Lynn Minmei - horrible brat or misunderstood?
What say you, the fans - is Minmei as horrible everyone makes her out to be or is she made out to be worse than she really is?
shareWhat say you, the fans - is Minmei as horrible everyone makes her out to be or is she made out to be worse than she really is?
shareWhen I first read the novels and watched the series back in high school I didn't think Minmei was that bad. She seemed a bit immature, even to a fellow teenager, but that's to be expected from a young civilian girl I suppose. She looks particularly bad as her story is juxtaposed against a rather unflinching look at war and a lot of brave characters who are fighting for the future of humanity. But re-reading the First Gen novels a few years ago and revisiting the cartoon, pheeew, she's worse than I remember. Particularly once she begins to fancy herself a pop star. Her character is initially beguiling, but she quickly becomes like nails on a chalkboard to me.
I suppose you really do need to try and get down to her level to truly sympathize with her.
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A journey into the realm of the obscure: http://saturdayshowcase.blogspot.com/
When I first read the novels and watched the series back in high school I didn't think Minmei was that bad. She seemed a bit immature, even to a fellow teenager, but that's to be expected from a young civilian girl I suppose. She looks particularly bad as her story is juxtaposed against a rather unflinching look at war and a lot of brave characters who are fighting for the future of humanity. But re-reading the First Gen novels a few years ago and revisiting the cartoon, pheeew, she's worse than I remember. Particularly once she begins to fancy herself a pop star. Her character is initially beguiling, but she quickly becomes like nails on a chalkboard to me.
I suppose you really do need to try and get down to her level to truly sympathize with her.
Playing devil's advocate for a sec, you could say that--diva behavior aside--Lynn plays an important role in helping the people of Macross deal with the ever looming threat of attack by giving them some normalcy and by keeping their minds off of their troubles, if only for a while. That's always been the case with the entertainment industry in times of war or strife; at least since the 20th century.
And I suppose her behavior is key to the maturation of Rick Hunter, who is initially smitten with her in no small part because she's pretty.
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A journey into the realm of the obscure: http://saturdayshowcase.blogspot.com/
Playing devil's advocate for a sec, you could say that--diva behavior aside--Lynn plays an important role in helping the people of Macross deal with the ever looming threat of attack by giving them some normalcy and by keeping their minds off of their troubles, if only for a while. That's always been the case with the entertainment industry in times of war or strife; at least since the 20th century.
And I suppose her behavior is key to the maturation of Rick Hunter, who is initially smitten with her in no small part because she's pretty.
Yeah, that angle w/Rick, Minmei and Lisa got old fast. It's a slippery slope that many shows have gone down (The "Will they or won't they" or love triangle). But it was certainly unique for a cartoon. Perhaps not in anime, but it was not something American audiences were used to seeing in cartoons. Same with the serialized storylines.
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A journey into the realm of the obscure: http://saturdayshowcase.blogspot.com/
Yeah, that angle w/Rick, Minmei and Lisa got old fast. It's a slippery slope that many shows have gone down (The "Will they or won't they" or love triangle).
But it was certainly unique for a cartoon. Perhaps not in anime, but it was not something American audiences were used to seeing in cartoons. Same with the serialized storylines.
Yeah, it seems that a lot of writers fall into this pattern where the chase = courtship and the hook up = marriage & then they either just sort of ignore the rest of the relationship's growth or spend so much time digging up pointless drama that they forget to show the couple actually enjoying each other's company.
The triangle probably did look more unique back when the series first aired, today, well, yeah, it looks a little clunky in execution.
What say you, the fans - is Minmei as horrible everyone makes her out to be or is she made out to be worse than she really is?
That's the root of it I suppose - other characters are fighting for humanity's future and she fusses over her pop star life, and that makes her look bad by comparison. Her two best moments were probably when she called out Kyle for his own ingratitude towards the folks who were either trying to accommodate them or straight up saved their lives ("Reconstruction Blues", "Brokenheart") before the tables turn and he's given a chance to chastise her for diva behavior.
Playing devil's advocate for a sec, you could say that--diva behavior aside--Lynn plays an important role in helping the people of Macross deal with the ever looming threat of attack by giving them some normalcy and by keeping their minds off of their troubles, if only for a while. That's always been the case with the entertainment industry in times of war or strife; at least since the 20th century.
And I suppose her behavior is key to the maturation of Rick Hunter, who is initially smitten with her in no small part because she's pretty
I certainly don't deny either (even though it was annoying as all get out that the "when will Rick grow up & realize Minmei's not right for him" angle just would not end) so much as these aspects tend to be overlooked in favor of things like, well, her aforementioned diva behavior, her voice, one particular song getting used too much, etc.
Yeah, I can see that. She did provide some semblance of normalcy in a time of strife. She also provided those aboard Macross with a sense of honor. Unfortunately, she is still a zero as a person and I still feel that the only reason that she did any of that was to further propel her agenda of being a celebrity.
That's the only reason. I have been in almost the exact same situation and in hindsight I want to beat the crap out of my younger self. What a dumbass I was. I can't even feel sympathy for myself and Rick Hunter. We both (being complete dumbasses)got what we deserved. Unfortunately, he is fictional and I am not. So, I guess I am an even bigger dumbass. GO ME!
Just a recommendation to anyone who reads this if you watched Cannon films (which ironically the Robotech movie was released through)as a child then check out "Electric Boogaloo The Wild Untold Story Of Cannon films". It is currently on sale through Amazon.com for five bucks and it is worth every cent.
Exactly. It's almost like they view them getting together as the end rather than the beginning.
The "Will they or won't they?" is a pretty compelling hook, but it can only be stretched so far before it snaps. I don't know why so many writers/studios feel getting people together is a death knell. Particularly in a TV series or long running franchise.
I was always thankful that with Star Wars they saved the will they/won't they for the second film in each trilogy. And in a rare instance where the PT actually handled something better, where the Han/Leia relationship was sorta dropped in ROTJ until the irritating mix up between Han, Luke and Leia, in the PT they got together at the end of the second and film and then that served as the basis of the entire plot of the finale where it all came to a tragic end.
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A journey into the realm of the obscure: http://saturdayshowcase.blogspot.com/
The "Will they or won't they?" is a pretty compelling hook, but it can only be stretched so far before it snaps. I don't know why so many writers/studios feel getting people together is a death knell. Particularly in a TV series or long running franchise.
I was always thankful that with Star Wars they saved the will they/won't they for the second film in each trilogy. And in a rare instance where the PT actually handled something better, where the Han/Leia relationship was sorta dropped in ROTJ until the irritating mix up between Han, Luke and Leia, in the PT they got together at the end of the second and film and then that served as the basis of the entire plot of the finale where it all came to a tragic end.
That could be said of many plot tropes, but it seems especially true of "will they or won't they?"
But Luke, Han & Leia were genuinely likable characters where Anakin & Padme weren't. ;)
Wow, we're actually very off topic now, aren't we?
I was always thankful that with Star Wars they saved the will they/won't they for the second film in each trilogy. And in a rare instance where the PT actually handled something better, where the Han/Leia relationship was sorta dropped in ROTJ until the irritating mix up between Han, Luke and Leia, in the PT they got together at the end of the second and film and then that served as the basis of the entire plot of the finale where it all came to a tragic end.
But Luke, Han & Leia were genuinely likable characters where Anakin & Padme weren't. ;)
Wow, we're actually very off topic now, aren't we?
Thanks for starting this thread. I wish this board were more alive. It's one of the few cartoons that I still watch from time to time. I guess that that say's a lot about the quality of the writing.
If I can venture back on track for a moment. When I was a young tyke watching this show I loved Minmei. I wanted Rick to end up with her. I couldn't stand Lisa. I hated her. She reminded me of one of my school teachers or something close to that.
Unfortunately, I never did get to see who Rick wound up with as those episodes aired in my area over Christmas break (when I wasn't getting up at 6:00 am). By the time that the break had ended the show was up to the next series (The Masters). Well, I watched a few episodes and I hated it. So, I stopped watching the series for a few months. When I finally did tuned in the show was up to the third part (New Generation) and while I thought that it was a lot better than Dana and company it was so different from what came before that I was completely lost. As a result I didn't find out who Rick wound up with until sometime in the 1990s when Cartoon Network began airing episodes. When I finally got to see the series again I hated Minmei and I liked Lisa. I remember thinking to myself why does this jerk (Rick) like that little brat so much.
I also liked Miriya. She was the type of girl who would beat the crap out of you and if you survived she'd take you to bed. Hell, I even thought that the Bridge Bunnies topped Minmei! After all a group of girls who wound up sleeping with aliens can't be all bad.
@Enigmatic-Ocean
I had to scroll up to see if I had written your post!
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I never thought she was that bad. Not at all. And in fact I sympathize a great deal with her character. She was spoiled and rather selfish, but that's very understandable, under the circumstances; and she never became a complete diva because of it.
At the start of the series, she's a very young girl of exceptional beauty and talent (bear with me: I'm going for what the writers of the show intended to portray, not necessarily what comes across on screen), but who is as shallow, self-centered and vain as teenagers typically are. But at the core, she's a basically nice, decent person. When Kyle, whom she has adored since childhood, reveals himself as a greedy, manipulative, bigoted drunk, she loses all affection for him. Contrary to his wishes, she wants to perform charity benefits for people whose lives are wrecked by Earth's destruction, and is willing to forego payment. When he (following his prejudices) whines that the military brought the Earth to its then-current state, she angrily corrects him, pointing out that the Earth was attacked, and Earth's military simply fought back. Underneath it all, she's a basically decent, good-hearted, level-heated person. I thought the show did a good job conveying this.
Early in the series, Rick Hunter falls hard for her, but at this point in her life, she has stars in her eyes, and all she can see is the fame and fortune that lies ahead of her. It's easy to condemn her for that, but how many people could resist the siren song of success if it stretched before them like that, especially when they were so young? Freud put the desire to feel important and achieve recognition from others as second only to the sex drive in human nature. If Minmei succumbs to this, its certainly understandable.
But as time rolls on, she finds (as so many celebrities doubtless have) that fame and success aren't all they're cracked up to be. Being famous means being recognized anywhere you go; but it also means being almost completely unable to have a private life. Being rich and famous means being adored by the public; but it also means being isolated and having few, if any, real friends, just sycophants and hangers-on. Being admired for your beauty and talent is wonderful; but it means that everyone loves the image they have of you, not who you really are yourself.
I thought the show did a pretty good job of showing how, once Minmei had made it, she yearned for the simpler, happier days before she was famous. And it was at this time she realized that in her quest for fame and glory, she'd overlooked what was really important in her life, and what she could have had if she'd only known at the time. It was a very sweet, innocent love, and if she'd only known at the time, she could have stretched out her hand and had this very good young man for the taking, but she was preoccupied with her career and didn't realize it. Rick Hunter fell in love with her before she was a star, and he fell in love with her. By the time she's grown up and realized she loves him too, it's too late. He's moved on. He's grown up and found someone else, with life experiences far closer to his own, with whom he can identify far more easily, and who has come to mean more to him, and Minmei is left behind. To her credit, she even realizes this, and wishes them well, at the end. She's grown up enough to see her situation realistically.
I didn't think she was that bad at all.
I recently watched Robotech: The Macross Saga again, and while I haven't watched all of Super Dimension Fortress Macross, Minmei is more sympathetic and less annoying in the Japanese episodes I've seen. By the end of the Japanese version of Macross, Minmei seems to really love Hikaru (a.k.a. Rick), but she realizes that their lives are on different paths. She finally grows up and lets him go so he can be with Misa (a.k.a. Lisa) and continue serving in the military. It's quite touching and bittersweet. Minmei's dialogue was changed for her final scene in Robotech, and it makes the ending less poignant. Minmei doesn't seem as sad and regretful about losing Rick. Instead she asks Rick to forgive her because she didn't really want to get married and give up her music career. I wonder if the changes to the script were made so that viewers wouldn't be upset that Rick chose Lisa over Minmei, but it ended up making Minmei look bad for stringing Rick along. Minmei's voice acting and singing was also a lot better in the Japanese version.
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