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The Theatrical Cut is superior and is the definitive version of this movie

posted 2 years ago by sati_84 (441)
34 replies | jump to latest

I consider all the Special Edition's additions of little to no value, and here is why:

Ripley's daughter - The goal of this scene is to establish Newt as the new daughter for Ripley. The first movie did not mention Ripley's daughter once, so this is kind of a neutral addition. We don't really need an explanation on why Ripley would try to protect Newt, any sane adult would do the same. Watching the SE, no one ever said "oh, so that's why!" - this does not add anything to Ripley's character. It was a good decision not to have it in the TC.

Hadley's Hope scenes - We don't really need them. I would even say that these scenes are harmful to the overall experience. It's much better to only see the colony in the aftermath of the alien infestation. Seeing HH operating normally cheapens the impact of the tour of the marines later in the movie - as we have already seen this place, and the buildup is ruined.

Newt's family expedition - This scene has no surprises, since the second they go to the derelict, we know what is going to happen. And it destroys the revelation which comes later, that Burke was the one that sent them there. The way it is built up in the TC is genius - we don't really think about "why now" until Ripley says that she looked up the orders and Burke sent them there. Not that shocking, but the revelation scene is full of raw emotion, impactful and effective. But it loses much of its effect in the SE - the audience just goes "yeah, I know that they were sent there".

Hudson's bragging - Bill Paxton is great, but this scene is just too on the nose. Even without this, the hubris of the marines is evident and well established during the movie. At best, it's a neutral scene, I don't miss it at all.

Hinting at the queen - Maybe the most iconic single shot in this movie is the queen revelation - and the impact is ruined if a queen is mentioned in the dialogue beforehand... The TC was right to omit this.

Ripley and Newt extra dialogue - This scene tries to payoff the buildup of the daughter scene, but it's really not needed to understand the character dynamic between them. Oh, and this:

When Ripley tucks Newt into bed, Newt asks about her family and if human babies come the same way as Chestbursters. Ripley, of course, says that it's very different.

This... this is downright silly...

The sentry guns - The sentry scenes cheapen the threat, as the aliens keep on swarming the chokepoints, mindlessly for a while. In the TC, they seem like much more sophisticated, as their first course of action is to come from the ceiling. So I don't mind it's not in the TC.

Ripley and Hicks first name exchange - This is kind of meant as a romantic moment between them, but we completely understand their relationship with the scenes given in the TC - so this is not needed.

Ultimately, the TC is superior for me, mainly because how perfect the buildup until the point we witness the hive. The fact that the marines are late to the party, and that we did not see the normal operation of HH beforehand, creates a unique atmosphere where it's up to the viewer's imagination to piece together what exactly went down. All the HH and the Newt family expedition scenes only cheapen this impact, which is counter-productive.

As I have shown, the rest of the extra scenes also don't add virtually any value. My conclusion: the TC is the best version of the movie.

Feel free to agree or disagree and add your thoughts.

[–] wearsalan (5554) 2 years ago

Tbf, I know it's personal preference, but allow me to give my opinion on said scenes.

Ripleys daughter: I always seen it as showing how much Ripley has lost as much as anything.

Hadleys Hope: I thought seeing as a thriving, vibrant community and then seeing it as a ghost town was very effective.

Newts family expedition: Despite having no surprises it was nice to see the derelict again.

Hudsons bragging: Emphasises how over confident the Marines were, so it does its' job.

Hinting at the Queen: The TC does this by saying 'So what's laying the eggs'? The extra extrapolation is probably not needed though.

Ripley and Newt extra dialogue: Bit soppy and not needed.

The sentry guns: Watching the TC and then the DC the movie (TC) seems a bit choppy with the scene missing. Once you've seen it, it is hard to dismiss it. I think it also shows that despite having the guns, it doesn't really help them too much.

Ripley and Hicks name exchange: Agreed, it wasn't needed.

Overall though, the DC was Camerons preferred cut of the movie. He cut it back because the studio were worried about length of it detracting from the amount of times it could be shown in theatres per day.

[–] sati_84 (441) 2 years ago

Fair points, let me react to a few:

Hinting at the queen: in the TC, "what is laying the eggs?" is a legitimate question, and it's a real subtle way of hinting at the queen, which I like - and I can see we agree on that.

Sentry guns: Yes, the "I want you to walk the perimeter" cut is a bit weird, but it makes sense in the TC as well. It's a double edged sword: on the one hand it shows how close and tense every encounter is with the aliens, as the ammo counter goes down. But it really is dumbing down the aliens. So overall I think the TC is more effective, without the sentry scenes.

Overall though, the DC was Camerons preferred cut of the movie

Right, but I always go Death of the Author on any movie I am analyzing. So regardless of director intention, I prefer the TC, as it is a consistent and brilliant experience.

Interestingly, when it comes to Cameron, T2 is the opposite for me. There, I think the Director's Cut scenes add to the lore and the plot as well. Especially the glitching of the T-1000 in the steel mill - the effect was brilliantly done, and the fake Sarah's feet melting into the floor doesn't really make sense without it. I think the T2 DC is superior to the TC in every way, so I don't watch the T2 TC anymore.

[–] wearsalan (5554) 2 years ago

Yeah, with T2 it definitely improves what is already a good movie. I think Aliens comes down to personal preference.

[–] 123Guy (6147) 2 years ago

yep.
they make a movie, then cut out all the fat, to tighten it up, keep it moving and make it more interesting, in a shorter run time. none of it was needed and it was good in theater as is.

seeing the extras is kinda cool later, but def slows things down

[–] kuatorises (7467) 2 years ago

Is Ripley's daughter not mentioned in the theatrical cut? I always remembered her asking Burke about her. Is that an extra and I not realize I was watching the director's cut?

I don't remember all these scenes. I don't remember any of the Ripley/Newt stuff. Definitely remember the Hadley's Hope scenes, including Newt's parents. I didn't mind them. Added some depth.

[–] sati_84 (441) 2 years ago

Is Ripley's daughter not mentioned in the theatrical cut? I always remembered her asking Burke about her. Is that an extra and I not realize I was watching the director's cut?

No, she is not mentioned in the TC. And was not mentioned in Alien either.

[–] kuatorises (7467) 2 years ago

What?! What happens after she's found? I don't remember and after looking this morning apparently have the Special Edition. I never had an issue with that scene.

Is there no gun scene in the theatrical cut or a different gun scene?

[–] sati_84 (441) 2 years ago

In the TC, after she is found, she meets Burke, learns about the 57 year gap, then we are going immediately to the boardroom scene.

And no, no sentry guns at all in the TC.

[–] brux (14666) 2 years ago

The great thing about this movie is not its logic ... it's ridiculous, but instead its transporting of the viewer to another world that is so astonishing, so with respect to that - longer is better. Whichever version is longer holds you in that suspension of disbelief state like you are with the Marines and they are just like our own military, but in a future world.

[–] sati_84 (441) 2 years ago

Generally I agree with you, but in the case of Aliens, when I first saw it at 11, I saw the TC, then a few years later I watched the DC and as much as I wanted to spend more time in the universe of the movie, none of the additions seemed too worthwile.

So in my mind, the TC was already the definitive version by that point. So I'd go with quality over quantity here - but I perfectly understadnd where you are coming from.

[–] maul (1530) 2 years ago

I like all the extra stuff. Maybe some of it doesn't add much (like Hadley's Hope), but none of it bogs the movie down imo. Other scenes, like Ripley's daughter, add additional depth - which is a plus. Overall I definitely miss the scenes when they aren't there, when watching the TC.

[–] mechajutaro (2788) 2 years ago

Was Ripley's daughter mentioned in the first movie? I don't recall that scene

[–] maul (1530) 2 years ago

No, wasn't mentioned in Alien.

[–] prometheus1816 (1051) 2 years ago

No, but in the novelization of the film she was. It's stuff like that toe that makes films interesting. The reason Jones was on the ship was due ro his mousing abilities but also he was Ripley's daughter's cat and she didn't want Ripley to be alone. This according to the novelization.

[–] R_Kane (15828) a year ago

The asshole who coined the word “novelization” (1) does not know the difference between a noun and a verb, (2) was obviously the brother-in-law of someone who “worked” on the movie, and (3) is an ex post facto apologist for all the prepubescent virgin fanboys who did not see what they had hoped for in the actual fucking movie. The Director’s Cut is The One True Cut.

How many of those here mewling for the shorter theatrical cut shot in their pants for the 3.5 hours of The Farman?

[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

it's been a long time since i watched either cut, but i generally agree with you, with a few deviations. i think ripley's daughter is a good addition & should have been in the final cut (if only to show that this woman had some kind of life...), & i thought the sentry guns were very neat.

i think the other things you've mentioned were best left on the cutting room floor. it's fun to look at them as deleted scenes, though.

[–] ExTechOp (2738) 2 years ago

I agree with everything except for one minor quibble: the sentry guns scenes aren’t unnecessary so much as legitimately different. They change the tone of the second act’s setting from a haunted house to a bunker during a siege.

However, now that I own both versions, I watch the extended version more often.

I feel exactly the same way, incidentally, about Cameron’s T2, Titanic and Abyss. I like the extended versions and watch them more, but strongly believe the theatrical cuts are superior.

Same w/ Lord of the Rings.

Sometimes, SOMETIMES, the “suits” are right, and less is more. Seems by making Cameron cut his films down, they forced him to make them better.

At least in my opinion/

[–] sati_84 (441) 2 years ago

Agreed, except for T2 - there, the DC is superior. At least the glitching at the end should've been kept in the TC.

[–] ExTechOp (2738) 2 years ago

Agreed about the glitching ... nice to confirm that the T-1000 was vulnerable to give the protagonists hope (although the vulnerability had nothing to do with its defeat). I do recall wondering what that silver stripe was for; wife & I thought he was just fixing his hair.

But I maintain that the TC ending was better. True, seeing adult John's scarred face called for some kind of closure; seeing Senator John completed that loop. But the unknown highway just seemed more poignant to me.

Anyway, we're on the wrong board now.

[–] sati_84 (441) 2 years ago

The glitching is important, since in the TC the viewer does not understnad why the fake Sarah's feet are melting into the floor! It doesn't have a buildup at all, and it seems like a really lucky random glitch at that point - while including the buildup it is justified.

But I maintain that the TC ending was better. True, seeing adult John's scarred face called for some kind of closure; seeing Senator John completed that loop. But the unknown highway just seemed more poignant to me

I think you are confusing things here. The shot of the 40+ years old John's scarred face is at the beginning of the film (both TC and DC), so it's included either way.

Agreed on the highway, but the ending was not changed in the DC either. There is an extra ending where Sarah is narrating that Judgment Day did not happen in 1997, but that's a deleted scene through and through.

[–] ExTechOp (2738) 2 years ago

Clarification: I was talking about the extra ending and you're right, while included as a deleted scene, it was never part of the DC.

The melting into the floor wasn't in the TC though, of that I'm sure (that's why I thought the silver "wipe" was the T-1000 fixing his hair - judging from the theater laughter, me & the wife weren't the only ones).

So ... OK, I've changed my mind on T2. Cameron claims the T-1000 glitches threw off the pacing, but I still like the sense of hope that comes from seeing its fallibility/vulnerability.

And of course the chip removal scene was awesome.

[–] sati_84 (441) 2 years ago

The melting into the floor wasn't in the TC though, of that I'm sure.

I remember it being in there... I need to double check sometime.

Cameron claims the T-1000 glitches threw off the pacing

When watching the DC, I never feel the pacing suffers. Mostly because the glitching scenes are excellent, the shot of his hand inadvertedly mimicking the railing pattern and the subsequent "snap" is so great I just can't believe it was done with 1991 tech. Mindblowing, I think Cameron's heat was bleeding when he needed to cut that out, no wonder he included it in the DC. And hey, this sounds like a contradiction: if he says it throws off the pacing, why did he include it in the one version where he has 100% control - the DC? He deliberately made the pacing worse in his version...? That's a weird statement.

And I think the glitching does not give too much hope to the audience at that point. Yes, the mimicking ability is failing, but there is still the question of how it will eventually be defeated... after all, we have just witnessed him blowing up and scattering to the floor in a million pieces and a while later he is pursuing them again! What else can they come up with to get rid of him for good? The finale is masterfully built up and filmed, so the glitching not only doesn't hurt, it adds to the tension!

[–] ExTechOp (2738) a year ago

if he says it throws off the pacing, why did he include it in the one version where he has 100% control - the DC?

Good point, so good in fact that I looked up where I got that "pacing" comment, i.e., the illustrated screenplay book back in the days before readily available DVDs or VHS copies for less than $85.

The exact wording was, "it was felt that the pacing was slowed" by the glitching scenes.

Given your point about including it in the DC, I think "it was felt" was actually code for what the suits believed and forced onto Cameron, who was at the time still evolving into the behemoth that he's become

[–] sati_84 (441) a year ago

You looked it up? Thanks for this!

And yes, I guess the suits wanted to cram one more showing into the day, so some scenes had to go...

[–] sonans (1209) 2 months ago

What are you talking? Titanic has no extended version, it only has one version.

[–] ExTechOp (2738) 2 months ago

There's a "White Star Extended Edition" that adds about 30min worth of deleted scenes (but not the alternate ending thank god)

[–] T79 (119) 2 years ago

I like the special edition more because it kind of creates a dreamscape out of the movie. I like seeing more footage of Newt, she's like a dreamgirl to me.