MovieChat Forums > Legend (1986) Discussion > Give me back the Theatrical Release

Give me back the Theatrical Release

posted 15 years ago by randomlynx
72 replies | jump to latest

Seriously, the Director's Cut is forgettable and just overall not that good. I remember Legend as being a somewhat dreamlike and definitely eighties fantasy which remains a good movie in a cult sort of way. I couldn't believe it was the same movie, glad I owned the original release before seeing the director's cut.

The change in soundtrack was singly the biggest mistake. Whatever their original intentions, Tangerine Dream did the superior soundtrack. Besides the two voiced songs which were quite memorable, scenes like Lilly's dance sequence took on a whole different feel from the beautifully broken melody by TD to the bland Goldsmith song (it had a few beats which I was starting to enjoy and then quickly flattened out again). Goldsmith does good stuff but in this case it was very typical for a fantasy movie for that time, but it felt especially bland after knowing the previous soundtrack.

The additional/extended scenes didn't add anything and mostly took away from the feel. The only scene I thought was worthwhile was the extended scene with Meg - it made a heckuva lot more sense in the longer version rather than confused fight with Jack in the shortened theatrical version. But everything else wasn't necessary - especially the longer ending.

I prefer the original version, actually I find that in many cases the original is better - there are reasons why certain sequences are shortened or cut out entirely. Maybe it's not always for the best but overall, usually it's usually better to keep the original reasons you loved a movie over trying to change the entire feel for a few extra minutes of footage.

[–] cloudstain79 15 years ago

While some of your points are valid, overall the director's cut is FAR superior. The music by Jerry Goldsmith adds to the overall mythic feel to the movie, not the new age vibe of the Tangerinde Dream score(which is okay, I grew up with the theatrical version also) but I can see when something is better and am not clouded by childhood memories. The directors cut is the version I watch now more than the theatrical cut.

[–] Chyronn 15 years ago

after reading the trivia section and finding out there are four or five versions of this film, i wish Scott did a Blade Runner and release all the cuts as one package. but knowing the People Upstairs, this film doesn't warrant such attention. we'll just have to go with what version's on TV and in the stores

[–] randomlynx 15 years ago

Honestly I thought the Goldsmith soundtrack was quite boring and forgettable. I realize it's more standard fantasy movie fare but the "new age" feel of TD just felt better to me - and I don't think that's because I saw the theatrical release first.

The added footage overall didn't work for me. Even a close friend of mine who watched it with me, and who didn't rememeber the theatrical release, agreed the ending dragged quite a bit. Most of the other scenes to me didn't add much, though the scene with the swamp troll was nice to see the extended version. Even if you prefer the director's cut, I don't know how it can be called FAR superior.

Myself, I still give the director's cut a thumbs down.

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] bluehornet 15 years ago

I totally agree with you. Thats one of the reasons I liked the Tangerine version. A fantasy film incorporating a more modern style of music is more unique than getting the London Symphony Orchestra to do there 1,000th fantasy score. If you look at fantasy films, videogames after Lord of the Rings they ALL SOUND EXACTLY like LotR! I may have been 'clouded' by the fact that I was a child when I saw the film but sometimes films are only really appreciated for sentimental value.

[–] jpowell180 13 years ago

Nothing beats the Tangerine Dream score...for all his legendary-ness (no pun intended), I just don't see the need for yet another cookie-cutter Jerry Goldsmith musical scoring for this film.
While I am usually in favor of extended director's cuts, in this case it's just not worth giving up the PHENOMENAL Tangerine Dream soundtrack.....now, if they simply dubbed the Director's cut with yet more Tangerine Dream, that would work for me!

[–] aurelie_ledoyen 15 years ago

I agree 200%-I grew up with the theatrical release and saw it again on cable not knowing it was the director's cut-something seemed terribly wrong. The emotion and mood wasn't there! Maybe if I had grown up with the director's cut, I'd be ok with it, but I probably wouldn't have become such a Legend fan.

Would you classify that as a launch problem or a design problem?-Real Genius

[–] maxorec 15 years ago

I agree the Meg scene was the best and I think a lot of the scenes within Darkness's castle made that whole act make more sense but at the same time certain scenes I liked were CUT which annoyed me. Like Darkness saying "Eat... Drink..." Unless I completely missed it. I liked the Tangerine Dream music better too. The Jerry Goldsmith score just sounded generic and boring to me. It wasn't bad, it just wasn't memorable. With the exception of the ending music with lyrics like "loved by the sun..." I can see why people would get annoyed with that, but the rest of the music fits the mood of the film better.

Anyways, that's why I got the Ultimate Edition. It has both versions and I think they're both worth owning and watching. Fans should watch both and decide which one they like best.

[–] Cocytus 15 years ago

I like TD soundtrack better.

[–] LaPfieffer92 15 years ago

i havent seen the directors cut, and i really dont want to because it might ruin the experience of the original cut. even though the TD soundtrack sounds very 80's, i still think it was beautiful in its own unique way.

[–] info-4857 15 years ago

There's a couple of scenes that IMO really don't work in the extended cut.

Darknesses father talking to him had a much creepier voice in the original.

Darkness's reveal to Lily when he steps through the mirror was ridiculous, Darkness pulls this ridiculous supervillain pose when he emerges.

The other problem with the directors cut is it eliminates the scene where Jack and Gump accidentally awaken those freaky ghouls that burst out of the ground which I found creepy as hell.

One problem with both cuts which they did solve but didn't use in either is the opening.
The alternate opening with Blix and the rest showing them finding the unicorn hair I think is the best possible opening because:
It adds more mystery to the film.
It explains Blunders bird-hand.
Blix has some kickass monologues in this scene.
It cuts to the chase a lot quicker.
It hides the great tree palace until later on for a better reveal.
More importantly, it doesn't give darknesses true form until he reveals himself to Lily.

Now the last one I think is quite important. Showing Darkness at the start negates the need for him to appear in his wraith form to Blix later on when he takes the horn because the audience has already seen him.
Darkness should have appeared always in his Wraith form until he shows himself to Lily for the first time, it would have been a much more dramatic reveal.
Indeed that reveal to Lily does give the impression it's the first time we've seen darkness in that form when we have seen him before.

I did like the extended Gump material like his little time bauble was great and additional dialogue with Jack at the campfire was good. Also the Meg Mucklebones stuff is totally awesome and is better than the slapped together temp cut they gave a final release to.

I'd love to see another cut with the TD score, the alternate opening with extended Meg and Gump scenes.

I won't add to the soundtrack debate too much because it's older than God but I do prefer the TD score it has a lot more atmosphere and a lot more heart than the JG score (and this is coming from a massive JG fan).
The JG score would have worked better for the original shooting script of Legend which was on a much wider scale than the final film but the TD is more mystical and intimate and the film is better for it.
I think some peopel consider that just because TD is synth and the JG score is orchestra that instantly makes it a winner, when I'm thinking about the actual themes ebween the two scores and the TD one for some reason yanks on my heartstrings a bit more and adds to the innocense lost aspect of the film.

[–] randomlynx 15 years ago

I have to know, why does Blunder have a bird hand? I never understood that. Can't say I understand how he went from evil to good either but the bird hand is the more pressing question on my mind :)

[–] Raithen 15 years ago

Wow. Awesome post that sums up pretty much exactly what I would have liked to have articulated about both cuts of the film!

The much maligned (although maybe not so much as I thought after reading this thread!) Tangerine Dream score is beautiful and captures the mood of the film from beginning to end. I've always thought the Jerry Goldsmith score in the Director's Cut was a bit pedestrian and obvious - to be quite frank, I found it boring.

That said, the extended Meg Mucklebones bit adds so much more depth and relevance to the scene I'm surprised they hacked much of it out for the theatrical release. You almost wonder if Scott was considering removing the whole scene altogether but the better part of him at least managed to convince that it should remain - at least, partially.

It's a real shame - I really wish you could have the option to seamlessly branch the scenes which resonate more with you on the DVD. In other words, sort of create your own cut of the film. Lord knows I'd do that with the Star Wars "special editions"... lol

In the end, I think that "Legend" is a completely over-looked and under-appreciated masterpiece. Ridley Scott captured the very essence of fantasy and fairy tales and weaved it into a very adult frame. I find it amusing that his "hack and slash" edit of the film (which ended up as the theatrical release) actually ended up to be, in my humble estimation, the superior cut. As I mentioned in another thread on this board, it's sort of the opposite of his work on "Blade Runner", where clearly the Director's Cut is the true masterpiece while the theatrical cut is but a pale shadow.

Cheers!

[–] randomlynx 15 years ago

I would still check out the director's cut. I really didn't like it but there are some scenes that do help explain some things. And don't worry about it ruining your original experience, a lot of the stuff that you'll dislike the director's cut is forgettable anyways.

[–] LesLegionsNoires 15 years ago

I definitely prefer the US cut as well. There is no comparison to the Tangerine Dream soundtrack. The TV version is really good as well, it has the narrated opening and some extra dialogue. The full Meg scene is in it as well, along with some great 80's commercials. Usually when they toss in deleted scenes to stretch out a film to broadcast length, it doesn't hold up well, but whoever did that edit did a good job.

Valhalla is not for the sheep.

[–] tabernac_estee 15 years ago

I liked the Theatrical release as well.

Though there are some quality scenes in the DC. Mostly in the fact that there are more scenes with Lily and Darkness, and the extended action with Lily approaching the Unicorn was good as well.

The Theatrical version flowed easier. There didn't seem like large blocks of time wasted on extended or useless scenes.

Remember, sometimes less is more when it comes to movies.

As for the soundtrack, I found Goldsmith's work to be too conventional. TD added some spice to the overall effect of the movie.

[–] cedrics 13 years ago

The JG release showed more of Lily's pettiness, and the ending is quite a shocker since it is left unknown if she will return or not. Did she learn a lesson? Does she really love Jack or is she toying with him? It's a great diversion from the standard happy ending fairy tale.

[–] Emkay-09 11 years ago

I think that kind of ambiguity would be out of place in a movie like Legend. This movie (the U.S cut) was meant to be like Ridley Scott's homage to the simple fairy tales of old where "good was good" and "bad was bad", "men were real men", "women were real women", "Princesses were meant to be resuced by their knight in shining armor", "good triumphs over evil" and they "all live happily ever after.". I don't believe that every single movie benefits from the Byzantine layers of plot and characterization that seem to be the rule today. Sometimes, there's a lot to be found in simplicity. I'm sure even Ridley Scott likes to take a break sometimes.

[–] muskeato 11 years ago

Fairy tales of old were never so simple, and often had no such happy ending.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Little_Mermaid

Hardly good triumphing over evil.

[–] Knightmessenger 15 years ago

First, you can get the original US version as well as the director's cut in one 2 disc dvd set.
http://www.amazon.com/Legend-Ultimate-Tom-Cruise/dp/B000063UR2/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1240774555&sr=8-1

Second, the Tangerine Dream version is not really the original version. It was edited after earlier cuts of the film did poorly in test screenings. The 113 min director's cut was the first edit to be completed. But outside of advance screenings, it was never shown to audiences. For the International release (rights held by Fox), the film was significantly cut down to 90 minutes. But for the American release (rights held by Universal), the film was recut differently and the original Jerry Goldsmith score was replaced by Tangerine Dream. This is the version you remember but it was actually the last cut to be created.

http://www.youtube.com/Knightmessenger
originaltrilogy.com

[–] Zan-tastic 15 years ago

Give me back the Theatrical Release

IMO, you can have it

Do not cast your P.E.A.R.L.s before swine

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] SilensMortea 15 years ago

I agree with you totally, I myself hate the Director's cut. I didn't mind the additional scenes as much as the fact that they changed the music. Tangerine Dream had it pinned- their sound fit with the movie we all know and love.Their music in this film was magical- and when the music was changed the whole feel went with it.

~I am the dream forgotten in the morning~

[–] Zan-tastic 15 years ago

For Christ's sake, it's just music, I never understood what this debate was about. Am I really the last person on IMDB who watches movies for their plot?

Do not cast your P.E.A.R.L.s before swine

[–] SilensMortea 15 years ago

JUST music? Don't you know music makes the movie? It sets the mood for the entire film! Music is everything, even if you don't consciously hear it, it's there. Haven't you ever watched a deleted scene that shows a snippet, with only the voices and nothing else? It's so dull, boring. You need everything to make the movie great, and changing the music changed the mood of the movie- which was my point. Are you THAT oblivious?

~I am the dream forgotten in the morning~

[–] Zan-tastic 15 years ago

I guess that answered my question

Do not cast your P.E.A.R.L.s before swine

[–] lockon_stratos 12 years ago

you are very clueless, music is everything

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[–] Raithen 15 years ago

Films are NOT just plot. They're comprised of dialog, special/visual effects, acting, sound/foley work, background art, props, costumes, sets (interior and exterior), editing, MUSIC, etc. (I could go on and on!).

Every one of those elements adds to the very essence of the film. Not only that, but music is an extremely POWERFUL medium by which audiences can be manipulated.

Can you imagine Star Wars with a pop-rock theme? Wouldn't you agree that John Williams' score is powerful, dynamic and EPIC?

Anyway, it's clear that your allegiance is with the Director's Cut of the film. So be it. The film seems to resonate more with the Tangerine Dream score for many of us. Or I should I believe that you honestly, deep down, could not care less about music in film?

I'm sure you're not the last person on IMDB to miss the point of music in film - but I call shenanigans on anyone's opinion of film if they dismiss the importance of the music score.

[–] Zan-tastic 15 years ago

So I'm wrong just because my opinion doesn't coincide with yours?

Meh, it's the internet, that's pretty par for the course...

Anyway, it's clear that your allegiance is with the Director's Cut of the film.

For what it's worth, I do prefer the Theatrical Release's music for the waltzing scene. If I have any "allegiance" to the Director's Cut, it's because I appreciate the extended scenes and didn't decide outright that I was going to hate it because the music was different

Or I should I believe that you honestly, deep down, could not care less about music in film?

If changing the music in a film takes nothing away from it, then no, I really couldn't care less. Tell me, what did the original score take away from the movie that it must be hated so?

United, We Stand!
In God, We Trust!
Like Yoda, We Talk!

[–] Raithen 15 years ago

Is that your argument? I constructed an argument that had articulated points as to why film is more than just the plot - that several aspects of the production are important to the medium - what did you provide?

Your opinion isn't wrong because it's different than mine. Your opinion is wrong because if music wasn't important - if it wasn't perceived as a necessary, moving element - then why do films even have a score?! Music is absolutely integral. The next time you watch a film, imagine it without the score, or imagine it with a completely different style (a la my Star Wars pop-rock analogy).

I'm sorry, but if you're going to have an opinion, at least back it up with something substantial. Dismissing music and ranting about how "plot" is the only thing that really matters and then flippantly replying with "meh it's the internet, that's pretty par for the course" when someone actually questions your opinion? Come on, you can do better than that!

That being said, you seem to be implying that some of us hate the extended cut of the film as a result of the music. Granted, the score (in my opinion) by Jerry Goldsmith seems pedestrian and uninspired, but that's not the only reason why I much prefer the theatrical cut. The main reason I dislike the extended cut is that I feel it suffers from issues with pacing. I've given details on this in other threads so I won't get into it here, but it surely isn't just the score. I will admit though that music is VERY powerful - and regardless of the plot, if the music sucks (or, to be less harsh, if it doesn't mesh) it'll take you right out of the film.

[–] Zan-tastic 15 years ago

Is that your argument?

Actually, I wasn't intending on arguing. I'm sure you find arguing about this as pointless as I do, I'm willing to agree to disagree with a "to each his own" attitude.

United, We Stand!
In God, We Trust!
Like Yoda, We Talk!

[–] Raithen 15 years ago

No, I'm afraid I'd like you to concede that music DOES/CAN make a tremendous impact on the movie going experience.

After that, I'm willing to agree that the argument is pointless. :)

[–] Zan-tastic 15 years ago

No, I'm afraid I'd like you to concede that music DOES/CAN make a tremendous impact on the movie going experience.

Well then deal with disappointment, I'm conceding nothing of the kind. And I'm not arguing with you anymore.

United, We Stand!
In God, We Trust!
Like Yoda, We Talk!

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] 6502freak 15 years ago

I agree with you totally, I myself hate the Director's cut. I didn't mind the additional scenes as much as the fact that they changed the music.

They did not change anything! What you see on the Legend Ultimate edition is a transfer of the second workprint, which was created almost HALF A YEAR before the movie was significantly CUT DOWN for the US release. Jerry Goldsmith's score IS the original music for this film, whether you like it or not. Mia Sara is singing to HIS compositions. The "Director's Cut" (which is a misleading term, since the version on the DVD is NOT a recut, but a transfer of an EARLIER cut) is as close to the original version as one can get.

[–] T-eschberger 15 years ago

I gotta say, the DC is a much more coherent film then the theatrical cut. The pace and story seem much more focused in the DC. I will admit the Goldsmith score is more traditional, but its hardly a bad score. Hell, its a wonderful score. The Tangerine Dream score is amazing as well and still my favorite, but Goldsmiths score fits the film quit well imo.

[–] Raithen 15 years ago

If anything, I find the pacing in the Director's Cut to be anything but focussed. There seems to be a lot of superfluous scenes in the DC that dragged the pace of the film down without adding the depth that they were intended to convey.

That said, I felt that both films were coherent. I also feel that there were certain scenes in the DC that would have made the theatrical cut stronger - namely, the alternate beginning as well as Meg Mucklebones extended.

To each his/her own though. I'm just glad to see there's enough people who care about this gem of a film to debate it some 20+ years later! :-)

[–] ellimist 15 years ago

I guess I should preface by saying that if you like the director's cut, or find equal merit in both, that is great and I am not here to say you are wrong, stupid, etc... But I really liked the theatrical cut better and here's why:

I think that, in this case, the editors actually did the movie a favor by cutting it down. A lot of the director's cut's flaws have already been mentioned, but to sum up:

The expository in the beginning that was added in the theatrical version was very good. It set the stage of the characters as well as an intriguing view on the dichotomy of good and evil to think about as a backdrop throughout the film.

Many of the parts they edited made the movie feel much more drawn out. The worst one was the extended conversation/riddle thing when Jack meets Gump. It really takes away from the thread of the story. There were a few seconds where they all just stand in silence and it almost feels like a stage play where someone forgot their line. Some of the other Jack/Lily lines were just plain corny and overdone as well.

A small detail, but nonetheless important, is the Lord of Darkness' father's voice. Being the father to the Lord of Darkness you would expect him to be even more evil and badass than Tim Curry's character (who is already pretty darn evil). In the Director's Cut the father's voice is higher and more raspy, rather than older and deeper in the theatrical version. It reminded me of an egotistical cartoon cat rather than presumably Satan himself. Comparison: Izma turned into a cat in The Emperor's New Groove versus the Emperor in Star Wars.

And lastly the music. The Tangerine Dream soundtrack is an astoundingly better fit than the original. Granted it is more eighties, pop feel, but in this case that is exactly what the movie needs to make it more powerful. JG's soundtrack would better fit the Shire scenes in Lord of the Rings and this movie is no Lord of the Rings. It's much smaller scale, not as mature, and has a glamorous pop-star feel (consider all the glitter used throughout the movie). Also, the more modern eighties music works well with the colloquialisms in the script:
1. references to pork chops and barbecue
2. Brown Tom dodging arrows like a tennis player
3. calling the Lord of Darkness "Big D"
4. the "adios amigos" line
Additionally, Goldsmith's soundtrack is not nearly as powerful or magical. Many of the scene's in the director's cut had much less emotion with the original music.
1. In the theatrical version, the scene when the Goblins approach Nell's cabin is ten times as scary as the original version with the weak music.
2. The sense of temptation and trickery when Una turns into Lily in the cage is extremely diluted.
3. Lily's dance with the black dress thing: Tangerine Dream's music conveys a sense of sensual beauty and playful lust perfectly balanced with an undertone of evil; versus Goldsmith's version, which is more like a carousel waltz at an amusement park with some choral background to remind us that there is darkness around.

The only scene I liked in the director's cut was the extended conversation between Jack and Meg. It had the nice feel of an old bedtime fable.

All in all, the theatrical cut's editing took a small-scale glitzy and colloquial fantasy with, let's be honest, juvenile acting (for the most part) and really made it work as an amazingly beautiful, entertaining and meaningful film.

[–] 6502freak 15 years ago

I guess I should preface by saying that if you like the director's cut, or find equal merit in both, that is great and I am not here to say you are wrong, stupid, etc... But I really liked the theatrical cut better and here's why:

The "theatrical cut" is the earlier released international version, which is quite similar to the "director's cut". What you are referring to is the "US theatrical cut", which was released almost half a year later.

[–] ellimist 15 years ago

right on...good call

[–] megArnold 15 years ago

Right, having grown up in Europe with the ACTUAL theatrical cut (with Goldsmiths's music) from the beginning, it's always funny when people describe a version re-edited by the producers (because the original was deemed to be "too complicated" for the average US teenie) and re-decorated with a new score (as good as it might be) as the "original" version.

And keep in mind that Shore/LotR came twenty years AFTER the Goldsmith score, so who is imitating who?

(On the other hand, the Goldsmith score is (rightfully, in terms of plot and atmosphere) based on Maurice Ravel's 1912 pastoral "Daphnis and Chloe", which reflects the artistic choice Ridley Scott intended with this movie...)

[–] scruffy58 15 years ago

Very well said. Mr. Goldsmith's Impressionistic orchestral colors were perfectly suited to the European fairy tale plot and imagery that Ridley scott was trying to capture.

"Thus, we began our longest journey together."
Adult Scout, 'To Kill A Mockingbird'