More on Harry Potter


In relation to the other thread that I started:

I read the responses, and in particular that of Paramitch. This inspired me to think more deeply about the connections between HP and YSH.

I decided to write my thoughts up and post them on the web. The posting is too long to put on this board (it's in the style of a UK broadsheet-newspaper article).

Anyone interested can read it at this link:

http://harryholmes.blogspot.com

I'm more convinced than ever of the connection. However, I appreciate that it is difficult to convince others unless they have seen YSH recently themselves. As has often been said, a picture is worth a thousand words.

Any comments welcome (here or there).

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If you haven't seen YSH, or read HP 1-5, be advised that the article summarises the plot of the film, and mentions events in the books. So: spoiler warning!

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I agree completely with you ephraim. I was a big fan of this movie when it first came out in the 1980's and years later while watching Harry Potter movies I felt the similarities were more than obvious. Having watched YSH twice since then there is no doubt at all in my mind. Cracking film overall and definitely one of my all time favourites!

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Thanks for the comment. I know I am not alone in spotting the connection, and I also know it's much more than a retrospective fantasy. Unfortunately, drawing public notice to this fact is surprisingly difficult. If anyone eventually writes a book called "The Origins of Harry Potter" (or similar) about J.K. Rowling's inspirations (e.g. J.R.R. Tolkien, T.H. White, Roald Dahl etc), I want to contribute the killer chapter about YSH!

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Just saw the DVD I bought from Hong Kong! Very coincidently!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/inessalenin/youngsherlockholmes.jpg

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Stumbled across this today, from ign.com (http://filmforce.ign.com/articles/034/034108p1.html). It's titled "Trouble Brewing with Potter Casting?", about the first Potter movie, dated July 11, 2000. Excerpt follows:

"Hirshenson's company has been screening child actors under the guise of casting for a Young Sherlock Holmes film. In actuality, scenes were picked from Chris Columbus' 1985 script for Young Sherlock Holmes, and were distributed to agents around the US, calling for actors with "Harry-like" characteristics.

In fact, scenes from the Holmes script that were selected closely parallel some of the scenes from the Potter story. For instance, a scene was selected where Holmes and Watson first meet. This is an obviously parallel to the scene on the train where Harry and Ron first get to know each other."

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Ooooh, now I find THAT interesting. Certainly that demonstrates Chris Columbus saw the parallels, and may well have used the earlier film as a basis for his HP films. I'd still need further evidence to convince me that the books were influenced by YSH, but it's very nice to know the cinematic similarities are not mere coincidence.

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Considering that when casting was complete, he had given the part of Hermione to a girl called Watson, and the part of Harry to a boy called Radcliffe (the Radcliffe Camera is the heart of Oxford; chunks of YSH were filmed in Radcliffe Square; the publicity shots of Holmes and Watson show them there) I think he was taking the p***.

P.S. Random aside: just realised why Elizabeth in YSH has a surname of Hardy - it's a homage to the Hardy Boys detective stories.

P.P.S. More support for my Hogwarts-is-Oxford sub-theory (partly because HP draws on YSH, partly because JK didn't get in) - Professor Slughorn, in the latest book, seems to be based on a famous Oxford Don, Francis Fortescue Urquhart, nickname "Sligger". In a piece of detective work worthy of Holmes (which I read on the net, but cannot now find the page) someone spotted that J.K. Rowling has a well-thumbed copy of "The Brideshead Generation", by Humphrey Carpenter, on her bookshelf, in this photo:

http://www.mediarodzina.com.pl/nowa/images/media/jk1.jpg

It's the maroon book to the left of her head, and it mentions him in detail, in addition to various Oxford characters and Mitfords (Rowling's real-life heroines).

P.P.P.S. Looking at the photo again, I note that on the right, next to the yellow Freud book, are a couple of Agatha Christie novels. What was I saying about the names Lestrange, Lucius and Griselda?

P.P.P.P.S. If you want to get weird, above her head, on the top shelf, are the words "Holmes, Oxford" on a book...
but I think that might just be an old edition of this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0198662092/qid=1137970856/sr=1-48/ref=sr_1_2_48/026-3449535-3414838

(The Oxford Companion to Military History, Richard Holmes Editor).

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Actually, I found something additional the other day that may be of interest to you. I'm afraid I don't have it to hand right now, but it was a copy of the December 2001 UK edition of the Film Review magazine. This was a 'fantasy special' (primarily as Fellowship of the Ring was just being released), and had a general focus on fantasy cinema throughout.

As a Harry Potter film was also coming out at this time, the magazine includes an interview with Chris Colombus, in which he specifically cites Young Sherlock Holmes as being one of the reasons he was interested in making a Harry Potter film - he felt it was bringing him back to where he'd started off. I'll try and reproduce the full quote for you sometime.

He doesn't, I'm afraid, suggest at any point that the influences may have worked in the other direction. Mind you, just supposing your belief is correct that's certainly not disproved by Colombus' failure to be egotistical in this instance!

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Thanks. I think I know the stuff you are talking about - where he says that he loves England / the UK, how he wanted to come back, and how he had practice of a story set in a gothic British school environment. But please reproduce away.

I'm thinking of doing some digging into anything I can find about the circumstances of Columbus' appointment to the job. Remember the stuff about J.K. vetoing Spielberg, when she came out and said it was all media speculation? To be honest, I'm still pretty much convinced that my original hunches are spot on:

J.K. was in a bad way financially, she knew she wanted to write something for kids that dealt with her own story interests, but would sell commercially, so consciously or unconsciously she borrowed a number of elements from YSH. It took off in way she could not possibly have foreseen, perhaps even because U.S. publishers looking for a product to push unconsciously recognised the big franchise possibility that had been indirectly retained from YSH. Come movie rights time, Columbus hears about it, does some investigating, and basically says he wants control of it. The alternative is that he launches some kind of challenge, either in the media or in the courts. It's almost certain to fail, if only because Coumbus used characters from Conan Doyle, but that doesn't matter. These kinds of cases are launched in Hollywood all the time. The threat is the damage he can do to the reputation of the property. And what is the damage if he gets what he wants? The studio gets a director who will still probably do a decent job, Chris hits another personal financial jackpot, J.K. avoids accusations of plagiarism. Who loses?

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JKR on Richard & Judy (U.K. chat show) a few days ago:

Richard: I was dodging around the death bit, because I know you can't answer that question, but you know how Conan-Doyle got sick up to there of Sherlock Holmes ...

Jo: Yeah.

Richard: ... so pushed him off the cliff at the Reichenbech falls, I'm not asking if you have done that obviously, but have you ever been tempted to bump him off because it is such a huge thing in your life.

Jo: I've never been tempted to kill him off before the end of book 7. I have always planned seven books and that is where I want to go, where I want to finish on seven books. But I can completely understand the mentality of an author who thinks "well I am going to kill them off because that means there can be no non-author written sequels as they call them, so it will end with me and after I am dead and gone" - they would be able to bring back the character and write a load of ...

Richard: That never stuck me before. I thought it would free you up.

Jo: Agatha Christie did that with Poirot, didn't she, she wanted to finish him off herself.

Interesting that Christie was the authorial example that sprang to her mind here - I'm sure that's where she got some of her naming conventions (not just specifics like Lestrange, but also stylistically e.g. Little Hangleton sounds just like a Marple village). I bet she devoured Agatha's mysteries when she was younger.

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Your links are too obscure to pay any attention to. As well some of them are simply incorrect, Watson, at every point in the movie is a hub of the story, he's the main *beep* character.

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I think you must have skimmed, and mis-read. I specifically say that Ron in HP, just like Holmes in YSH, is not the hub of the tale, and that Watson IS the hub. Hub = a center of activity or interest; a focal point, as in main character.

As for the links being too obscure to pay any attention to, it would appear that Chris Columbus himself was aware of them, whether they were intentional or not. Why else would he talk about YSH as giving him good grounding for making HP? Why did he cast the movie using scenes from YSH? Personally, I don't see the links as being not readily noticeable (one definition of obscure), I think they are blindingly obvious.

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