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Did Kyle Reese change John Connor's parentage? And did Terminator change who created Skynet?

posted 3 years ago by MickyMac (2943)
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Coming back in time Kyle Reese could've made himself John Conner's new father and Terminator could've made judgement day happened so early due to it's remains being found, the original father of John Connor could've been one of the guys who stood up Sarah and the original development of Skynet could've happened around now, it's possible that the first film happened a number times times like everytime someone goes back in time there are different outcomes.

[–] peter_t_2k3 (957) 3 years ago

I've always been under the impression that Kyle Reese was always John's dad, and probably John realises this at some point and so sends him back to basically ensure he is born.

However what is interesting is as you mentioned, the terminator going back, also becomes part of events/history, by being found by Cyberdyne, who in turn reverse engineer the chip and create skynet, thus helping to create the future.

So the question is if Reece wasn't sent back, what would have happened? By not sending Reece, John cannot be born, so the future has no resistance leader. However the only reason the terminator was sent back was to stop John being born, so theoretically the terminator couldn't be sent back, as John no longer exists. But by the terminator having no reason to be sent into the past it cannot be left and reverse engineered, and thus skynet could never be created

[–] MickyMac (2943) 3 years ago

This YouTube video will explain it https://youtu.be/mFDa4VUnfuU

[–] peter_t_2k3 (957) 3 years ago

Sorry for the late reply - I get the theory but from what I remember hearing, Kyle Reese was always supposed to be the dad.

It's complicated because the theory makes sense - the closed loop doesn't have start point, but that's why it's a loop and paradox. The terminator for example finds medical information on Sarah which it uses to track her, but that's the information obtained when hospitalised from the terminator.

The video points out that Cyberdyne speed up things but I think it created the terminator - That's the paradox, because if the terminator wasn't left behind, it wouldn't be created.

Like the little cartoon clip in the video states - if the terminator succeeded in killing John Connor, then this causes a problem because the terminator shouldn't be in the past because it wouldn't have had a reason to be sent into the past if you get me. If you go back in time to kill someone, the problem is you then have no reason to have went back in time.

I should note we are products of both our parents and our surroundings. Surely if Kyle wasn't the original dad, by becoming the dad in another timeline it risks everything changing because John Connor wouldn't be the same person. You could teach him but I don't think it's as simple as that

[–] Mulletor (520) 3 years ago

But then you can break it down even further than the specific sperm/ova gene set is what would make the John Connor that exists in the movie universe.

Edit for wise ass comment addition: If Kyle Reese cums a second later or the sperm travels out of the opposite nut it did the first time we end up with a movie about Joanne Connor instead.

[–] peter_t_2k3 (957) 3 years ago

The best example I can think of paradox wise is day of the daleks, a 3rd doctor classic doctor who serial.

It had soldiers coming from the future trying to kill someone hosting a peace conference. The soldiers came from a future where the daleks had invaded Earth and found books which stated the peace conference was wear it all started as it blew up and this lead to unrest which the daleks used to their advantage.

They decide the one doing the conference must be the culprit but near the end of the episode they notice one of their members is missing and the doctor realises he is the culprit, by trying to stop the future they'd actually been the one who caused it.

The problem is how did that future ever exist? There is no logical start point as the soldier had to kill the person to create the future but he also only exists because he killed that person and created the future.

I get it's good to get things explained in a way that seems logical but you can't really do that with a paradox

[–] MadCopperKazoo (3) 3 years ago

I believe that Cyberdyne systems creating the Terminator was inevitable. But finding those components sped up the process significantly.

And about John Conner, my theory is that John Conner indeed had an original father. But then he met Kyle Reese and liked his hair so he sent Kyle back to impregnate his mother and then John would get a similar less greasy hair. So in turn he also could've sent the taller soldier back and then he would've grown taller. Or he could've sent an ethnic soldier back and then turn into a halfie.

[–] MickyMac (2943) 3 years ago

Perhaps the original Skynet was made in Japan.

[–] Forky (1739) 3 years ago

No. And no.

[–] avortac4 (3452) 3 years ago

Connor. Not Conner.

Try to at least get the simple names right, geez.

[–] mcp7 (142) 3 years ago

T1 is a predestination paradox. Nothing "changes" and there aren't "original" versions.

[–] MickyMac (2943) 3 years ago

If it's a predestination paradox then blowing up Cyderdyne in T2 shouldn't be happening.

[–] mcp7 (142) 3 years ago

I didn't say anything about T2.

[–] MickyMac (2943) 3 years ago

Well it shows the future is not set.

[–] peter_t_2k3 (957) 3 years ago

Yeah T2/T3 does complicate the idea a bit.

I presume the plan might have been to close the loop in T2 and end the series e.g. destroy cyberdyne to stop the future although this could complicate stuff even more as John Connor then technically shouldn't exist as reeve has no reason to travel back in time.

While I've only seen salvation once and wasn't keen from what I remember it did seem to fit the timeline in general e.g. reece still goes back

[–] MickyMac (2943) 3 years ago

Every sequel after T2 was an easy buck recognition off the name.

[–] avortac4 (3452) 3 years ago

Why is a simple thing so difficult to grasp for some people?

No one CHANGED anything. There's no 'original timeline' where things happened differently. This movie utilizes the Bootstrap Paradox, and does it almost flawlessly.

The whole time travel thing doesn't CHANGE anything, for all intents and purposes, it's perfectly linear for ALL the characters in this movie. No one goes for any loop, no one changes anything, nothing gets displaced or replaced.

You can think of 1984 and 2029 as physical locations for all difference it's going to make.

The only thing that can be thought of being confusing is John Connor's and Kyle Reese's interactions and the consequences of those interactions, but that's all. Kyle Reese was always John Connor's father. Also, 'parentage'? Come on. Did you write this post just so you could use that word?

What REALLY happened, was Skynet actually MADE SURE humans would win the war. Skynet basically created John Connor by sending the terminator to the past so humans would send Kyle to impregnate Sarah so she would give birth to John.

If Skynet hadn't send the terminator (better yet, not even built a time machine), the humans wouldn't have sent Kyle, so John wouldn't have been born, so humans couldn't have won the war. The only way Skynet could've made sure that the machines win the war, is to NOT send the terminator.

Who created Skynet is irrelevant, but it was always the same people, it was always the same Skynet, there's no paradox, nothing gets changed, everything is AS LINEAR AS CAN BE.

And don't even bother mentioning any other movies, they basically mutilate everything and dumb down the whole thing while copying this movie's plot in a soulless and kid-friendly way.