true.

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Live with integrity and no one will have a reason to call you out.
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Wise and truer words have never been spoken Madame Che. 👌

Don't eat the whole ones! Those are for the guests. 🍪

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People write about their own experiences, if it happens to be an unfaithful husband, then, oh well. The truth hurts, eh?

sure..as long as the subject is not YOU, then suddenly it changes (particularly if the writer is a woman.

I could say something about your (revolving-door) close-up photo, along with a secret vid of my experience with you working at Walgreens (and the store no.), and paste it on Facebook, but I won't--even though it would be ok since "the truth hurts"

I could also write about our experience with PM's where you admitted your little friend on the imdb board must be evil or crazy to go to the lengths he does. You know, since the truth hurts. But I won't do that, either. Oh, sorry, maybe I just did.





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That reply has nothing do with what I wrote 20 mins ago.

The "secret vid" was a rhetorical scenario, not an actual vid. I said "if" that was to happen, would the adage "the truth hurts" still apply.

I could just as easily also ask you if Florence Henderson's "experience" with the senator giving her crabs was also "cathartic"-- or, instead, an exercise in attention-seeking, and whorish bad taste with no respect nor self-respect. (reserved for women , of course)

And you skipped right over my comparison about our PM's. You had to.

Yeah: integrity and maturity, as you say.

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Am I supposed to be intimidated? Why would I care what Henderson or anyone else said? I don't dwell on these things and don't really care about them

It's not a case of dwelling; the Henderson question was a comparison on "the truth hurts" cliche you spouted.. And the PM's question was the same. You are either thick or avoiding the question. Pass.

p.s. no need to sneak and run to the Debbie Reynolds board last night, to vent and call me a name. You could have done it with a brave face here.





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You remind me of my mother in the grand scheme of things; avoid, then act as if nothing happened so she doesn't have to face up to the situation and her actions. You see, as long as she waits long enough, then she assumes it's conveniently behind her, and won't be confronted anymore. And keep alliances with who will give her attention while betraying others, because she's too cowardly to take any one side. That's exactly who you remind me of. Then use words like "gross-out", when they really don't apply. How "female". Don't worry, I know what you're about. Good bye



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Whoa, mommy issues much?

*With her alive-nostrils once snaggle front-tooth crossing the other and wear bangs -InherentlyYours

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Whoa, mommy issues much?
That's just what I was thinking. Now his posts make more sense. Poor thing.

"Leave me to do my dark bidding on the internet!"

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......I think it shows a lack of dignity, to retaliate on the spouse who spurned you by exploiting them in the media.
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Bernstein was a "journalist" himself and while he assisted with Woodward in exposing the Watergate Scandal, I would question how many others he may have exploited himself, for the sake of a story and glory. How was his own integrity?



In other words, being a crybaby as if she was too special to accept what happened to her.
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I am not an Ephron fan and most of the stuff she had done was shallow, fluff and piffle. It was aimed at the simpleminded masses and most of her scripts should have been tarred, feathered and flung out of Hollywood......IMHO. I give her credit though for her co-written script for SILKWOOD-83' and HEARTBURN-86', which I was surprised, at how enjoyable I found it to be. It has a certain charm about it and I also found it oddly inspiring.

The film is on Rachel's side and it didn't really give us any real or solid reasoning for Mark's infidelity and this is bias. However, there may have been no reasoning for it, except that Mark was being foolish and self-serving. As a consequence, Rachel felt betrayed and burned and why shouldn't she be. Rachel had 2 young children and she came to a realization that she didn't need Mark—or a man—anymore and would cope on her own for a while. She empowered herself, which I see as a positive message.

Yes, it could have been born out of revenge and resentment; but Ephron chose to cry about it and then made a living out of it. This intention was for Ephron to deal with, her simple story or plight was universal though and that is what connects.

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'how was his own integrity? '
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so, she wants to sink to his level? But this is not revenge for Watergate, but a marriage/personal issue. I find it selfish and sets back women.
If your spouse was corrupt in business, that doesn't relate to your handling of the fact they cheated on you.

I don't care about her plight; I just feel that some things are private. If not, it's a from of leeching, and shows no class. While she was feeling self-pity, did she get a good chunk of money in the divorce?
But, that's just how I feel. I can't stand people who think are immune from anything bad happening in their precious lives

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so, she wants to sink to his level? But this is not revenge for Watergate, but a marriage/personal issue........I don't care about her plight; I just feel that some things are private.......While she was feeling self-pity, did she get a good chunk of money in the divorce?
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I wasn't referring to the Watergate incident as such; but journalism principles and ethics in general. What goes around comes around and I doubt Bernstein would have cared much for others, when dredging up stuff and making it news, that others may have considered 'private'. He should have thought about his own 'private' life, before embarking on the affair. That was the consequence.

The film was soft peddled and the Rachel character was a food critic, (which I don't think Ephron was), but her plight and any empathy you may choose to feel for the character, was the point of the film—you will either buy into it or you wont. To my mind, Streep made her likeable.

You have made a valid point and I agree with you almost 100%. Did Ephron really have it that bad? I would say not and she was MORE privileged than MOST. That was her given though and in spite of her self-entitlements, she had a story to tell and made it entertaining in the process.

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'He should have thought about his own 'private' life, before embarking on the affair. That was the consequence.'
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do men write books/films about how hurt / abused they were?

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do men write books/films about how hurt / abused they were?
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Most would move on. I suppose for some women, they may feel it is their prerogative for being female and this case, Bernstein—a writer himself—didn't have need to bother.......his ex got in first.

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'they may feel it is their prerogative for being female'
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uh-huh
And I'm sure readers would agree

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And I'm sure readers would agree
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Which would be predominately female readers. However in this scenario, he was a pr!@k to her, so she was a b!t@h to him. They probably deserved each other.

I enjoy tales about infidelity\adultery, so regardless of the intent, I don't mind that Ephron told her story. If it was a fictional story she wrote and made into the same film, no fingers would be pointed at her. It wasn't a fictional story; but was a generic one and something that happens to many couples. In that respect, it's just a story to tell anyway and one that a lot of people could relate too. I didn't relate to the situation from personal experience; but knew of people who had been in similar situations, so could empathize.

Interesting, that one of the main criticisms this film received was.....what is it about? Maybe this was deserved, in a sense that if a 'revenge' aspect was the driving force, then it's intentions weren't coming from the best of places. That is why I probably enjoy it, because of that 'dark' aspect, which also adds some understated humor and charm to the proceedings. If it weren't for Streep and Nicholson—or any other big name star at the time, if they had been cast—I doubt that anyone would have bothered with it. As it stands, if I just take it as a film about a cheating husband and a woman who liberates herself, I find it works quite well.

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Maybe it was part revenge, maybe it was part wanting to have her side of the story heard. Nothing undignified about that. If he didn't want to have his dirty laundry aired, maybe he should have washed his shorts.

I mean, whatever she did to him, what he did was worse and it was his heartless and selfish actions that prompted her to write her book.

What prominent female celebrity did a lot of extra-marital roaming? Zsa Zsa? I don't know, I think the media covers it. And while there is some kind of consensus that men are not supppsed to "complain" or want revenge against the cheating spouse. But, real courage, IY, is sticking to your convictions and being true to yourself, in spite of the fact that you will have to deal with many detractors.

You are not obligated to society or any person to try and fit the way you feel about anything to satisfy some agenda that you don't agree with and had no part in establishing. One of your biggest problems, IY, is that you need to acknowledge and accept and own your feelings and point of view as yours. Cultivate your inner self and, for God's sake, stop seeking out points of view that are different from your own. It is a very negative and frustrating and TOTALLY unproductive way to express yourself. And this thing you've got about calling yourself "Inherently Yours", you need to stop. It's passive-aggressive in the extreme, this way of presuming that it is all those people around, their self-confidence, their understanding of the "rules of the game" and their willingness to play the game in order to just get along and try to make a decent life for themselves. People are not indebted to your own sense of shame, IY. It is completely unreasonable to expect other people to be so willing "to cut off their nose to spite their face". You cannot resent somebody for trying to be optimistic and for trying to feel good about themselves. And even though I have never been a "group person" myself, I understand that most people are just doing the best that they can.

And, most important of all, you need to stop thinking that other people are in any way responsible for how you've come to arrive at your negative world view. Bad things happen to everybody. You are not exempt from the human condition. This "inherently yours" thing you're peddling is all backwards. You and your feelings and your point of view are YOURS and nobody else's. Your raison d'etre is to provoke people who've done absolutely nothing to you until they become hostile and then you can feel justified in your victim identity and feel like you've accomplished something worthwhile. These cannot be your goals.

It's time for you to find something new. Remember, when Ruth Gordon won the Oscar. And, at the age of 70, said in her acceptance speech: "I can't tell you how encouraging a thing like this is."

It's not too late for you. And nobody is going to judge you if the mistakes you make are honest and nobody is going to laugh at you if you let your defenses down. People are too busy living their own lives to want to stop and play Devil's Advocate ad nauseum.

You're always saying how none of this is a game. You're right, life is not a game.. so stop living it on IMDB and go outside and do just one new thing.

Good luck.

"Yes, tubing my precious one! Haven't you ever tubed?!!!"

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Oooooh, I'm gonna let Rascal field that one, Nan! (In the meantime, look for a pm.)


I thought I was gonna die! - Roseanne Roseannadanna

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Have you never tubed with Ida, Madame Che? Oh, what a jolly experience that is, that is until she tries to drown you because she pretends she can't swim. All she wants, is for your nutritious and succulent body to be planted in her secret garden, so it will satiate the rumbles in her tummy. What a wicked and devious woman that Ida is. Okey Dokey!

Don't eat the whole ones! Those are for the guests. 🍪

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But you look the most delicious Madame Che. 😋 However, if you are lucky and play your cards right with her, she might decide to not eat you and use you as an apprentice to learn about her cannibalistic ways. If you can't beat em, join em! 😨

Don't eat the whole ones! Those are for the guests. 🍪

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I might even deem you more wicked than Ida. I bet you are smacking your chops already.

Funny how this thread has turned out. I am over commenting anymore about Ephron's intention in writing her book and adapting it for film. I have said what I wanted to say and she just did what she did, due to her writers skill. Her ex could have written a book too if he wanted, he was a gifted writer\reporter himself. I guess he didn't have much of an excuse or relatable tale to tell though. 😄

Don't eat the whole ones! Those are for the guests. 🍪

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Funny how this thread has turned out...
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So true, Rascal!

In the meantime, you know who's stomach is rumbling.

"I CAN'T HELP IT"


"Yes, tubing, my precious one! Haven't you ever tubed?!" - Ida

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"That's right, child! All we want is for you to get better! Now, you go to bed!"


"Yes, tubing, my precious one! Haven't you ever tubed?!" - Ida

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Vincent: "Sometimes I wonder about the karmic implications of these actions."

Did he say this to Ida?

Don't eat the whole ones! Those are for the guests. 🍪

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I just got done watching it. Yeah, he did.

"Yes, tubing, my precious one! Haven't you ever tubed?!" - Ida

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I love that line and it so full of irony in the context of their actions. Vincent and Ida truly believed in what they were doing, yet at the same time, had some sort of inkling of how evil they were, but with hardly any acknowledgement or sense of awareness about it. What a little gem!😄

Don't eat the whole ones! Those are for the guests. 🍪

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Oh, Ida totally rocks my world, Rascal. With Ida, I'm just always so confused about whether to laugh my butt off or be terrified.

And that's exactly why I love her! I expect you find this quality appealing as well, Rascal!



"Yes, tubing, my precious one! Haven't you ever tubed?!" - Ida

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She was funny and terrifying all at the same time. That is why the movie is a corker, it had the right balance of tongue in cheek, blended in with the horror aspects. Life can be a black comedy, just as this film was. Or perhaps Mr. H, if you don't laugh at Ida, you would have to scream in fear instead. 😱

Don't eat the whole ones! Those are for the guests. 🍪

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Wow, you're a better person than I am. That was really heartfelt and spot on. Wish IY would see some sense in it.

*With her alive-nostrils once snaggle front-tooth crossing the other and wear bangs -InherentlyYours

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But not mussy stuff like this.

"It's the system, Lara. People will be different after the Revolution."

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I think that this is art. Non-fiction has always been stronger than fiction. What's wrong with telling our story ? What's wrong with writing about it, or making music,or drawing a painting ? Where do you think the ost beautiful forms of art have come from ? They have all come from our very own personal experiences.

Social media is however different subject. If she did this, of course it would have been reprehensible. But I think you're talking about this movie here.

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Fine line between "art" and social media. It's always more entertaining when it's told from the womens' point of view.

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I couldn't help but laugh at your whining about Ephron's "lack of dignity" when her husband was having an affair with another man's wife while his own was pregnant. How "dignified" was that?

"Leave me to do my dark bidding on the internet!"

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I couldn't help but laugh at your whining about Ephron's "lack of dignity" when her husband was having an affair with another man's wife while his own was pregnant. How "dignified" was that?
What are you whining about behind your false-laugh? You missed the point of the thread, naturally. Self-absorbed? Why not contribute something?

And if he wrote about her cheating, I would feel the same about him. This board is to express how all of us interpret and feel about things, not just whining females who feel special and self-entitled, anyway. If I wrote about such a scenario, I'd feel like a crybaby over my failed relationship, as I collect millions from the book. Also, not all of us are that spoiled to seek revenge because our divorce settlement $$ wasn't enough for us. Again, a man would be criticized for writing about his marriage and bad luck, instead of the boo-hoo applause from bookreaders.




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I don't know how much you know about Norah Ephron, but writing was a huge part of her life. It's how her parents made a living, and all of her sibling are writers as well. Simply put, it's what she did, and she wrote from what she lived.
Bernstein dragged on their divorce for years because he was afraid of how he'd be portrayed in the movie. Somehow I doubt he thought about how others would see him when he was destroying his family while sleeping with another man's wife.
He will always be a journalistic hero of mine because of his and Woodward's coverage of Watergate, but you have to admit, he was a pretty lousy husband.
If writing the truth were something he was afraid of, he was in the wrong profession and married the wrong woman. He knew she was a writer before they married. I don't think "Heartburn" was revenge, as you seem to insist it was. I think it was her way of dealing with a very painful part of her life and moving forward afterward.

"Leave me to do my dark bidding on the internet!"

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Aim-JE
I don't wish to make this a longer thread than it already is, but we are not connecting. You are commenting as if you think I condone cheating, so therefore, you are confused as to why I would object to her writing about it. No, I think cheating on your partner is one of the worst hurtful selfish things a person can do.

Her being a writer is not relevant. She could be a riveter-welder and write a book, and I'd have the same opinion (though nobody would be interested in buying it) Because she was a writer doesn't change the nature of the scenario except that it was literally easier to write a book. (everything doesn't revolve around "screenplays", either and films)

My point is that this type of revenge is something that a spoiled narcissistic person does, whether the writer is male or female. Life has it's ups and owns, and downright tragedies, yet we all don't make an announcement to the world because our feelings our hurt. Nobody promised her this endlessly blissful life, that would be untouched by pain or bad luck. But if having a charmed life is all she knows, then that would make her feel above it.

The other part of the thread is whether a man would do the same thing, and whether people would say "it was his way of dealing with a very painful part of her life and moving forward afterward." Interestingly, not many answers on the board for that. Men don't get that liberty. A woman's pain seem to be taken for granted as being more special than a man's. It's practically delved into out subconscious

I hope I have explained my POV better, but you didn't say anything but to laugh. Again, what he did was an act of betrayal, that part is not lost on me; it's how she reacted to it. And I know what it is to be hurt, but I would not tell the world to "ease" my pain because then I would be the narcissistic opportunistic shallow one. Life is not fair, as you know, but what she did makes her as selfish as her cheating ex-husband.





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[deleted]

My point is that this type of revenge is something that a spoiled narcissistic person does, whether the writer is male or female.
And I'll say again, I don't believe it was revenge. Writing from life is what she did. Was she supposed to lose that too? And at least she was able to keep on writing and support herself and two young children.
Revenge would have been to stop writing and demand he support her and their sons. She had grounds and could have bankrupted him. Instead, as I stated before, she used writing to get over it and move on.
Bernstein was, as he insisted he be, portrayed as a good and loving father in the movie. Oh, and the movie was a critical flop. It didn't make her rich. That came later.

"Leave me to do my dark bidding on the internet!"

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First, be aware: my username was hacked/duplicated, and someone is posting in my exact name.

Writing from life is what she did. Was she supposed to lose that too?
Writing about him is the only subject she knew about? Of course her book was revenge-driven, since everybody knew who she was, and his identity. Not writing about him was not losing her writing career. You're aware that there are so many narcissistic people, so I find interesting that Nora E. could not be one of them. Because her husband was narcissistic does not mean she wasn't either. It's not a big leap to accept it. If she was not an admired famous writer, would you accept it easier? You seem to not want to accept the cold hard truth for some reason.

Revenge would have been to stop writing and demand he support her and their sons. She had grounds and could have bankrupted him.
That doesn't make sense; the reality is that the ex-husband man is obligated to support his sons. That would not be "revenge", but normal. She was paid for the book/screenplay and got revenge, hitting two birds with one stone. She received no child support or do you mean alimony? If she didn't ask for child support, that was foolish; asking for child support is not losing her dignity , or something. I dont know what you mean by bankrupted him, though.

Instead, as I stated before, she used writing to get over it and move on.
Yes, I understand what "moving on" means. Yet plenty of women authors would not do as she did for the same reason I stated earlier. She was pitying herself, which is hypocritical, since anyone else is criticized for self-pity.

And again, my question is not answered: that a man who did what she did would be met with criticism and called a sissy, etc. Yet, she is applauded for it. That double-standard does not exist?


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First, be aware: my username was hacked/duplicated, and someone is posting in my exact name.
-------------------------------

So which posts are you disowning, IY? And which ones would you like to attribute to the phantom menace?

So, are the posts about Carrie Fisher being a selfish, spoiled narcissist yours of the phony IY's?

Are the posts about people giving Cher a 'free pass' due to Cher being Cher your posts or phony IY?

Are the posts about how Meryl Streep doesn't have Patty Duke's comic timing yours or phony IY?

Is the post about how that Jim Donald Ellis "really has talent, that Jim" yours or TommySSS?

Are the posts about how Helen Reddy is a better singer than Barbra Streisand yours or phony IY?

Are the posts about how John Travolta and Joyce DeWitt and Jack Cassidy and Mira Sorvino and Eddie Redmayne and Linda Blair are all GAY, GAY, GAY (or at the very least, bisexual) yours or phony IY?

Are the posts about how Cindy Williams really is not as nice as people think yours or phony IY?

Are the posts about how unfair life is yours or phony IY?

Are the posts about Florence Henderson being a horny slut yours or phony IY?

Are the posts about sensing ingratitude from Cheryl Ladd yours or phony IY?

Are the posts about how Dawn Wells is secretly envious of the obviously more beautiful and talented Tina Louise (NOT!) yours or phony IY?

Are the posts about how nobody but IY knows the trouble IY has seen yours or phony IY?

Who is going to report this post, you or phony IY?


You can see how all this and much, much more makes you out to be IMDB's biggest sphincter muscle, can't you, IY?



Yes, tubing, my precious one! Haven't you ever tubed?!" - Ida

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Writing about him is the only subject she knew about?
You really need to learn more about Nora Ephron. Do you remember the jokes about her first husband's hamsters? That was based on real life. I guess Bernstein didn't think writing the truth was so funny when it was about him.
that a man who did what she did would be met with criticism and called a sissy
No, he'd be called a writer. If it were anyone else having an extramarital affair with the wife of a UK ambassador to the United States and he were assigned he story, do you think he'd hesitate about writing it? No. He'd be doing his job. Ephron's job was writing, and she didn't abandon that just because of who her husband was.

"Leave me to do my dark bidding on the internet!"

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Aim-JE
I said so much more in my previous post--which you would not, or could not, debate. Anyway, you are focused on her being a writer, while I am trying to address the human condition. One is exclusive of the other.

For example, because John Doe has the skill to ride motorcycles does not mean he world steal and ride away with your motorcycle if you betrayed and hurt him. Seeking revenge by stealing your motorcycle due to you betraying John Doe would be a separate decision whether he was skillful at riding motorcycles or not.

Point being: A writer/non-writer who writes/does not write about her ex-husband. The two are different ideas. I dont' need to know more about her life (or career) , except what occurred. Because she was hurt, because she was cheated on, because she had bad luck...does not mean that she was not a spoiled Jewish woman from Long island who thought she was extra-special, anyway.
Bye




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Why are you constantly obsessed with pointing out everyones supposed "double standards"? Everyone is human. Everyone has moments of hypocricy (some more than others.. just like you judging people's typos while making your own).

Why not start worrying about your own issues rather than worrying about someone who you don't even know, and never will.

You endlessly bitch about the obsession with celebrities, yet you yourself are totally obsessed.

*With her alive-nostrils once snaggle front-tooth crossing the other and wear bangs -InherentlyYours

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[deleted]

A writer who writes about life writes about life, period.
Your motorcycle reference is ridiculous.

"Leave me to do my dark bidding on the internet!"

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It doesn't matter if she was a writer, but you don't have the reasoning skills to understand the difference. A writer doesn't just write about themself. And a non-writer (by profession) does write about themself. This is elementary, dear. Period

Therefore, any analogy, even if it was pitch-perfect, would be ridiculous to you. (it's called a comparison/analogy, not a reference) I already said "bye" to you previously, since you don't have the insight (aside from your possible sexism)













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For someone who says he'd feel like a cry baby for writing the truth about their life, you seem incredibly thin-skinned and have resorted to insulting insinuations because I disagree with you. You're going to have a long, hard, unhappy life if you keep this up. I'm very sorry for you.

"Leave me to do my dark bidding on the internet!"

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[deleted]

Exactly Madame Che, lets just rose tint the world to keep us safe from our trouble and pain.🎶

Don't eat the whole ones! Those are for the guests. 🍪

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[deleted]

That dog wasn't going to let know one get in it's way of fun and miss out on something that looked awesome.

Don't eat the whole ones! Those are for the guests. 🍪

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[deleted]

No matter how many times you have my post deleted, you're still straddling the hog, and your motorcycle analogy is beyond ridiculous.

I expect it's all that personal information you shared with me that you don't want people knowing about. Hehe...


"Yes, tubing, my precious one! Haven't you ever tubed?!" - Ida

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