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'Where Are You Going, Where Have You Been?' Joyce Carol Oates question

posted 19 years ago by 666Night999
15 replies | jump to latest

I just saw the movie "Smooth Talk", which is based on this story by Oates. I haven't read the story, but I've read that the movie and story are different.

movie ***spoilers*** and (story?)

In the movie, Connie(Laura Dern) is preyed upon by Arnold Friend(Treat Williams). He comes to her house when she is alone and talks her into going for a ride with him, and saying he will be her lover. She eventually consents, but they just drive around and he drops her off at her house later on. Apparently no sexual interaction happens. He explains to her, "see, I did what I said I would."

Anyway, I read some reviews of the movie by people who've also read the story. They say it is quite different. So my question is, does Connie get raped and murdered by this Arnold Friend person in the story? The numbers on his car 33,19,17 seem to have significance both biblicallly and addition-wise. The numbers add up to 69, a sexually suggestive number, and someone said something about these numbers being Arnold's age(33), and 19(first victim), and 17(second victim). Then apparently, Connie would be 15(his third victim).

If someone can elaborate a little about this story I'd appreciate it.

Thanks,

"Don't talk to me about endings, dare the beginnings" [Jack Ketchum, 7/69]

[–] philusaf 19 years ago

Well, I'm taking Writing about Literature in college and this story is one we're looking at right now. In the story in our textbooks, the tale ends as Connie is coming out the door to go with Arnold

[–] Useless_Chick_23 19 years ago

I know it's been awhile (December 2004) since you posted on the "Smooth Talk" message board. At that time, you hadn't read the Joyce Carol Oates short story, "Where Are You Going, Where Have You Been?" on which the movie is based.

I don't know if you have since read the story(or even if you have a desire to read it). You can read it online (I recently did) if you'd like. The story comes out to eleven pages (printed out):

www.usfca.edu/fac-staff/southerr/wgoing2.html

"FRA-GEE-LAY ... it must be Italian!"
"I think that says 'fragile', honey."

[–] 19 years ago

[deleted]

[–] carmex 18 years ago

He rapes her in the movie.
He kills her in the story.

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Gilmorian 18 years ago

I also learned that Arnold Friend if you take out the r's in his name you get An Old Fiend.. that portrays him as the sort of the devil, but that's just another view of someone's opinion.

[–] Movie-gal 17 years ago

There was another thing with if you take his initials A. Friend and take out the r it becomes A. Fiend. We talked about that last year in my english 101 class, just something interesting.

remember your unique, just like everyone else!!!

[–] captwinklr 17 years ago

"Friend" in the biblical sense refers to evil, or satan. Also, the black "wig" (not actually a wig, but how the protagonist, Connie, describes Arnolds black hair) is significant in the story. Oates wants you to see it as a wig, a disposable object hiding something; horns, evil, etc. The sunglasses too, she can never see into Arnolds eyes. This man represents evil in every way. I also read a Joyce Carol Oates interview, and she states that Connie was raped and killed. Although, not explicitly stated, this was supposed to be implied. In addition, to comment on the numbers notion, I agree 100%, I took it as his age and his preceding victims, it reveals a pattern, 19-17-15-?.

I hope this helps; in the movie she was raped...in the book she was raped and killed (according to the author). But, there's a reason Oates leaves it open for interpretation. Read the book for yourself and determine whatever you want on your own. That's entirely up to you.

Lastly, I would highly recommend the story. Although, its short, it remains as one of the most powerfully intriguing short stories I have ever read. This and A Good Man Is Hard To Find.

[–] Bince_19 17 years ago

Another implication in the story that Arnold Friend is a representation of the devil is when it describes his feet not going all the way down to the floor, that he was constantly off balance, almost as if his boots were masking devil like hooves. It's interesting because the actual killer Arnold Friend is based on, Charles Schmid, was quite short (5'3'') and was known to pack things into his shoes to give the illusion that he was taller.

"I can only wait for the final amnesia, the one that can erase an entire life." - Luis Buñuel

[–] DisneyFan85 17 years ago

Anothing interesting thing to note... in the story, he drives what Oates contantly refers to as a "jalopy"... and his name is Arnold Friend... each world (jalopy, Arnold, Friend) has 6 letters... 666, the devil...

Not being able to stand correctly is a literary reference to the devil.

Also "An Old Fiend" is a reference to the devil as well.

In the story, it is left open-ended as to whether or not he rapes her, kills her, etc... it is up to the reader to decide.

This is one of my favorite short stories ever... I'm an English major and I absolutely LOVE this story...

"'Symbology'? ... The word I believe you're looking for is 'symbolism'. "

[–] ARH 17 years ago

The story ends with Connie going with him, though not explictly said it's obvious Arnold is going to kill her. He threatens to kill her family so she goes and scrifices herself for them making her first grown-up decision.

"Don't mind him, honey, he's just a creep. He's a dope. Right? I'm the boy for you, and like I said, you come out here nice like a lady and give me your hand, and nobody else gets hurt, I mean, your nice old bald-headed daddy and your mummy and your sister in her high heels. Because listen: why bring them in this?"

"Leave me alone," Connie whispered.

"Hey, you know that old woman down the road, the one with the chickens and stuff—you know her?"

"She's dead!"

"Dead? What? You know her?" Arnold Friend said.

"She's dead—"

"Don't you like her?"

"She's dead—she's—she isn't here any more—"

But don't you like her, I mean, you got something against her? Some grudge or something?" Then his voice dipped as if he were conscious of a rudeness. He touched the sunglasses perched up on top of his head as if to make sure they were still there. "Now, you be a good girl."

'What are you going to do?"

"Just two things, or maybe three," Arnold Friend said. "But I promise it won't last long and you'll like me the way you get to like people you're close to. You will. It's all over for you here, so come on out. You don't want your people in any trouble, do you?"

[–] springwater16 15 years ago

ARH, I've never thought of it like that before but I'm not sure her actions were to be seen as a self sacrifice. I always thought she went with him because she knew she was going to die and did not care either way because she hated her life.

..."Connie's mother kept picking at her until Connie wished her mother was dead and she herself was dead and it was all over."

[–] ARH 14 years ago

I know that this is an old thread, but when he threatens her family (when he describes the picic) she is very concerned for them.

[–] lazarillo 10 years ago

The story is very complex and ambiguous. It is considered one of the great 20th century American short stories and really operates on many levels--metaphoric (the Devil imagery), sociocultural (references to Bob Dylan and what was happening in 1966) and literal (it was reportedly inspred by real-life Tucson murderer Charles Schmid).

This movie takes ONE of the more literal interpretations of the story. That doesn't make it bad by any means, but it's important to realize there is a LOT more to the source story than this movie shows.

[–] RaVenBlackehart 8 years ago

The short story itself is based upon a real series of crime. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Schmid