Steven killed this movie in the end, made it way too sappy + predictable

There were times when I hated Steve, too. He was the guy who talks a good game about being fair, but is actually only interested in being "fair" to his family.

He sort of fools us when he calls his father's treachory a dirty trick, and he makes us believe he is thoughtful and humane, but we see this is a facade when he threatens the mute nun just to force a man to ride with them. It makes me suspect that he never really cared about the men his father killed in his treachory, but was simply interested in challenging his father.

Martin also has a mean streak. In fact, the most likable characters are the two homosexuals. They are the ones we feel the most compassion for. And perhaps Hawkwood.

The film wasn't all lovey dovey, but it wasn't completely depressing either. The surviving characters go their own ways. The "doctor" adopts the new method of healing the plague. The good looking girl is still there for the soldiers.

In fact, on a scale of believable coincidences, the ending registered quite well with me. In essensce, the film says that these two who will become like king and queen are fairly reasonable people, but selfish. One wouldn't look for them to enjoy sadism like a Roman emperor. And we see how their lives affect others around them.



Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time
that's not funny!

Nobility = Scum

Son of Nobility = Scum


But did this movie say any different?

I thoought it was just realistically pointing out that the Scum often win. If they didnt often win then, by definition, they wouldnt be the nobility in the first place

So basically you're complaining that the characters weren't one dimensional little caricatures, that the "good guy" didn't triumph over the "bad guy", yadda yadda yadda? There are hundreds of crappy films that will satisfy you, *beep* off from this one.



~ Observe, and act with clarity. ~

Watch the ending scene again, and pay attention this time. She rides off with Steven, yes, BUT: We see Martin scrambling out of the ruins. SHE sees Martin. Steven doesn't. She doesn't tell him, but watches Martin steal away to safety. It is completely ambiguous where exactly her loyalty lies. She has a sense of loyalty to Steven, but also to Martin. It seems that she sticks to whoever wins, and she certainly wishes for Martin to get another chance.

This is a great thread for a great film. All the posts are very intelligent, but I think many here are overlooking the "good" in the characters.

Yes, they are three dimensional, even the ones we think of as the worst. I would expect that to be these three: Arnold, the cardinal, and the evil looking bald soldier, but Arnold does look out for the innocent people who would be victims when he betrays his mercenaries (although I think even here he is doing it out of a desire to do evil, since he does this continually). The cardinal earnestly believes in what he is doing, which is probably why he isn't where a cardinal usually is. These mercenaries probably were "his" guards at the start, and he feels a stewardship over them. I would guess the one he kills is one who wasn't part of his guard, and he never trusted that one to begin with. The evil looking bald soldier is very team oriented, and loyal to his friends. Sure, he turns on Martin, but he sees himself as Martin's competitor.

I think people are dwelling on the "bad" aspects of the characters too much. I see the good in them. And honestly, there are almost no "bad aspects" of the characters of at least four of them (Hawk Wood, the two gay soldiers, and the mother of the boy). Those four are very steadily noble of character throughout.





Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!

I'm not sure I see that Steven is an arrogant douche at all. He is shown as intelligent & ingenious (his rolling barrel bomb and his armored ladder siege weapon); he cares for people (see how he tries to warn the man who blows up with the bomb, or his indicting words to Hawkwood about the brain damaged nun); he wasn't interested in marrying a rich virgin with a huge dowry arranged by his father. He says he wants to be a scholar and a scientist. He even puts on a hard face when Agnes is kidnapped in order to get Hawkwood on board to help him (but it was his father's idea to threaten the nun if Hawkwood declined).