MovieChat Forums > A Little Princess (1987) Discussion > a question about the part where sara get...

a question about the part where sara gets the new doll

posted 15 years ago by dqmwfan
23 replies | jump to latest

I have had the first release of this movie in the 2 vhs set from wonderworks , i got a sort time before it went out of print and wore it out Love this movie it is my all time faverite . I had some others come to be that until i finally got the DVD yaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Ok now to my question : In the scean where capine crew and sara are talking about crew geting sara the doll , well , on the VHS and the organal airing did they show sara and her father going and buying Emily and then geting some cotthes for her also . I know they talk about that in the book yes but i could have been so sure that they had that in this version of the story . This is so faithful to the book i hope that they never make another version nothing could equaal this .

I really hope someone can answer this , it is really bugging me i love how they put the organal on this DVD i mean showing it in the 6 part way , i could tell from the VHS that they where edited to not have that and it buged me a bit LOL .

I hope that i am wrong that the scean about shopping for the doll was not there that i am just thinking of the book , it will make me sad if they did edit it out LOL .
Well if they did ediite out i hope they put it on a blu ray release i am going to get it again no matter what this movie needs to be on blu ray and dvd .

The best movie ever .

[–] CCsito 12 years ago

I recently purchased both a 3 VHS tape set and the DVD version and can address your question (sorry for being over 2 years late in responding).

The VHS tape version DOES NOT have any scenes involving the purchase of the Emily doll. In fact, there is a major plot hole with Sara leaving India and then traveling in the carriage to go to the school. She is seen holding the doll in her arms and no discussion about it is made with her father as they sit in the carriage (at least in the DVD version, she tells him how Emily was waiting to be bought by her in the England store which made for a special bond to the doll), so the viewer does not know if the doll was purchased in India, England or somewhere else or if it was a new or old doll. In the DVD version, Sara talks to her father before she leaves India about buying a doll to keep her company during his absence. This discussion is not seen on the VHS version. So I think the only detailed doll shopping scene is in the book. Her father remains with Sara for several days in the book version, unlike in the TV series where he leaves soon after seeing her room. There is another version made in the early 1970s that was also shown on UK TV. I don't believe that anyone has made that version available for sale anywhere.

[–] eskelly 11 years ago

When I was a kid, my mom taped this off of PBS, and I definitely remember there was a scene where they purchased the doll. I just re-watched the entire miniseries - someone posted in on YouTube, and the version there was also missing the scene where Sara finds the doll in the English shop.

[–] CCsito 11 years ago

I did not see the original PBS Wonderworks presentation on TV, but my 3 VHS tape set has no such scene about the purchase of the doll. If the YouTube video is based on the VHS tape or DVD set, then I would think that it would be missing the doll purchase scene. The DVD version only shows her with the doll as she and her father are riding in the carriage and she talks to him about the doll. The scene shifted straight from India to the carriage scene. There is no scene involving the buying of the doll from the store. The VHS tape and DVD versions have edits in different places from the TV series. The distributor company of each version had an editor who made scene selections from a full timed copy. Maybe the TV presentation also had an editor making different edits? I even came across a scene (when Sara exclaims "A diamond mine?!" at her father) that is filmed from two different angles between the VHS and DVD version. So the series was shot from multiple angles for certain scenes for some reason.

Maybe you can get a copy of the VHS tape from your mom? Unfortunately, the tapes do degrade over time. I believe that there was a more complete version of the TV show before the tape and DVD versions were created.

[–] CCsito 11 years ago

I played back the beginning of both the 3 VHS tape set and the DVD version. The VHS (PBS Wonderworks) version does not have anything mentioned about the doll right up until Sara arrives at the school. The DVD version does have her talking to her father in India about purchasing a doll to help her not feel too sad about being apart from her father. She says that she expects a doll that she will name "Emily" will be waiting for her at the store. When the scene moves forward to their carriage in London, Sara tells her father that Emily was waiting for her at the store. But,for both versions, there is no store scene. The two versions were edited in many scenes during the entire presentation. When Sara first arrives at the school, the first meeting with Miss Minchin is cut short on the VHS version. Sara's first appearance in the classroom is edited heavily in the VHS version. The DVD version provides a glimpse of the students before she enters. There are many scenes that were either cut short or lengthened between the two versions.

This series has a few similarities with "Little Dorrit". This story progresses from riches to rags and back to riches while "Little Dorrit" goes from rags to riches and back to rags. In both stories, the main heroine loses her father. And the title of both stories has the word "Little" in it.

[–] alien777 11 years ago

This series has a few similarities with "Little Dorrit"

U no, the overall 'atmosphere' of the two films are also rather similar, don't u think?
And wouldn't young Amelia Shankley have made a nice and charming Amy Dorrit? :-)

But,for both versions, there is no store scene.

I also tend to think that that scene must've featured in an older version - the 1972 one, most likely - even though, like yourself, I have, unfortunately, never seen it.

Sara's first appearance in the classroom is edited heavily in the VHS version. The DVD version provides a glimpse of the students before she enters

Couldn't u elaborate a little? I've got both editions, and they both do provide a 'glimpse of the students' (even though it is a few sec shorter in the VHS edition) with heavy emphasis laid on Jessie and Lavinia discussing Sara before she actually enters the school-room. Or r u actually talking about a different scene?

My heartfelt thanks for your detailed comments and comparison of the two editions. :-) I'm a fan of this film too, and it aches my heart to find, again and again, that BOTH are somewhat 'crippled'.
My, wouldn't I like to see the COMPLETE version!

[–] CCsito 11 years ago

I did not mean to take the comparison of "Little Dorrit" to "A Little Princess" that far. The themes of both are quite different. When I said, few, I meant that, a very small number.

Actually, I think that Winona Ryder (because of her size) might make a good Amy Dorrit, but she is too old now.

The 1972 TV version may have had a store scene, but cannot locate a copy of this program. I am pretty sure it was not in the Shirley Temple version.

My three VHS tape version (Wonderworks) has the scene go straight from Sara waving goodbye to her father at the window to Miss Minchin calling the classroom to order. The scene where the students are talking amongst themselves before Miss Minchin and Sara enter the classroom is not on my VHS tape version. The particular scene as Sara walks into the classroom for the first time (using the first person point of view) is not on my VHS tape version. Those scenes are seen on the DVD version. Perhaps there are multiple edited versions of the VHS tape versions? Did you know that some VHS tape version has the words "My Lord" and "slut" edited out (the Feature Films for Families edition)?

Yes, both versions are edited to fit the time slot for the program on PBS and London Weekend Television. It also appears that some scenes were shot from different angles, so there was duplication of some shots. I saw the scene when Sara exclaims "A Diamond Mine?!" shot from the side (with both her and her father) as well a closeup of Sara only. It appears that several scenes were either reshot or used mutliple cameras to shoot the scene.

[–] alien777 11 years ago

Perhaps there are multiple edited versions of the VHS tape versions?

This does seem to be the case. Kind of frustrating, isn't it?
Btw, is the VHS version ur talking about really that - VHS tapes? Or ready-made computer files from the tapes?
Because the Wonderworks version I'm talking about are the files I was lucky enough to find on the web once. I could post the links, if ur interested?

Did you know that some VHS tape version has the words "My Lord" and "slut" edited out (the Feature Films for Families edition)?

Yes, I saw this mentioned in some of the threads here. But, frankly speaking, these omissions failed to catch my attention when first watching that edition. :-) These changes are really minor.
And the 'censors' do have a point, actually. There were no 'Lords' or 'sluts' in the original book, in the first place. :-) They were added by the script-writers. Somewhat risque of them, I should say, this being a children's film, after all.
So the 'censors' just kind of set it back, closer to the original story, so to speak.
The only issue I have with this particular instance of 'censorship' is that it required overdubbing - and there wasn't half as much emotion in the overdubbed dialogue as there was in the original version.

It also appears that some scenes were shot from different angles, so there was duplication of some shots. I saw the scene when Sara exclaims "A Diamond Mine?!" shot from the side (with both her and her father) as well a closeup of Sara only. It appears that several scenes were either reshot or used mutliple cameras to shoot the scene.

Yes, thank u for mentioning this in another thread. I checked that scene out - and later found out that it wasn't the only one. :-) There're quite a few of them there.
I think this is due to using multiple cameras - it was obvious that several cameras were used in most scenes, because the angle often changed.

[–] CCsito 11 years ago

My three VHS tape is from an original box set. It is not a copy from an online source of any kind. It was originally sold back in the late 1980s (the box is quite worn). The front cover shows Sara holding Emily. I bought it from someone on Amazon. Each of the three tapes begin with the Wonderworks series promotions and has a trailer to another Wonderworks series with Bridget Fonda. So it appears to come from a TV presentation recording. There also appears to be 1, 2, and 3 cassette versions of this series which have the show recorded at different taped speeds. My 3 tape version is shown in SP mode.

If the classroom scene of your USA version has the one on the DVD, then I do not understand why it would have been removed from my tape version?

Well, scriptwriters get to pick and choose how a scene is shot and what is in it. In the novel, Sara's father stays around with her when she arrives at the school for the first time and goes shopping with her to the store to buy Emily. It is not as abrupt as it is shown on the TV show.

The several angle shots of the series makes it appear that multiple camera persons were at work filming the series. Then it would be up to the film editor to decide what gets saved and what gets discarded from the final program. But, that is common with any film or TV show.

[–] CCsito 11 years ago

The other Wonderworks series trailer is for "Jacob Have I Loved" with Bridget Fonda from 1989. So my three VHS tape set dates from that time period. The box set has the distributor of "Public Media Video" on the cover and lists Wonderworks Family Video series.

[–] CCsito 11 years ago

I also purchased a two cassette version of the Wonderworks PBS video and it is different than the three cassette version. There are scenes from the DVD on the two cassette version and it seems to have some of the editing into shorter scenes like the DVD version unlike the three cassette version (like when Donald first goes to visit Carrisford). It looks like four different film editors created the versions that I own. I have multiple TVs and VHS/DVD players and would have to play all four versions simulataneously to determine where the edits were done for each one. Really baffling why they produced so many versions.

[–] alien777 11 years ago

I believe the version I have available is based on the 2-cassette version, consisting of 2 files, the first part twice as long as the second (In the UK 'units' they would cover parts 1-4 and 5-6, respectively).
It is the 'censored' version, with no 'sluts' of any kind, nor any phrases where God's name is used explicitly.
But I made a mistake saying that Lav and Jessie's discussion of Sara was shorter there than in the UK edition. It is actually LONGER. :-) Their UK exchange sounds like a 'concise' version of their dialogue in the US edition, with about half the words missing.

Does ur 3-cassette version feature the illustrative artwork at the beginning of each part?
The 2-cassette one I describe does.
On the whole, I liked the 6-part splitting better than the 2- or 3-part US versions. I do miss the artwork, and the 'pauses' were placed very skilfully, at quite the right moments, I think.

[–] CCsito 11 years ago

The censored version is the "Feature Films for Family" video series. I have a copy of the second tape of a 2-part tape set of the series besides the three cassette set. That cassette does blot out the 'slut' and 'my lord' dialogue.

On my PBS USA version, the initial entrance of Sara into the classroom for the first time is cut out (only on the three cassette version). She is already seated right after the departure of her father scene. The DVD version has an extended scene before her entrance with the children talking about her. The two VHS cassette version has contains this extended scene.

If you are referring to the art drawings at the start of each episode, they appear only at the beginning of each 3 USA PBS episode version that I have (3 cassette version). My VHS three tape version has the Wonderworks opening (the hot air balloon), the PBS station logo opening, and the trailer promos for the "Jacob have I Loved" series at the beginning of each cassette. Since the USA version merged several of the LWT episodes, you don't get to see the artwork of each episode as it was intended to be shown for all six episodes. The two VHS cassette version (with the "Chronicles of Narina" trailer) merged Part 1 and 2 together for some reason. So the credits are played just once for Part 1 and 2. So for my sets, the DVD shows the opening credits artwork for all six episodes. It shows it for each 3 parts of the 3 cassette set, but it is shown just two times for the two cassette set since Part 1 and 2 were merged together.

The format of the show in 6 parts was better, in my opinion. By merging it to 2 or 3 parts, the episode pauses are missing for the viewer. In the USA version, a "big moment" that should end an episode continues on without interruption.

I preferred the DVD (LWT) version in 6 episodes over the USA Wonderworks version because of a couple of plot holes seen in the tape version (even though the overall run time is longer). Does your VHS version have the abrupt scene change from the Carmichael meal scene to Becky crying while walking up the stairs (without the letter reading scene by Ermengarde in the classroom)? And does it have just the carriage scene with the three poor boys asking for alms from Sara and her father (VHS two and three tape versions) and/or the conversation scenes regarding the Emily doll with her father in India and in the carriage (DVD and VHS two tape version)? My two VHS cassette version does have the Emily doll discussion scenes just like the DVD, but not the Ermengarde letter reading scene which is only on the DVD. The DVD version appears to have a longer beginning and ending scenes than the VHS tape versions. In the DVD opening, Carrisford is seen approaching the Crewe residence after the credits have ended. And the Carrisford and Sara departure from the bakery scene at the end is longer on the DVD. Besides the additional artwork that is shown on each of the DVD six episodes which was very nice, I felt the VHS version took away from the final comeuppance scenes for Lavinia and Miss Minchin. And I thought that the baker's wife's last spoken line summed up the gist of the story (DVD only).

[–] CCsito 11 years ago

Having just viewed a two cassette version, now I wonder why so many people have seen different scenes from their version and whether the Wonderworks program version shown on TV matched any of those on the VHS tapes. The three cassette version that I have has a trailer for the "Jacob have I loved" and "Sweet 15" series at the beginning of each cassette. The two cassette version has a "Chronicles of Narnia - The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe" trailer at the beginning of the first cassette only. Also, since the first two parts are recorded into one cassette, it appears that they show the ending credits TWICE at the end of the first cassette (one for the end of Part 1 and the other for Part 2). There is no actual "end" to Part 1 on my two cassette version, it continues right into Part 2 and finishes nearly two hours run time. Part 3 is on a cassette by itself. There are some "new" scenes and shortened scenes on my two cassette version that match the DVD version and not the three cassette version. The two cassette version does have the scene where the girls at the school are running around the classroom and talking before Sara comes in on her first day. It also has her talking about the Emily doll in India and also while traveling in the carriage with her father just like in the DVD version. But, it does not have the Ermengarde letter reading scene that occurs after Carrisford finds out who she is and the final confrontation scene when Miss Minchin goes to bring her back to the school is abbreviated just as in the three cassette version. So, it looks like your viewing experience will vary depending on which version you purchased since the VHS tape sets are not exactly the same.

[–] alien777 11 years ago

A small correction on my part.
I've been watching the series again :-) (OK I love this film, so what? My humble opinion is that it's no less than a classic. It's a mystery to me why it is not widely known) - and found out that in my US version all the 'Lord's are actually left intact, after all - it's only the 'God's that are indeed missing. :-) Like the (totally innocuous, IMO) phrase 'God bless you!' :-)
Is this the case with your version? Or did the 'Lord's fall victim to unbridled censorship too, in your case?

[–] CCsito 11 years ago

The DVD version also has a acene not shown on any of my tape versions. It is the discussion between Mr. and Mrs. Carmichael just before he goes to Russia. He tells her that the Indian woman who was with Sara in India disappeared which made it harder to find out what happened to her. The DVD also is a bit longer at the very start of the series with Carrisford pausing in front of the Crewe house and Sara and Anna talking about the books before they fight over them.

I don't believe this series was shown again after the late 1980s on PBS unlike Anne of Green Gables. People probably are most familiar with the Shirley Temple movie version.

The two (2) VHS tape sets and (3) VHS set that I have (not the Feature Films for Families version) also have the "good Lord" phrase spoken by Mr. Carmichael and Lavinia and "idle slut" spoken by Miss Minchin. My Feature Films for Families tape version (Part 2) has those spoken words cut out for those scenes.

When Ralph Crewe was dying, his last words were "may God bless her" (his daughter). I believe all of my versions have that (but since he spoke in a whisper you could not be absolutely sure), but I don't have Part 1 of the Feature Films for Families version to know if it got deleted. Becky does use the word when she says that "God does not have a wife" and the discussion between Carrisford and Ralph Crewe about the Kali Hindu God statue. Carrisford and Donald also talk about the statue when he comes to the house for the first time. The DVD also has a shot of the statue (not seen on the VHS versions) when it is revealed that he is the stranger who purchased the home next to the school as he is pouring himself a drink right after the doctor leaves.

[–] alien777 11 years ago

The censorship was presumably Christian-themed, so it's not surprising that pagan gods (spelt with a small 'g') and goddesses are mentioned freely. It's the Christian God's name that shouldn't be 'used in vain', according to the Bible.
The phrase "May God watch ..." (over her) as uttered by Sara's father is a case of 'permitted usage' since it's meant literally.
But when Cook said, flippantly, "God bless you!" to Sara while assigning her her first task (of scrubbing the floors) - that was a classical case of 'using God's name in vain'. That's why it was taken out.
Is it present in your (numerous :-) ) US editions?

As for the 'Lord's, none of them seem to be missing in my US edition.
Are they, in yours?

Speaking of 'slut's, I've just found out that the first instance (UK Part 1) of it (Cook asking "where have you been, you little slut?!) was censored (left out completely, in re-dubbing), but Miss Minchin saying "she's an idle slut", to give weight to her decision not to increase their Christmas gift to Becky (UK Part 4), was left intact, for some reason, in my version.

(I'm thinking of simply PM'ing you the links to the files I'm talking about - it should save us both a lot of time and trouble, and you'll be able to compare them for yourself, which versions they are exactly.)

We should probably start a dedicated thread providing a sort of 'comprehensive comparison' of the two editions - a more detailed and orderly take on the differences between the two - because the matter does seem complicated, with all those innumerable 'versions' and 'editions' out there. :-)

[–] CCsito 11 years ago

With the so many versions and film editing done, it seems that you need multiple TVs with VHS/DVD players to stop and compare each scene. I have the DVD, three complete VHS sets, and one Part 2 VHS tape which means that I need to simultaneously play 5 TVs at the same time to do a proper comparison. Actually, I do have over five DVD players and four VHS players and at least 5 HDTVs and four tube sets (with converter boxes). But for me to line them all up and get it all wired may require finding a large enough open space to review them all.

Not sure about the Cook scene with her saying "God Bless You". "Good Lord" is only missing on the Feature Films of Families VHS version.

The other thing that even confuses the numerous edits is the scene where Sara exclaims "A Diamond mine?!" shot from different angles. You wonder if other scenes were shot in another fashion and never made it to these edited versions.

I noticed that some of these releases are from companies based at Utah. You wonder if the Mormons had something to do with the editing?

[–] alien777 11 years ago

Oh, to get my hands on the raw material! :-)
I'd've made my own 'master' version, or whatever they call it.
Because there're all indications that BOTH the UK and US editions miss LOTS.

Take the episode when Sara finally re-appears in the school-room after her prolonged 'banishment', for instance.
In the UK version, she says something like "it's magic!" - and we see Lavinia rolling her eyes, in contempt.
But in the US version, Sara elaborates quite a bit after the 'magic' phrase - and we don't see Lavinia rolling her eyes!

You start wondering what on earth the original 'director's cut' actually was. Gosh, wouldn't I like to see it!

[–] CCsito 11 years ago

Someone named Clayton Parker was the PBS TV version editor for Wonderworks. Not sure who is listed for the UK LWT version.

The UK DVD version when Sara shows up with her new clothes in the classroom is abbreviated a lot and jumps from her saying, "it's the magic" to Miss Minchin entering the classroom. The PBS VHS version has Lottie saying "magic Mama?" and there is a discussion between Lottie and Sara about who could be her benefactor.

The UK version has an abbreviated party scene with Sara and the Carmichaels and seems to omit the "friends are worth more than diamonds" words, while it appears on the PBS VHS versions. But, the UK version has the Ermengarde letter reading scene and the student commotion about Miss Amelia leaving the school which is not on any of the PBS VHS versions. I think the original full filmed version was never shown and left to film editors to cut and splice as they saw fit to make it conform to broadcast time restrictions.

The following is an excerpt from the producer, Colin Shindler, of the series. A small brochure was included in one of the sealed VHS tape set that I bought a month ago with the following behind the scene commentary. It is included in the Bonneville Worldwide Entertainment VHS tape version.

The most crucial, and in many ways the most difficult, task we had in producing "A Little Princess" was casting the main part of Sara. We were delighted to find Amelia Shankley, who seemed to us to be absolutely right for the pretty, solemn, withdrawn child that Sara is described to be in the book. There was only one problem. Although Amelia wanted the role, she didn't want to be treated like an 11 year old (the age of Sara).

She kept reminding us that she was 14, "nearly 15". And indeed, she was more of a teenager than an 11 year old. She was rather more interested in pop music and fashion than most Victorian heiresses. During rehearsals, she had to have her walkman almost surgically removed from her ears before she could start acting. Though she was delighted to wear the pretty clothes that were designed for her to wear at the start and end of the production, she was a little disappointed to be an 11 year old "skivvy" for most of the time. She couldn't wait to get her jeans on at the end of the day!

Maureen Lipman, who plays the evil Miss Minchin, is one of England's most famous comic actresses. Every morning during production, she and Miriam Margolyes (Miss Amelia) would go through their repertoire of comic routines leaving the now de-earphoned Amelia in stitches and equally unable to rehearse.

It was, you will have gathered, a very happy production.

[–] alien777 11 years ago

Thank you very much. :-)

she was a little disappointed to be an 11 year old "skivvy" for most of the time.

my favourite parts :-)

We were delighted to find Amelia Shankley, who seemed to us to be absolutely right for the pretty, solemn, withdrawn child that Sara is described to be in the book.

except "pretty". :-) She wasn't, in the book. But in all other respects she did conform to the book description.

Why do we have to literally 'scavenge' for any bits of information on this masterpiece? I'm sure there was so much more to it.
The acting of both the child and grown-up actors was top-notch - they were not acting, they were living their roles.
Is karma to blame again? :-)

[–] CCsito 11 years ago

I replayed the part where Sara goes to the kitchen to clean the floors and the scene when Cook exclaims "Lord bless us. You're not in a doll's kitchen now". All VHS tape versions, except for the Feature Films for Families version, has her saying that. The word "Lord" is blotted out in the Feature Films for Families version. On the DVD, you can hear Cook saying it, but the subtitles only shows "Cook laughs" and the entire sentence is not captioned.

I am getting the complete run times for all of my versions and will need to amend my comments about the 2 and 3 tape VHS versions.

I just came across a German release (May 14, 2012) version that has 2 disks. I am guessing that it has both the German and English audio versions. The run time listed is 156 minutes which may match the USA DVD version. The title of the German DVD is called "Sara - Die kleine Prinzessin". There also was a PAL VHS version released for UK audiences, but our VHS players will not accept that format.

[–] CCsito 11 years ago

I just purchased a copy of the German release of "Sara - A Little Princess" 2 DVD (region 2) set for 11.7 Euros which comes out to a bit over $15 USD. I have a region free DVD and Blu-ray players so I can view any DVD or Blu-ray disk from around the world. Based on the run time, I am pretty sure that it will be the same as the UK (region 1) DVD version. But there are a few photos shown on the item listing that look new (when compared to the DVD and VHS tapes). I will provide any comments after I receive it.

The German DVD version has the same program as the E1 Entertainment DVD version. I also found the Feature Films for Families DVD version on familytv.com. This newer version may be different from the other two since they were based on the UK TV broadcast format. The Feature Films for Families VHS tape versions were based on the PBS Wonderworks broadcast format, so this DVD may be similar to that one.

[–] ForeverLate 7 years ago

Saw this on youtube and several scenes were cut...I also recall a scene where she shops for the doll, as well as a scene at the bakery where the baker woman goes out to the beggar girl and comments on how Sara only took one bun for herself..I noticed a few other cuts as well.