Mr. Grey (a caucasion male) plays the kung fu master Korean. (A fine acting job by the way)
Could you imagine the reaction from the 'politcal correct police' today if Hollywood did this?
Was this one of the last movies that did this? Can anyone think of a newer movie where one race portrade another?
Probably the best make-up job ever. I never suspected until I saw the name of Mr. Grey on the credits
"This picture of Al Dutcher bothers me."
I have a feeling the reaction would be no different whether it's in 1985 or two thousand whatever. It's goofy any time.
I think it's time to let the "politically correct" thing go. The only people who ever talk about being politically correct are conservatives. It's a complete straw man.
Get on up.
Well an obvious recent example is where they made Robert Downey Jr. doing a blackface in Tropic Thunder. I think blackface would definitely no longer be accepted in a serious movie anymore these days. Personally I found White Chicks to be just as offensive even if that was a comedy too. Or how about Mike Myers playing an Indian person in The Love Guru? Once again a comedy. That seems to be the only area where it is still wildly accepted, even though the end result is often not very funny and rather offensive.
I personally don't have a problem with it as long as actually brings something to the table. The problem why it is wrong in most cases is that you could just as easily find a person of that actual race that is a good actor or actress. I don't think it has much to do with political correctness. Portraying somebody from another race in a serious setting has always been kind of silly, just as thespians in Victorian ages were all male and played both the female and male roles. It's just silly.
One last thing: the make up job in this movie is truly spectacular. If I didn't know the actor and didn't read the trivia before watching the movie, they would definitely have fooled me. I don't know to which movie it lost for best make-up Oscar, but it better be something even more spectacular. This is one of the best racial make-up changes I've ever seen, if not the best.
You hit it on the nose, at least hire an Asian actor. Also, it can be argued whether or not the character was in good taste - in my opinion, it was not. The character was basically a caricature, a joke portraying Asians as unable to speak correct English and dressing funny.
shareIt's not about race but rather about money. People don't like seeing Asian men onscreen. A white guy decked out to look Asian actually would do better in the box office than a real Asian guy. Well I guess it is about race.
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People don't like seeing Asian men onscreen? I guess that's why Bruce Lee was such a nobody. I guess that's why Jackie Chan and Jet Li have never made any money in the US. I guess Toshiro Mifune and Mako never did any worthwhile work anywhere but in Japan.
Seriously, this is an asinine comment. Some people are just way too stuck on race.
I personally never understood why they cast Joel Grey. Don't get me wrong, he did an outstanding job, but makeup costs money, and films have budgets. Why hire him, when an Asian actor could have done the job with no makeup. The aforementioned Mako is just one actor who could have done the job then, and done it very well. But maybe the film makers saw some particular quality in Grey that they thought was uniquely suited to the character. I never understood why Tim Burton wanted Michael Keaton for Batman, when Keaton was almost as far from the physical match for Bruce Wayne as an actor could get (too short, too thin, not athletic, not handsome enough, balding, etc.), but Burton always said he thought that half-crazy persona of Keaton's was uniquely suited to play a guy who dresses up like a bat and fights crime -- such a guy being a little crazy, after all. In other words, Keaton, according to Burton, brought something to the character that no other actor would have. I can respect that sort of casting choice, even if I don't entirely agree with it. It's possible that someone thought the same about Joel Grey for this role. Everything doesn't have to be about race. If you think it does, then I'd respectfully suggest you're a lot more hung up about the issue than everyone else is, or rather, the way you think they are.
You're still not seeing the big picture. The number of Asian actors are heavily outnumbered by every race out there. How often do you see a leading Asian actor/actress in a movie or show? Any over the summer? Jackie Chan and Jet Li had to be big over in Asia before they could get a chance here in the US. How about the Asian man starting at the bottom here? Or lucky enough to get a starting role to start?
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Hellooooo... Jackie Chan and Jet Li are CHINESE. Not Chinese-American, CHINESE. OF COURSE they got famous over there first!!!
Even Bruce Lee, who was Chinese-American, and still had to go back to Hong Kong to hit the big time became a big star proves my point. Because while in his day it was indeed difficult for a non-white to get leading roles, he still did it, in the end. This proves two things: 1) it was quite possible for an Asian, so long as he had the requisite star power, to become a big star and a leading man, and 2) just because the producers and money men who bankroll the pictures think a non-white might not be acceptable to audiences, doesn't mean that audiences agree. The fact that he became one of the biggest stars in the world, just before he died, proves audiences were ENTIRELY prepared to accept an Asian in a starring role, provided he had star quality, which Lee did, in spades. In any case, that was the 1960s and early '70s. Things have changed a lot since then.
And you do realize that Whites make up a majority of the population right? So why is it any kind of surprise or conspiracy to you that they make up the majority of actors? You also realize that Jews are heavily OVER-represented in the entertainment industry. I suppose that means the Jews are secretly running things after all?
Seriously dude, it's NOT all about race. Some people really aren't that hung up on it. Get over it.
You're clueless. I've actually seen a documentary of it on PBS. There are more Whites than Asians but there are more Asian doctors and pharmacists than there are actors proportionally.
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No, actually you're the one whose clueless. There never has been a society anywhere where the different ethnicities in a given population were distributed in all the professions, in the same proportion as their numbers in that society. Certain profession get dominated by certain groups. This happens in every county, on every continent, in every period of history. Ethic Germans once comprised an intellectual and financial elite throughout eastern Europe. Indians filled most of the clerical and administrative positions in British colonies in Africa, instead of native Africans. Malaysians of Chinese descent formed an intellectual and financial elite in Malaysia, and so forth, and so on.
You automatically ASSUME that if there are relatively few Asian actors, it must mean there's some sort of racist conspiracy to keep them off the screen. So I guess that means that there's a conspiracy to put more Jews up on it, since Jews are so disproportionately represented in the entertainment industry. And there must be a conspiracy to keep white people out of the NBA, since the vast majority of the players are black. And I guess there's a conspiracy among Indians (east Indians that is, not the native American kind) to drive non-Indians out of the hotel business, since half the hotel owners in America these days seem to be named Patel.
If there are more Asian doctors than actors, it simply means that more Asians are going to study medicine than acting. And why shouldn't there be? Asians, as a demographic, tend to be high academic achievers (maybe they are conspiring to keep everyone else less educated!), and for such a high achiever, it makes a lot more sense to study medicine, where a lucrative career is practically assured if you can keep up academically, than acting, which is a very uncertain profession - one where you may bust your ass waiting tables or whatever for year after year, going to audition after audition and competing with hundreds of other actors for one single part. This is a profession where only a comparative handful succeed in making it big, most just get by living on meager salaries, getting small parts here and there. In medicine, on the other hand, a high salary and relatively luxurious standard of living is practically guaranteed to a smart doctor. So gee whiz, what a mystery it is that more Asians would study medicine than drama!
You don't know that there is conspiracy in Hollywood to make money? And that it's very stereotypical? It is what it is. Americans, Europeans and any place besides Asia don't like to see Asians onscreen especially men. So less viewership means less rating and less money generated. Has there been any Asian only drama show, sitcom or rock bands in the States? Dont bring up Psy. More Asian doctors, pharmacists, engineers, programmers and all. More than proportionally.
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"You don't know that there is conspiracy in Hollywood to make money?"
What is "conspiratorial" about the desire to make money? Everyone, in every business wants that.
"And that it's very stereotypical?"
It has been. Last time I checked though, Will Smith, a black man, was one of the biggest, most bankable stars working in the industry these days. Numerous Asian actors have had very, very lucrative careers as well. Jet Li and Jackie Chan were brought over from China precisely because of their ability to fill theater seats. Today you've got steady-working Asian male and female actors like Maggie Q, Ziyi Zhang (another Chinese import), John Cho, Daniel Dae Kim, Grace Park, Kelly Hu, B.D. Wong, Ken Watanabe, etc. etc. Tell me, how are all these actors and actresses finding work if there is some kind of conspiracy to keep Asians off the screen?
"Americans, Europeans and any place besides Asia don't like to see Asians onscreen especially men."
I've seen you assert this. I've yet to see ANY evidence for it. And you handwave away the existence of scores of Asian actors to make the assertion. Just three years BEFORE the movie we are discussing here, someone cast Mako in "Conan the Barbarian." The same Mako who'd been working as an actor in Hollywood since the '60s. I guess someone forgot to tell John Milius he wasn't supposed to hire any damn dirty Asians.
"So less viewership means less rating and less money generated."
Which is why Jackie Chan loses money at the box office and all his movies tank. That's why Bruce Lee was arguably the biggest and most up-and-coming movie star in the world at the time of his tragically early death.
"Has there been any Asian only drama show, sitcom or rock bands in the States?"
Where is your evidence that this is as a result of deliberate influence?
"Dont start bring up Psy. More Asian doctors, pharmacists, engineers, programmers and all. More than proportionally."
Since you seemed to miss it the first time, I'll say it again. Ethnic groups are not, repeat NOT, evenly distributed throughout every profession. They never have been, anywhere in the world. You ignored examples I provided earlier. I'll repeat them as well. Why are blacks proportionately VASTLY overrepresented in the NBA (and other sports)? Why are Jews proportionately overrepresented in the entertainment industry (and the garment industry, and the jewelry trade, and others)?
As Thomas Sowell said "The unstated -- and unsubstantiated -- assumption of the racial bean counters is that different groups would be proportionally represented everywhere, in the absence of discrimination. In reality, you cannot find any such proportional representation anywhere in the world, except where there are quotas imposed by government."
For all kinds of reason -- tradition, culture, education, family, et al. -- every career field on earth, INCLUDING ACTING, tends to draw disproportionately more, or disproportionately less of this ethic group or that one. Any objective study will confirm this is true all over the world, and all across history. Give me one rational explanation, backed by evidence, that acting should be any different. You are making assumptions, and you are ignoring evidence which tends to contradict it. This is not rational.
So nice that you included Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, Jet Li, Kelly Hu, Daniel Dae Kim, Ziyi Zhang, Watanabe and others. I wonder what they have in common. How many non-action or non-martial arts movies and shows did they appear in the US? So US, Europe, Australia, South America, Middle East and anywhere besides Asia is going to watch a plain ordinary drama with an Asian lead or has all Asians. Get real dude.
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How many non action or martial arts movies did Arnold Schwarzenegger or Sylvester Stallone or Jason Statham or Jean Claude Van Damme star in? What's your excuse for that, since it can't be racism.
Daniel Dae Kim was a regular on "Lost." Last time I checked, that wasn't a martial arts movie, and I didn't notice his character being portrayed as a negative racial stereotype. Ken Watanabe was one of the leads in "The Last Samurai" -- in fact he was the title character -- and that wasn't a martial arts movie either. But your right, that must have been racist. How else could you possibly explain casting a Japanese actor in a movie set in Japan? For that matter, how do you explain "The Last Samurai" at all? If western audiences don't want to see Asians on the screen, what on earth would motivate them to make an ENTIRE MOVIE about Japanese people?
Get real? Are you kidding me? Akira Kurosawa is considered a film maker of the same genius as Stanley Kubrick or Alfred Hitchcock or John Ford, and he is regarded as such in the West as well as in Japan. His films are considered masterpieces and many Westerners watch and revere them. "The Seven Samurai" has a 100% rating from critics and a 96% rating from audiences on Rotten Tomatoes. Yes, clearly Western audiences hate Asians and won't watch movies with or about them.
You're in denial. Arnold and Sly did many comedies and drama. More so than the Asians you mentioned. Statham likes his action movies so he keeps doing them. Van Damme has his own problems so he can only do low budget action now. But the point you obviously missed is that Asians can't get a break because Americans don't like see Asian men on the screen. A few Asian actors here and there aren't enough. So until I see more than a few an A list or B list Asian actor/actresses, but especially actors, in a variety of roles, then I will see as such.
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"You're in denial. Arnold and Sly did many comedies and drama. More so than the Asians you mentioned.
Really? And Jackie Chan isn't famous for comedy? Now who's in denial?
"Statham likes his action movies so he keeps doing them. Van Damme has his own problems so he can only do low budget action now. But the point you obviously missed is that Asians can't get a break because Americans don't like see Asian men on the screen."
*beep* *beep* If American's don't like seeing Asian men on screen, THEN WHY DO THEY PAY MONEY TO DO IT!?!?! Why are Jackie Chan's movies GUARANTEED to make money? Why, for the third or maybe even fourth time, was Bruce Lee the biggest and fastest rising star in the world at the time of his death? Why is, on the AMC series "Walking Dead" right now, as I type this, one of the most popular and well-liked characters on the show is a Korean-American played by Steven Yeun, whom the LA Times refers to as "the beating heart of the AMC series" (http://herocomplex.latimes.com/tv/walking-dead-steven-yeuns-glenn-is-beating-heart-of-amc-series/#/0). And, (GASP!) they even have his character in a sexual relationship with a white woman! EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK!!!
There may not be as many Asian stars as white ones, but you have yet to show me ANY convincing evidence that this is so because there is some nefarious conspiracy, or the result of the irredeemably racist nature of whites. The ONLY thing you've got to point to is a lower number of Asian actors, but as I have pointed out, and as you have repeatedly ignored, all professions, at all times and places in history, have been peopled OUT of proportion to the ethic composition of the general population. So far you've totally ignored this, but it's a fact.
Anyway, I think I've wasted as much time with you as I care to. You're obviously hung up on race -- one of those people who sees everything through a racial lens, and therefore sees racism where it isn't in addition to, and perhaps far more than where it is. Ironically, this makes you part of keeping racism alive, not achieving the colorblind society everyone says they want. For my own part, I'm going to take the advice of an old saying: never argue with an idiot; he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
You're hopeless. Jackie Chan incorporates humor into his action movies. They are never just straight up comedies or drama. You keep going back to Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan which is a shame because you need some really big Asian stars to be able to do less than okay in Hollywood. The point is Asians are at the bottom when it comes to Hollywood movies. You think they would choose an Asian man for a neutral ethic role over a white man? You might just need more time in the real world.
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I know I said I was done, and I meant that entirely, and after this I am done. But this comment of yours was simply so asinine I can't pass it by without comment:
"The point is Asians are at the bottom when it comes to Hollywood movies. You think they would choose an Asian man for a neutral ethic role over a white man? You might just need more time in the real world."
The role of "Chiun" is not a "neutral ethnic role" it's A KOREAN. You are essentially arguing that Hollywood is so prejudiced against Asians, and audiences are so prejudiced against them also, that they won't cast an Asian to play an Asian! That may have been true in 1963 when they made "55 Days at Peking" but I've got news for you: it's not 1963 anymore. "55 Days at Peking" was made so long ago that most of the actors who were in it are dead now. It's a different world today.
And in fact, your statement falls apart on another level. Go watch the remake of "Total Recall." In that movie, they case John Cho -- an Asian, in case the last name didn't tip you off -- in the role of Bob McClane, the director of ReKall. That was a role played in the 1990 version by Ray Baker, who was white. It was, as you say, a "neutral ethnic role." And strangely enough, the makers of the 2012 version of "Total Recall" apparently had no problem whatever in casting an Asian actor in the part.
Get over your obsession with race. It's clear the rest of the world isn't so stuck on the issue.
forget you, you need more time to see what's out there, come back then and admit you're wrong, i'll still forgive you
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I heard they were looking to do an asian cooking show on Animal Planet, a play on Gordon Ramsey's success called Kennel Nightmares..
Keep voting for D's and R's America the 1% is counting on you to be their servants.
Christopher Walken portrayed Feng - an Asian crime boss - in Balls of Fury (2007), albeit his make-up wasn't as inconspicuous as Mr. Grey's make-up. I could think of three other examples prior to Remo Williams. One would be the Disney film: One of Our Dinosaurs is Missing (1975). In it, Peter Ustinov portrayed an Asian criminal. Ustinov also portrayed Charlie Chan in Charlie Chan and the Curse of the Dragon Queen (1981). There is also Peter Seller's role as Fu Manchu in The Fiendish Plot of Dr. Fu Manchu (1980).
I am impartial to such casting decisions. In most cases, the characters are merely gimmicks and the films and actors are having fun parodying and exaggerating Asian stereotypes. I don't think such casting are done in bad judgments or taste; nor are they offensive. The characters are not to be taken seriously. (perhaps with the exception of Jim Sturges's Korean role in Cloud Atlas, which is a serious dramatic role but hardly exploitative. Besides, that role was cast on purpose as a self referential joke). You are right in saying that Hollywood and critics have become overly serious and politically correct.
Not a lot of films since Remo Williams have featured such erratic casting.
I thought Joel Grey was very convincing and funny as Chiun. His accent, manner of speech, and demeanor were perfectly modulated and never failed to amuse me. Even though it was a showy role with first-rate and realistic makeup, he played the role straight, with grace, and never pushed it for the effect of easy and cheap laughs. He makes the character wise, human, and likeable.
"...sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.” ~ Cool Hand Luke
Nobody seemed to care about Nacho Libre where a white guy played a Mexican.
shareI loved Joel Grey in this role. I saw no disrespect for Asians in this film. Peter Ustinov as Charlie Chan a few years prior was incredibly bad and disrespectful. Joel Grey didn't want the part unless he could be transformed with makeup. It was an awesome job on the makeup and acting. Hard to believe that's Jennifer Greys dad.
shareThe makeup was fine, but it was obvious to me that it was a non-Korean playing the part. Haven't seen much with Joel Grey, and don't worry too much about whether or not it's racist/politically incorrect... just seemed to me unlikely to fool anyone.
shareMaybe there weren't many Asian actors at that time. Anyway, it's been a common practice in Hollywood to use an actor of the wrong ethnicity. Commonly a caucasian actor is used for a non-caucasian role, but other combinations are done too, like when a hispanic (Andy Garcia) played an Italian in The Untouchables. I'm sure they think their reasons for doing this are good reasons, but it doesn't look right.
shareIt's like Blackface.
There were plenty of other Asian actors at that time.
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