Who impregnated Sister Agnes?!
so who's the father of sister agnes' baby?!
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MovieChat Forums > Agnes of God (1985) Discussion > Who impregnated Sister Agnes?!
Gaaaaawwwwwdddd, I was gonna start a thread asking the same thing...
Bleh.
"Hated by fools and fools to hate. Be that my motto and my fate."
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the groundskeeper...but I would rather think it was god too. Too bad it's based on a play instead of a novel.
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Thanks for the info. Don't get run over.
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(deleted posts) What the hell is their problem? Anyway, I think its God too. Or an angel. But I'm wondering if killing the baby was a mistake or if it was supposed to happen?
shareAgnes, of course, thought the whole thing was a mistake.
However, we can assume that if God was trying to do this and send another messiah or something (no reason it can't be a girl), He will try again.
God, obviously.
shareAgnes calls the baby "she". There are nine documented virgin births on record -- all girls who look like their mothers. Doctors speculate it's a kind of spontaneous cloning or twinning. That's what I think might have happened. "She [had enough faith to] put a hole in her hand -- why couldn't she split a cell in her womb?"
sharePls. let me know where you got your info. I've heard of virgin births in plants, animals & humans but not in specific articles. To me that theory sounds plausible. And Agnes being as she was, would believe it was God & if that did happen wouldn't it be God who made the cloning/twinning process possible, thus making him the father after all? I think the writer intended for it to remain a mystery, but it's interesting to discuss the possibilities.
shareI'm curious, though, if she really believed it was God's child, why did she kill it (send it back to him)?
I agree that the writer and director intended it to remain a mystery.
It appears, however, that she was dilusional enough to convince herself she didn't have sex with the ground's keeper.
And she got very agitated when questioned; only really answered while under hypnosis.
The final point seemed to be, "why torture this "child" any longer?"
Let it be.
The scene that stuck out to me was when she told Mother Superior that she burned her sheets because they were stained. Then she said that it wasn't her time of the month. To me that implies that she had sex (or was raped) by someone in the barn. A virgin conception (spontanious cell division) wouldn't involve blood (hence the term: immaculate conception).
shareagreed with agspiess. That scene pretty much indicated her hymen being broken, hence it could not have been a virgin birth.
shareby the way though, agspiess, not to offend, but I have to clear up the misconception of the immaculate conception. 'Virginal conception' and 'immaculate conception' are two different things. The immaculate conception is actually a doctrine that states that the Virgin Mary was preserved from the stain of original sin at the time of her conception.
shareIt is you who has some misconceptions -- there is no such thing as immaculate conception or virginal conception, except for invitro fertilization, I guess.
sharePeterdeter,
From your response, it seems obvious that you were not raised as a Catholic. From the standpoint of Catholic doctrine, piknwallflowers is correct.
SIncerely,
Ghislaine Laure
The greatest thing you'll ever learn
is just to love, and be loved in return
I didnt get the impression it was God who impregnated Agnes at all. I think Agnes was so naive she didnt understand about sex. I go the impression that she was raped in the barn by some pervert.
shareWow. Good job, Peterdeter. You did a fine job of displaying your utter stupidity and lack of reading comprehension skills to perfection. Now, did I anywhere in my post say that I believed in immaculate conception or virginal conception? Anywhere? Right. Now, since you took the liberty of assuming things about me, I'll just be doing the same here. You're probably some miseducated, pseudo-intellectual wise-ass who jumps at every occassion to contradict or attack anything coming from a religious perspective because you're like, oh my god, so cool and noncomformist like that. You probably assumed that I'm some religious zealot who blindly proselytizes my beliefs on messageboards and whose only purpose in life is to attain eternal life and salvation from the fiery pits of hell. Help me, Lord! Help me! Look, *beep*, I'm actually a born and raised Buddhist, but that doesn't stop me from actually taking a human interest in in the world around me, and attempting to acquire some knowledge on subjects before opening my mouth. You should try it some time. The point I was trying to make, which you clearly demonstrated of completely missing because you were too busy making an ass of yourself, is that there is a common misconception that "immaculate conception" deals with the virgin birth of Christ when in fact it actually refers to the Virgin Mary being born without original sin. Now how did you go from me making a simple correction to me advocating the beliefs of the two? Oh right...I forget, you're a badass noncomformist(who can't read). A noncomformist who has to refute anything and everything orthodox even if it means looking like a total moron in the process. Aw, and you thought you were being brilliant, poor thing. Try harder next time.
shareWow, you are messed up!
shareNo, you are. Rather, you're taking things too literally. No one is saying that the virgin birth or immaculate conception are facts. They are matters of faith, and all the guy was saying is that they are two separate ideas, although often mistaken for each other even by many Catholics.
shareWow, I'm a Catholic and I had completely forgotten that "Immaculate conception" referred to Mary's conception, not Jesus'. Interesting discussion.
Shame: You big sissy, you couldn't drive nails in a snow bank.
Batman: Why would I want to?
<there is a common misconception that "immaculate conception" deals with the virgin birth of Christ when in fact it actually refers to the Virgin Mary being born without original sin.>
Thank you. It's rare these days to find people who understand enough (or remember enough) about Catholicism to know that the two things are entirely different. Was I the only one paying attention in religion class?
I'm impressed, and I mean that without sarcasm.
The smartest people I ever met have been the ones who knew how much they don't know.
That doesn't prevent me from shooting my mouth off on occasion. But it's true all the same.
I don't know who impregnated Agnes, but I don't know why she got the stigmata either.
God save Donald Duck, vaudeville and variety
I'm actually a born and raised Buddhist, but that doesn't stop me from actually taking a human interest in in the world around me, and attempting to acquire some knowledge on subjects before opening my mouth.
Actually, being Buddhist kind of lends itself to paying attention, so you should be praised for that.
**Skin that Smokewagon and see what happens!** Tombstone share
Lately, I've had the idea that Agnes' sheets were bloodstained from the stigmata she had that night. She talks about "being punished" when she has the stigmata earlier (in the "I'm getting too fat" scene), then says "I don't know why I should be punished" when she explains why she burned the sheets.
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I'm curious, though, if she really believed it was God's child, why did she kill it (send it back to him)?
Remember when she spoke with Dr. Livingston, and she told her that she believed that only 'bad babies' came out 'down there'....? (And also that she wasn't sure where good babies came out?) She also told the Dr. and Mother Miriam (during the last hypnotizing session) that she thought the baby was a mistake (possibly because it was 'bad' because it 'came out down there').
Perhaps she thought the baby was God's, but then felt that there had been some kind of mistake, because the baby had come from the 'wrong place,' where only bad babies come from. Being that she may have believed that, she may have believed that she was doing the right thing by sending God the baby back. share
I haven't seen 100% of the movie, but this point is explained in the play. She killed the baby because she thought God had made a mistake, she was afraid of babies, and because she hated God for what he did to her.
Your husband has demanded that we sleep together.
Well, I just the play and the movie today...i think most of the consept is that Agnes got pregnant, not how she got pregnant or who she got pregnant with, but a nun got pregnant. She most likely went out of the town and met a guy. It really dosen't say who, it only says that she was confused about the whole thing.
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I'm curious, though, if she really believed it was God's child, why did she kill it (send it back to him)?
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In my opinion she murdered her baby in the same way her own mother "murdered" her. All this was unconscious though, she swallowed her anger toward her mother because it was unacceptable, the anger plus her delusional state eventually rose to the top.
As to why Agnes killed God's child. Agnes too was "God's child" and no one protected her from the murder of her soul. An unprotected/abused child feels three main things in life, anger, fear and confusion, and Agnes never really left that child state. I also believe that Agnes "sent" the child back to God because she did not feel worthy of keeping him. Her mother reminded her often enough that she was, fat, ugly and stupid and a mistake, therefore defective.
This film/play is based on a similar but true incident about Sister Maureen, a nun/teacher in NY State during the 1970s. Sister Maureen denied giving birth and was found innocent by reason of insanity.
Great film, even better play, even sadder story. It reflects a lot of the worst in society.
"Anyone who tells a lie has not a pure heart, and cannot make a good soup." Ludwig Van Beethoven
There are nine documented virgin births on record
And what planet do you live on?
**Skin that Smokewagon and see what happens!** Tombstone share
I always assumed it was supposed to have been Michael, at least that's the way they portray it in the film. That's what the dying nun mouths to Agnes on her death bed, when Agnes disappears and is impregnated.
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Who is Michael? I just watched this movie and don't remember him. The only man I remember, besides the people Martha worked with, is the old priest.
Tomorrow's just your future yesterday!
"Michael" was actually meant to refer to the statue of St. Michael, which is where the hidden passage way was that Agnes took to the stables.
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