MovieChat Forums > Out of Africa (1985) Discussion > Mixed Feelings after seeing at 16 then 4...

Mixed Feelings after seeing at 16 then 40

posted 14 years ago by WDformerWB
16 replies | jump to latest

Make no mistake. This was *The Movie* that cemented one particular passion in my life when I was very young, when I first saw it at 16: I wanted to travel the world as much as possible, and most of all I wanted to see Africa. Desperately. I didn't really understand the romance between Blixen and Finch-Hatton at the time. I knew it was there, but it seemed elusive, mysterious and tense, and I didn't catch the underlying currents. Hell, who could at 16? I only knew her husband (and why she married him in the first place? so confusing to a 16 year old with limited exposure to purchasing titles through marriage) cheated on her, gave her an STD, she became sterile as a result, and so she took up with the handsome dude played by Redford. It was all so romantic for a 16 year old, really.

Most of all, I remembered the breathtaking cinematography and score. Due to many factors and limitations that kept me from seeing it much in the next 20 years, I don't believe I re-watched it more than 2 or 3 times in the ensuing period from 1985 until now.

What a difference time makes. I still love this movie - can't deny it. Nostalgia alone made me grab a tissue or two at the most memorable scenes from when first seeing it - biplane ride anyone? And I enjoyed for the first time the far more subtle interplay between Blixen and those around her: the embarrassment for her when she tried to act as if the native Kikuyu were "hers". The ironic scene of going into the club bar looking for her soon to be husband, and who "dealt" with her. The understanding ache of her going to her own farm's manager: "Give me work". It was impossible to not appreciate her apparent evolution and realization of the colonial mindset she had participated so fully in, and yet how she wanted to give "her" Kikuyu lands to call their own after she had to leave Africa, even prostrated herself for their sake. Very touching, but still a disappointment in feeling "too little, too late".

In short, I was stunned at how little I had picked up from my first viewings even well into my 20's. Finch Hatton's holier-than-thou attitude towards the colonial europeans, while at the same time being either unforgiveably (for his character) naive, and/or purposefully blind to his part in it all, of how hunting for ivory or guiding safaris as uber-valuable commodoties was going to feed the beast he claimed to fear one on one. The line "I have a father & daughter from Belgium next month - they want 3 of each." I'm paraphrasing - but seemingly that his next tour group wanted 3 each of the big 5 animals dead to take home and have stuffed as trophies. He didn't think that just about every wealthy family in Europe (read: too many) would be all over that times the thousands, and therefore contributing to the destruction of his beloved Africa?

I don't believe the filmmakers were oblivious to this hypocrisy - and yet...And Yet. They made *such* a beautiful film that even these many years later, I still desperately have wanted to see Africa, and through no plans of my own have found myself traveling there with family in October. I won't be taking 3 of each. I won't see the Masaii warriors jogging aross the salt flats of some desolate high plains African desert. I don't know if the cultures and wildlife of pre 19th century Africa will survive the colonial, cultural and tourist assaults of the 20th and 21st centuries. It is a curious and uncomfortable feeling - to wonder if I'm yet another Finch Hatton, betraying the spirit of a conscience that I slowly became aware of many years after seeing OOA. I want to see Africa. But I don't want to destroy what's left of it. How to do?

[–] gnolti 14 years ago

Thanks for your thoughts and reflections. Although I was only slightly too young to have been interested in this film when it was released, it has grown on me in a serious way.

I have also been puzzled by the seeming contradiction of Finch-Hatton's penchant for hunting and his proto-conservationism/environmentalism. But you have to remember that there was no monolithic creed for conservationists back then, unlike today, when any self-respecting nature lover carries a list of all the do's and dont's in his head. Teddy Roosevelt was the prototype: The man who invented the National Park Service and remains a hero to American environmentalists to this day helped to decimate the wildlife population of several continents. And probably the reason Bror Blixen's friend Ernest Hemingway never called himself an environmentalist is because the word (and concept) did not exist; but he too killed lots of African species.

Basically, the Finch-Hatton type would not have seen a contradiction. They clearly loved the outdoors, and even animals. I think that had they lived to see studies of the impact their sport was having on the ecosystem, they would have retired their guns. But people just didn't have a holistic picture of things back then.

There, daddy, do I get a gold star?

[–] charmerkd 10 years ago

ditto as you said!!!

[–] Tjcat 14 years ago

Hey, WDformerWD.
Enjoyed your comments immensely.
I too thought Finch-Hatton's holier-than-thou attitude towards colonial europeans to be paradoxical.
He objected to the changes that were happening in Kenya, yet he too was accelerating the change by acting as a hunting guide.

In my younger years, I was very sad when Finch Hatton died.
As a mature woman, I realize he was burning like a incredibly bright star, soon to burn out and fade away.
On the other hand...
As for tear filled moments: Karen and Farah at the railway station.
Karen gives Farah Finch Hatton's compass.
Then she then asks Farah to say her name.
The scene reducees me to tears.

The relationship between Farah and Karen was not romantic or sexual, yet it was very intimate.
The respect they had for one another matured throughout the story.
Farah's initial bewilderment with the cookoo clock, arguing about building about pond, arguing about the Kikuyu and very dangerous encounter with the lion.
Farah and Karen had been through flood, fire, disaster and serious illness together.

The mutual respect they shared for one another I found to be far more touching than than Finch Hattons devil may care attitude towards Karen.

[–] 14 years ago

[deleted]

[–] sarahbyrne75 13 years ago

I agree, I first saw this movie in a theatre in a small town in NH when I was much younger and didn't understand all the complex relationships. Then seeing it again at home alone with some good wine during a classic nor'easter as a 30 something year old made me see it in a whole new light.(Have made a point to see it several more times since then..) Not only the most beautiful scenes but the romantic story line and the struggles she goes through. What a courageous woman for her time. One of my favorite lines...when she is facing down the lion and he asks her doesn't that outfit come with a rifle and she responds yes its on the saddle and he responds well you better go it your horse isnt much of a shot...and one of the most sad scenes is when the lion rests on his gravesite as if it knows who he was...so many more

[–] ProfessorFate 12 years ago

Thank you for your thoughtful comments. I too would love to visit Kenya, but this film has placed an idyllic vision of Africa in my head which I doubt reality could live up to.

I first saw the film when I was well into my 20's. It's an epic film that manages to be romantic and intimate. So many wonderful moments: playing Mozart for the apes, the plane ride ("When did you learn to fly?" "Yesterday."), the attacking lions, basically the entire safari sequence, "I thought you should see this. I thought you would understand it.", and of course the graveside scene always tears me up.

However, my favorite scene is when he washes her hair while reciting a poem. Something about that scene that is very sensual.

"Push the button, Max!"

[–] WDformerWB 12 years ago

ProfessorFate, some great comments, thanks. I agree with the way the 'real world' often conflicts with our internal, highly idealized versions - particularly of places we've never visited. I knew I wasn't in the Africa depicted in the movie for a long list of reasons, but I would eagerly go back if given the chance - this time I'd be interested in a more ecologically friendly "roughing it" experience: hire a guide and go on a real walking safari. They still exist, though they're expensive and involve more risk. I doubt I'll ever get the opportunity, but still...who knows what the future holds.

If you get the chance - just go. It will absolutely be different from the idyllic version in your head, but might just surprise you in ways you didn't expect.

The hair washing scene in the movie is now one of my favorites: as a teenager I knew it was supposed to be romantic but it seemed more goofy than "sexy". As an adult, however, that scene has become -- as you put it -- extremely sensual and intimate in a way that my life inexperience as a teen would not allow me to fully appreciate ;-)

[–] juliaz3 11 years ago

How wonderful to read intelligent commentary on this film! I have nothing to add except that it's value now, beyond basic enjoyment of the film itself, is that it does make us think about and discuss these topics.

[–] kaisermom2000 11 years ago

I agree with this whole thread. I was in my early 20's when I first saw this film on the big screen. It's breath-taking scenery with the gorgeous sweeping musical score made my heart take flight (far more then the actual romance between Karin and Dennis)

Going to Africa is on my bucket list. I would research and make sure it was a environmentally friendly safari (photo of course) but I know in my heart that it could never match the scenes delivered on the screen.

I had the pleasure of attending a lecture with Sidney Pollack. During the question an answer portion of the lecture he was asked who was his favorite leading man. He responded Robert Redford. He explained that he loved the complexity of the man who looked so "All American boy next door" and yet always seemed to have a dark edge. I think that this was very well showcased in "Dennis", who was so conflicted in his approach to life and the nature that he seemed to love.

And I do agree that the hair washing scene is one of the most sensual moments on film.

[–] Goodbye_from_Fox_In_A_Box 11 years ago

I first saw this movie when it played on HBO a year after it came out. I was 15/16. I immediately fell in love with it and have watched it several times throughout the years. It IS a movie that changes, depending on your age. At 43, I can understand the Karen/Denys relationship so much clearly. Who hasn't fallen in love with the wrong guy? Denys was just too set in his ways to settle down with her; though he loved her very much, I have to wonder if he had very similar relationships with other women (it is said that he has other women at every stop, or something similar). I'd like to think not, that his love for Karen was true.

Karen was such a tragic figure; her first love didn't love her, she fell in love with his twin (?) brother who gave her syphallus, which rendered her unable to get pregnant, and then she falls for an unobtainable guy, who one way or another was fated to leave her.

It truly was a special movie that I will love for the rest of time.

I do no harm, I keep to myself; there's nothing wrong with my state of mental health.

[–] zolazona 11 years ago

I always separated the movie from Karen's book AND the biographies that I read about Blixen, Denys, Beryl Markham and others, and just willfully appreciated it on its own starry eyed merits.

The book didn't mention Denys much, and the biographies point out that he was moving himself out this relationship. She had become demanding, jealous and kept asking for money from him.(Which after years of giving it to her, he finally refused to help her) He meanwhile got himself involved with Beryl Markham and supposedly she was supposed to be on the plane with him when he died. So that wistful watching of him flying away the last time (not when he crashed) seemed a little tainted to me. BUT I went along with the movie having its OWN story to tell. Redford really showed a detached sadness about his character and I believed HIM.

I have noticed that biographers oft times have their own personal slants and present their *characters* sympathetically, even when they throw in a few snarky remarks about them. I got the niggling feeling that both Karen and Beryl either appeared to lie and/or tell stories that showed THEM in the best light.

[–] evergreen-6 11 years ago

Of course the film is great. Pollack told his story well. The film keeps urging people to know more, and that's great, too.

All the people involved telling their stories about Karen, Beryl, Denys - but for me most impressive thing about the latter is, that "as for charm, I suspect Denys invented it," wrote Beryl Markham".
Which impossible to describe, Redford is very attractive in person, but his is cowboyish charm. Nice American boy who happened to land in Africa somehow.

[–] zolazona 11 years ago

I didn't see "cowboyish" charm, though he definitely was an American- a well off and educated American, who was an excellent guide. I guess I tend to forgive movies with their mixed up nationality choices, possibly because I watched too many movies as a kid which had people who were supposed to be either Roman, or Asian or ? who all talked with posh British accents. None of them looked Italian or Asian or ? either.

The first time I visited Ireland, I attended a play in Dublin-The Cherry Orchard. At first I found it strange that all these *Russians* were speaking with an Irish accent, but then why would Russians speak with an American accent?!? Or a British one? Or?

I remember Redford more than anyone else in this movie.

Another quote from Markham:
“Denys (Finch-Hatton) has been written about before and he will be written about again. If someone has not already said it, someone will say that he was a great man who never achieved greatness, and this will not only be trite, but wrong; he was a great man who never achieved arrogance.”

[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] jeromegentes 10 years ago

I just watched it for the first time in many years myself, and frankly, it's a curio: a big, old-fashioned silver screen epic love story. Love of Africa and the idea of Africa, the love of romance in an exotic locale, our love of Streep, even then, and of Redford, who was already on his way toward championing exactly the opposite of the kind of moviemaking Out of Africa is. Perhaps our desire to love all these things at the same time, and the idea(s) of all these things, is what generates so much goodwill and passion towards Out of Africa.

Out of Africa reminds me a great deal of Reds, however, another labor of cinematic love that one feels goodwill toward. And like Reds, OOA ultimately isn't the masterpiece it seems. Pollack coasts a very, very long way on the virtues of Barry's score, Watkins' cinematography, Streep's performance, Luedtke's script, Canonero's costumes, and so on. And no doubt deserves he credit for marshaling that considerable bank of skills and gifts against what Universal and the producers wanted. It seems possible, even probable, that doing all of that is where Pollack's real efforts went, necessarily, and why he was awarded an Oscar for it.

Like The Right Stuff, OOA was old-fashioned moviemaking in the heyday of the early studio blockbuster. It's arguable that, having not had a gloriously large-spirited, large-minded romantic epic in many years prior to its release, and certainly not an American one, Out of Africa was particularly primed to benefit from our collective desire to be reconciled to Africa, to movies, to what movies had once been, and what movies were becoming in 1985. OOA is a gorgeous, generous collage of talents and work on a truly grand scale, but not, finally, the masterpiece movie many believe or want it to be.

[–] GuyOnTheLeft 10 years ago

My wife and I did cringe when we saw the elephant tusks. Looking it up, surprisingly ivory wasn't banned worldwide until 1989. But ban like that do not happen overnight, so Pollack must have known it was controversial at that point.

--------
Daily single-tweet movie reviews: https://twitter.com/SlackerInc