MovieChat Forums > No Retreat No Surrender (1986) Discussion > The Importance of Film Score?

The Importance of Film Score?

posted 11 years ago by bad_habitt
4 replies | jump to latest

I just watched the US version of this film for the first time. I've been told that the music of a film is 50% of its structure. However I've been sporadically watching this film for nearly 20 years (started as a 5 year old circa 1991) and I must say, the US cut doesn't that much omit the foundation and essence of what this film is truly about.

Now, the thing is, if you told me before watching the US version, the flashback training scenes in the final fight were going to be omitted, as would would the continuing score - I'd be enraged enough to denounce the proposed edit and cut of the film to be sacrilege and an abomination. However after seeing the actual cut, I realize now that film, is entirely a medium of momentary interpretation. It's no so much a rock show event, as it is a minute by minute experience, evolving into something mimicking an out of a body experience that doesn't in any way shape or form follow a precipitated structure, as it does a superficial outplaying of a evolving experience which continuously builds and builds till it finally encapsulates a finale that follows a closing credits sequence.

Now I'm not saying that the film experience is in any way devalued or fraudulent. I'm just bringing up the question of whether the actual film score and music is as significant as some make it out to me.

I know that queses and segways are somewhat antiquated ideas, however I'd like to know what people circa 2012 truly feel about how significant and important a film score and music is to a films ultimate effect. I say this because a film like Avatar or Avengers - sure - the score is competent and good, but is the score and music really that instrumental (no pun intended) to its over all effect on an audience?

I must say, after watching the US cut of this film after being exposed to and loving the international cut for nearly 20 years... I'm not so sure. I know feel like a score may very well be interchangeable as long as the surface emotional feel of a scene/sequence is not lost or faltered.

[–] ZOMBIE-8 11 years ago

When it comes to HK-produced films, film scores seem to be frequently interchangable! Bruce Lee's first film, The Big Boss, is a prime example of this. The Mandarin, Cantonese, and English dubbed tracks have three completely different scores!

My first exposure to the international cut's score was actually in the documentary "The Best of the Martial Arts Films" (released in the US as "The Deadliest Art"), but I just figured it was music added for the documentary. It would be nearly two decades later before I'd actually see the full international cut!

[–] bad_habitt 11 years ago

That's a very interesting point. NRNS part 2 also had a slightly altered score in the DVD release from the VHS release. I think you make a valid point in that HK-produced films are more prevalent in having the score interchanged.

I'm curious though whether the majority of people watching a film for the first time, would truly be affected by the underlying signature sound of a films score. Or if that is something that a viewer only familiarizes themselves with after multiple viewings of a particular film.

I mean I understand the score is important and it adds an extra dimension and emotion to a scene, however I also feel that if the acting/writing/directing of a scene is already top notch, the score itself on top of this may just have to mimic the basic feeling of what is already represented visually.

The attachment and distinction to a films score that may be made beyond that, is one that is purely created by someone who develops a relationship with the film beyond the initial viewing. These are often die-hard fans of a film/film genre, but these fans may realistically only make up 10% of the total demographic of people that will watch/pay to view the film in the first place. I feel that maybe it also has to do with people that have an ear for music as well.

[–] ZOMBIE-8 11 years ago

This is something I've always been curious about as well... does one's familiarity with the way a film is presented affect how they view an alternate presentation? In some cases it's only music, in other cases, it's full scenes or even rearranging scenes... in the case of NRNS, it's all three!

I've read both sides from people who've watched the film with the Paul Gilreath score initially, and those who watched the film with the Frank Harris score first. As far as I know, the Harris score was used in many non-English European releases, while New World Pictures commissioned the Gilreath score for the US and UK releases. Ironically, the Harris score also "borrows" music from other Hong Kong films, primarily ones composed by Michael Lai (Project A, My Lucky Stars, etc).

I've seen both cuts, and they both have their advantages and disadvantages, both in footage and music. Now, onto making that complete edition with both versions

[–] philburgwin 11 years ago

If the film score is wrong then it can ruin a film imho.

Then of course wrong to one person might be perfect to the next person.

One version of No Retreat No Surrender I absolutely love and another version (which I have only seen once) I hated it with a passion and largely because the soundtrack was abysmal.

(could not remember the different versions) looked on youtube, best example I could find is this version of the film I love:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTmvVqyhyao

this version of the film I hate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTCWTNgJM2M

Im not talking about the youtube sound quality just the choice of songs. For when RJ is dancing the second song is terrible does not go well enough / time well enough with the scene imho

and the next scene and choice of song is the one I hate the most when they are visiting Bruce Lee's grave. The to fast, to loud, sounds like it belongs more in a horror film tubular bells ish music just completely ruins the Bruce Lee grave scene imho.

I am not a musician / do not create music, just like watching films and I think film score is very important. I agree with whoever said that the music of a film is 50% of its structure.

*edit I dont think the score / music can make a crap film excellent but I do think it can ruin a film and it can make an excellent film crap.