MovieChat Forums > Death of a Salesman (1985) Discussion > Oh God what an evil evil evil play.

Oh God what an evil evil evil play.

posted 16 years ago by Dudley_Dawson
14 replies | jump to latest

Why does everything have to criticize America? Why all the America hating. This play belongs in the fantasy section next to Lord of the Rings and Star Wars. Our country is the richest in the world and the tools of success are still there for everyone to utilize.

I found it ironic that the film had obviously fake set pieces. This reflected explicitly that the characters were in a fantasy world and beyond that fake house the real world existed where people were actually smart and successful.

The day of the door to door salesmen is thankfully over with. A very smart man once came up with the concept of producing what people would buy, rather than producing crap and then having salesmen try to push it on people. This is the pull strategy that corporations now use and it's a beautiful thing. The only salesman you need for an iPod is the teenager at Best Buy to point out the iPod section in the store. The rest sells itself.

I can't believe there is still a mentality where people believe you shouldn't have to adapt in this world and that a corporation should be a stability provider. Life should be a boxing match. Sometimes you act, sometimes you react but you can't just stand there and punch and expect your opponent to take it.

I have an uncle who was an airline mechanic. He was laid off 4 times by 3 airlines. Yes one airline laid him off twice. He finally entered a trade school at the age of 45. Now he fixes medical equipment and the small firm he works for is busy as hell. This is what Willie Loman should have done. Adapt. (I wish my uncle would have made his choice after layoff #2.)

I graduated college about 8 years ago with an accounting degree. Recently I got my CPA (similar to being chartered for non-US folks). I know that if I want to climb a ladder to success I must learn more about my trade and improve my craft. Next year I will be taking public speaking courses as well. Am I done learning yet? No, I will keep evaluating my career until I retire. If I want to stay on top instead of being a reactionary slug like Willy Loman then that's what I have to do.

If you decide to graduate from high school and coast for the next 35 years in a comfortable job, then yes, you can expect the American Dream to dissipate before you. Did someone promise you it wouldn't though? Isn't working smart an element of working hard?

[–] bfoot045 16 years ago

Life is a spiritual and intuitive journey more than it is financial and material. Do not think that success is just measured in how far you can push your career.

Furthermore, America is not the richest country in the world. We may be the biggest economic trader, but even that title will slip away to China in the next several years. Luxembourg currently has the highest GDP per Capita @ $68,800. America is sixth behind Equatorial Guinea,United Arab Emirates,Norway, and Ireland respectively. This is because of Wealth distribution. In the United States at the end of 2001, 10% of the population owned 71% of the wealth, and the top 1% controlled 38%. On the other hand, the bottom 40% owned less than 1% of the nation's wealth.

Many people do not have the money to send their children to college. Without college nowadays, one can expect a very small fixed income, with hardly even enough to support oneself because minimum wage is not keeping up with the devaluation of the US dollar. It is not about working hard, it is that not everyone has the mental capacity or the money to go as far as you have.

I would advise you to get up off of your ignorant blind nationalistic ass and start having consideration for people that are in less desirable conditions than you are.

[–] estcst-3 9 years ago

I don't have a college education and I make more individually than the average American household income in a low-middle class suburban area. You're the one who is a blind ass. I've heard the sob stories and most of these people have no dedication to bettering themselves. A few I sincerely wish had it better because they got a raw deal but most people dig their own holes both in life and in death.

[–] megArnold 16 years ago

OP, I have to thank you.

You made this play possible.

You and your asinine glorification of a long lost dream, putting financial success above everything: respect for other people, family values, caring for the fellow man.

One day you'll wake up from your dream, empty, and realize that money doesn't feed you, that money doesn't love you, that money doesn't care about you.

You are exactly like Willy Loman (and that's why you hate him): eternally happy in his delusion that success will help him shut up the voices inside his head, help him forget the lost opportunities to make people around him happy, help him make up for his own emptiness and alienation.

It's too late to start planting a garden when you are 63.

Oh, and stop watching educational films from the 1940es. You already talk like one.

[–] save_the_ents 16 years ago

I was going to comment on the OP but this post basically wins all. Thanks.

[–] heinously 15 years ago

this thread was started ages ago but still...

I do not understand for the life of me how this play criticizes america. Yes, it criticizes the american DREAM, the ideal of having a steady job in business and living in a house that you own with your family that consists of the (at the time) ideal two children, but no, it does not criticize any specific country.

The set peices are SUPPOSED to look 'fake,' because the entire play narrates Willy's guilt, corrupt ideal of the American dream, and mental disintegration.

None of the points you make in the post contribute at ALL to your calling this movie evil, by the way.

[–] Knoxvicious 15 years ago

You win some, you lose some.

Though I believe that Capitalism is overall good, it does has some bad sides to it and isn't perfect (Overall no ecnomic way is) and this is one of the instances on how it can backfire. Why is this an evil play for just showing that side? It is very sad, but I have no idea how to got the impression this film was anti-American. Even in the movie and play Willy makes a comment saying how it's the greatest country in the world and how it's crazy anyone could be lost in it.

The play more or so focused on Willian having faults and because of that, it ruined him, his wife, and maybe even his sons. A little thing like that can change everything. Willy's thoughs that his sons were better than Charleys just because they were better looking and more liked is one instance of his ignorance. Yet you still feel sympathy for him at the end of the day...

Currently obsessed with: Burn After Reading

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] Pianohero4 13 years ago

This film doesn't criticize the "American dream". The American dream is simple and was actually achieved by the family in the film ( 2 children, owning home, not homeless etc). This film dealt with mediocrities. The dream is mediocre. It is the bare essentials, but people want more. This was about a man recognizing his insignificance and so fourth

LOST SPOILERS , IN THE ENDINGit was about the characters and purgatory

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] raindog517 13 years ago

Not sure where this play specifically criticizes America...it's a statement on a person's failed dreams and delusions which I feel could translate into any language and any culture.

www.robmcgwrites.com

[–] jconn426 11 years ago

Did you even watch the play? First of all, Willy Lohman wasn't a "door to door salesman". He sold (unspecified) products to stores (or manufacturers) in the New England area. He was a guy who pursued the WRONG career and tried hard to bull his way to the top, but then wondered why he couldn't. (This is why he kept asking, "What's the secret?")

This was the way he taught to Biff and Hap. Hap was still doing it. B.S. was a second language to him. Biff's illusions were shattered when he was eighteen, but by then the damage had already been done. He was locked into the idea that he was already better than everyone else in the room, and became frustrated when he proved not to be. By the end of the play he seems to have reached a point where he was at peace with himself. He knew what the problem was, he finally confronted his father with the truth, and appeared to be ready to move on and live in the real world. Hap, on the other hand, was more blinded than ever. Hap
always craved the attention that both parents paid to his older brother, and still did.

In reality, Willy should have either taken up Ben's offer of a job with him, managing his lumber operations in Alaska, or traded his suits for overalls and put his carpentry skills to profitable use as a contractor. Instead, he latched onto the idea that he could duplicate the success of an old salesman he once met or heard about. Unfortunately, Willy wasn't privy to the hard work the man had put in, nor of the exact details about why he was so successful. (Maybe he was the very first to sell a particular product, for example, and built his success upon that. Willy was a latecomer to a game that already had its share of both veterans and other eager young men like himself. On the other hand, success doesn't necessarily translate into fortune. After all, why was a guy in his eighties still working? Love of the job? Perhaps, but then again, maybe he really needed the money. Willy probably didn't know. He just thought he had found an easy way up the ladder.)

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And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

[–] 11 years ago

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