MovieChat Forums > The Terminator (1984) Discussion > Time paradox is the real reason for this...

Time paradox is the real reason for this series

posted 5 years ago by Heisenberg (6310)
22 replies | jump to latest

Has anybody ever thought that the time paradox in the movie (Terminator, Kyle and the picture of Sarah coming back in time and creating it) is the real reason why all this happens? Not just travel, I'm talking about just the impossible to happen paradox.
If you think about it, the leader and saviour of humanity is their son, and he is in such a position exactly because of the time paradox (1 he is super skilled and trained by her mom because of this, and because of this he can save everybody; 2 he is hunted because of this, and because he is hunted pre birth he is actually conceived).
So John Connor is son of this paradox.
But so is skynet: Dyson gets going because of the parts of the terminator.
So the two main anthagonists are both sons of the paradox, who's creating and feeding this time loop.
So, the time paradox is the real fulcrum for this whole series to exist, not time travel, not sentient computers, not robots, not john connor.
It's all about THE PARADOX !

[–] mcp7 (142) 5 years ago

Of course, it's the classic bootstrap paradox, and perfectly done in this movie. Too bad they messed up and changed the time travel rules with the sequels.

[–] Heisenberg (6310) 5 years ago

Yes, but I mean, the paradox is why all this mess happens.
If they just travelled in time with no paradox (like in Back to the future), there would be no terminator universe.
Like for instance, the terminator is sent back to kill John. He succeeds in his mission and never gets destroyed. There would be no skynet!
Or, he gets completely melted. There would be no skynet.
Or, Kyle dies before screwing. There would be no John.
This whole scenario, skynet vs JC, is possible only because this paradox exists.

[–] wearsalan (5554) 5 years ago

Seeing as John was already in 2029, how about Kyle just changed who his father was?

[–] Heisenberg (6310) 5 years ago

That doesn't make any sense.
John is Kyle's son, there never was another father as the picture with Sarah that John gives Kyle proves: John sent him in time with a clear idea in mind, it's not a random choice. See Sarah's tape at the end.

[–] wearsalan (5554) 5 years ago

It makes perfect sense. The picture is of Sarah, not Kyle. The tape we see Sarah making is from after Kyle has been and is now Johns father.
Kyle goes back in time and changes things by becoming Johns father.
Cyberdine obtains the wrecked Terminator and by the time 2029 (altered timeline) comes around a T1000 now exists to be also sent back in time. In the original timeline the 101 was the latest thing, Kyle even says so.
Terminator and T2 even suggests that the future can be changed as nothing is set.

If it was always meant to be, then how can it changed in T2? Why does Kyle say one 'possible' future.

[–] Heisenberg (6310) 5 years ago

No, the timeline you describe doesn't exist.
John is Kyle's son. Otherwise, by sending him back in time and making him the alternate father, we would have a different John Connor. One that might NOT be the saviour. So that's already backfiring.
Instead, John KNOWS who's his father and sends him back in time to create him (hence the paradox).
Your timeline works if you don't consider the actual proof we have: Sarah's picture.
We see when it was actually taken and in what circumstances. We know what she was thinking.
That's the EXACT same picture Kyle brings back.
There is no "alternate exact picture" where Sarah looks exactly the same but she's actually thinking about her laundry after going for a picninc, or whatever alternative scenario. That picture was taken there, when she was pregnant, driving away in the desert, thinking of Kyle.
Same thing for Skynet: it's created because of the terminator sent back in time, otherwise it would not exists.
I know it doesn't make sense, it's a paradox.
But that's the real reason for this whole universe to exist: the time paradox creating these two antagonists.

[–] wearsalan (5554) 5 years ago

No, the timeline you describe doesn't exist
Do you mean like the 1984 that Kyle was meant to go to in Genesys no longer exists because a Terminator was sent even further back in time.
John is Kyle's son. Otherwise, by sending him back in time and making him the alternate father, we would have a different John Connor. One that might NOT be the saviour. So that's already backfiring.
How so, he's still brought up by the legendary Sarah connor.
Instead, John KNOWS who's his father and sends him back in time to create him (hence the paradox).
That's odd because Sarah wonders if she should tell John about Kyle as it may affect his decision to send him. If it is meant to happen (ie the future is not set isn't true) then she most definitely should tell him.
Your timeline works if you don't consider the actual proof we have: Sarah's picture.
Would this be the picture that gets destroyed with the Terminator attack on the resistance base in the first movie, but Kyle still has i the night he goes back in Gensys? Time has already been altered.
Your timeline works if you don't consider the actual proof we have: Sarah's picture.
That's the EXACT same picture Kyle brings back.
Except he doesn't bring it back does he?
There is no "alternate exact picture" where Sarah looks exactly the same but she's actually thinking about her laundry after going for a picninc, or whatever alternative scenario. That picture was taken there, when she was pregnant, driving away in the desert, thinking of Kyle.
And yet when Kyle arrives from 2029 in Genesys (where he somehow still had that picture despite us originally being shown it destroyed) things go differently but somehow Kyle still had that picture which now can surely no longer exist unless he's from an alternate timeline (or one possible future as he himself put it).

[–] wearsalan (5554) 5 years ago

Same thing for Skynet: it's created because of the terminator sent back in time, otherwise it would not exists.
I know it doesn't make sense, it's a paradox.
Again, Miles Dyson himself (in T2) says that the chip just helped them get there quicker. Despite Dyson death Skynet still exists.
I know it doesn't make sense, it's a paradox.
But that's the real reason for this whole universe to exist: the time paradox creating these two antagonists.
It makes little sense either way you look at it. If you look at the first movie and only the first movie, the paradox appears to work fine. Bring in the sequels though and the pre-destination paradox is rfeplaced with alternate timelines.

[–] Heisenberg (6310) 5 years ago

Well, I guess the paradox works with the James Cameron movies, not the other sequels.

[–] wearsalan (5554) 5 years ago

Again it doesn't as Cameron changed the rules himself for T2.
For me, if the Terminator was a stand alone movie the paradox works. as soon as T2 is included the paradox fails.
Over the years people have blamed T3 for changing (and ruining) this theory, but it all started with T2.

[–] GreenGoblinsOck8 (7401) 5 years ago

I don't see it that way. Also people complain the T-1000 being liquid metal breaks the rules of the time travel but it must have been mimicking human flesh since it came through naked. If it didn't need to mimic human flesh then why does it come through naked? Heck, if it turns out you don't need to be organic to go through why not give the T-1000 a futuristic weapon? Heck, the same goes for the Terminator in this movie. No way John doesn't give that Terminator he sent through a futuristic weapon to go through with if the nothing dead goes rule isn't valid in that movie.

[–] wearsalan (5554) 5 years ago

It has nothing to do with human flesh. It is to do with the field generated by living things, hence no clothes or weapons.
But that in itself is not the only way Cameron changed things. He had them being able to change the future, which does not work f it is a pre-destination paradox.

[–] kwestmo (4114) 5 years ago

"perfectly done in this movie. Too bad they messed up and changed the time travel rules with the sequels."

Agreed

[–] TandyMan (10358) 5 years ago

Yes. In a fan-film concept I whipped up years ago, they had to go all the way back to the assassination of Lincoln. To void out the paradox and completely set humanity on a new course. Which resulted in Steampunk culture. But there was a sort of Doctor Who theme where the paradox of Terminator Earth was the downfall of the whole universe. In the end, all of future had to be erased.

[–] mostfa (4) 5 years ago

What can i say? Fate works in strange ways.
And its "antagonists" and not "anthagonists"

[–] crc32 (2584) 5 years ago

That's not a paradox. That's just a causality loop. The writers introduced it at the end of the movie thinking it would be a novel idea for the audience and leave them wowed at the ending. Most sci fi buffs at the time were aware of it already.

[–] Heisenberg (6310) 5 years ago

Yes I know that it was "new" then and that it was not really new at all.
Ok maybe causality loop is a better term, but this causality loop is a paradox.

[–] mcp7 (142) 5 years ago

A causal loop is a paradox by definition.

[–] crc32 (2584) 5 years ago

A paradox is something thats impossible. It would suprise you to know that effect can preceed apparent cause in particle physics. Its been observed before so how can it be an impossibility. And a causality loop isn't a cyclic loop like a racxe tract that gets stuck repeating forever its just a line that happens to take a detour into the past then moves forward into the future beyond the point where it turned around.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Roller_coaster_vertical_loop.ogv

[–] avortac4 (3449) 3 years ago

"A causal loop" would be more akin to what happens in 'Somewhere in Time', where each of the protagonists get the watch from each other, so it can never be actually created or manufactured or fabricated. They just somehow get it from each other, and no one actually makes that watch.. now, THAT is a paradox.

Explain _WHAT_ about "The Terminator (1984)" has this same kind of 'impossible paradox' thing, or retract your statement and apologize, if you want to be honest and honorable, at least.

[–] Heisenberg (6310) 4 years ago

Bumpity

[–] avortac4 (3449) 3 years ago

This is not a series, it's a movie.

There is no time paradox. This movie utilizes something called 'The Bootstrap Paradox', but despite the name, it's not REALLY a paradox. This is one of the rare time travel movies that do not have any flaws or paradoxes about the time travel portions.

Don't mention other movies here, this is about 'The Terminator (1984)', and this movie is flawless, when it comes to the time-travel stuff. Whip any other movie into shepe as much as you want, but not this one.

THERE IS NO PARADOX!