Jobeth Williams is an attorney, say she gets out of school at 22, does law school, let's say she's 25 when she finishes. A few years in practice, she files the suit against the school so let's say she's 28. Nolte is her former teacher, he's 7 years older than her. Great casting.
She looks great in this movie, by the way.
dkgambler wrote: <<Jobeth Williams is an attorney, say she gets out of school at 22, does law school, let's say she's 25 when she finishes. A few years in practice, she files the suit against the school so let's say she's 28. Nolte is her former teacher, he's 7 years older than her. Great casting.>>
There's nothing wrong with the casting at all. I know some teachers who started teaching when they were 20. That would make them 7 years older than a 13 year old freshman. I don't think we know what grade Williams's character was in when she had Alex. If she were 17 and he were 24, well, I've seen that's how it is in many schools.
Heck, one of those 20 year old teachers I knew was only 4 months older than one of her students.
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ferri07501 wrote: <<What teacher gets a degree at 20?>>
Didn't I already explain this? Okay -- here we go again. The person I knew graduated at 17. This person then finished college in 3 years because of all the credit she had from the many, many AP exams she had aced. Once she graduated, she was hired as a teacher. It's not that hard to figure out.
ferri07501 wrote: <<You graduate high school at 17 or 18. To earn a college degree takes at least 4 or 5 years.>>
Not always. I know many people who started college as sophomores. AP credit can be great.
ferri07501 wrote: <<Then you have to pass state exams which are only offered a few times a year.>>
I can't remember what this young woman did -- she probably took them over the summer. The LAST and ATSW exams are a joke, anyway. The CST is more challenging -- we are talking about New York, btw.
ferri07501 wrote: <<Then you have to actually find a job.>>
That was a piece of cake for this young woman. There was someone who wanted to hire her. Even if there weren't, it would not have been hard for her to find a job.
ferri07501 wrote: <<Realistically, 23 or 24 would be the earliest one could realistically become a teacher.>>
Clearly, you are mistaken. Do you have what it takes to admit it? For some reason, I doubt it.
ferri07501 wrote: <<Maybe 22 if they really hustled their course load in college. But no way 20, unless they were Doogie Howser or something.>>
This young woman is not the only person I know who finished college at 20, thanks to a combination of AP exam credit and graduating high school at 17.
ferri07501 wrote: <<And high school freshman are not 13.>>
Sometimes they are. It depends when their birthday is. It, of course, may also depend on whether they skipped a grade when they were younger.
ferri07501 wrote: <<Most enter high the year they go from 14 to 15.>>
Not everyone does. The birthday thing may differ from state to state.
ferri07501 wrote: <<I do agree though that if he were a 1st year teacher at 24 and taught 17-18 year old seniors, she could've been his student that 1st or 2nd year.>>
Listen, the question is, do you see how a person could start teaching at 20? I have given you an example. And you really should TRUST me on this one. I know her VERY WELL. She was 20 and teaching and everything I have told you about her is true.
I have shown you how it's possible. So, believe me or not -- it's up to you.
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ferri07501 wrote: <<See now this is where you are changing your story. You said:
I wrote: "I know some teachers who started teaching when they were 20" You said you knew teachers and that they were 20. Now you talking about one specific teacher.>>
Hah! I KNEW it! I knew you didn't have the emotional strength to admit you were wrong! I haven't changed my story. I have been telling you what happened.
Now, quote me correctly. This is what I wrote: I know some teachers who started teaching when they were 20. That would make them 7 years older than a 13 year old freshman. I don't think we know what grade Williams's character was in when she had Alex. If she were 17 and he were 24, well, I've seen that's how it is in many schools.
Heck, one of those 20 year old teachers I knew was only 4 months older than one of her students.
Since then I have been talking about the example I know best. That's why I gave it. YOU were saying it was IMPOSSIBLE. You wrote: <<Realistically, 23 or 24 would be the earliest one could realistically become a teacher. Maybe 22 if they really hustled their course load in college. But no way 20, unless they were Doogie Howser or something.>>
[b]Note the argument -- You are saying it is IMPOSSIBLE. That is what you meant when you wrote <<But no way 20, unless they were Doogie Howser or something.>> There is no other way to interpret that. We are not talking about Doogie Howsers here. We are talking about a smart young person (the story I know best -- but not the only 20 year old teacher I knew) with a birthday that placed her in HS at 13 who aced a bunch of APs and started college as a sophomore. There was no need for her to "hustle her course load." Smart -- not Doogie Howser. I am showing you that it IS possible for this to happen, although you said it wasn't with your comment <<But no way 20.>> That's the argument here -- possible v. impossible, not common v. uncommon. FWIW, I can think of a guy I know who I believe started at 20 (I know him pretty well, but can't remember his story) and some others at 20 or 21, but I don't know their stories.
ferri07501 wrote: <<There is a definite difference between teacher(singular) and teachers(plural). Could there be very few cases like this? Of course there can. Is this a commn thing? No, it isn't.>>
Again, we are not discussing whether or not it is common. We are discussing whether or not it is is possible. It is. We actually are discussing, at this point, whether or not THIS HAPPENED. It did. You are implying that I am making this up (that's offensive -- but not surprising -- you would rather have me be a liar than admit you are wrong) and that it never happened (that is where all your hedging with "It's possible" comes in, along at your attempts at refuting what I tell you is or was DOE policy).
I wrote: <<"I can't remember what this young woman did -- she probably took them over the summer. The LAST and ATSW exams are a joke, anyway. The CST is more challenging -- we are talking about New York, btw.">>
ferri07501 wrote: <<There is a problem with this. If she did indeed take it over the summer, it takes several months to get the results.>>
Look at you refuting again -- and you don't know what you are talking about. It's true that it does take time to get the results. As I said, I can't remember how this worked for the young woman we are discussing. NYC keeps changing the rules regarding what it takes to get a teaching license. People used to be able to start teaching if they had finished college -- that's it. They didn't have to get their master's for 5 years. They didn't even need all their Ed credits. And they didn't need to have passed (or even taken) the tests. They could get a long-term sub license called a PPT, but that made them a regular teacher, at a regular school, with a regular classes and everything. They got regular pay and benefits. They were indistinguishable from teachers with CPTs (you might take time here to reflect that I KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT). Anyway, those teachers could take the LAST and the ATSW and the CST WHILE TEACHING. They were already teachers. When the Teaching Fellows thing came in, I think (I am not sure) that teachers could start teaching without having taken the exams -- but I can't be positive about that.
ferri07501 wrote: <<She would not be able to be hired for the upcoming school year as you cannot get hired until you get your results.>>
What state are you in? I am talking about NYC and TRUST ME -- I know what I am talking about. This young lady was hired in September. She was twenty. Listen -- I am sure other people reading this can see pretty plainly something you can't -- I know what I am talking about and I know who I am talking about. Furthermore, you have some problem that makes you incapable of admitting you are wrong. That is a dreadful quality for anyone to have -- but especially for a teacher. Don't go into teaching.
ferri07501 wrote: <<So at the earliest, she wouldn't be able to get hired until the winter, where getting a job is much harder and usually only going to happen if you get a maternity leave position. And whether or not the test is a joke or not, which it isn't, is irrelevant. Pass or fail, results still take several months to come by.>>
Again, test results -- not an issue. Not in NYC. They may be NOW, but they haven't always been, not even in recent history. In fact, if you take the LAST and ATSW and fail (and many do -- which is scary), you can STILL hold onto your license in NYC and take them again. Did you know that? Again, the may have changed recently, but I know it was true a couple of years ago -- and had been true for years before that.
I wrote: "It depends when their birthday is. It, of course, may also depend on whether they skipped a grade when they were younger"
ferri07501 wrote: <<Again, that is not the norm. Is it possible? Of course, but the majority of people do not skip grades.>>
What is your point? People having birthdays that place them in high school at 13 is pretty normal. You admit that having such a birthday or skipping grades is possible -- so, clearly, this scenario, about which I KNOW A LOT (you might want to ask yourself why) is possible. It's more than possible. It happened.
I wrote: <<"Listen, the question is, do you see how a person could start teaching at 20? I have given you an example. And you really should TRUST me on this one. I know her VERY WELL. She was 20 and teaching and everything I have told you about her is true.">>
ferri07501 wrote: <<Again, this example may very well be true.>>
Well done. You are admitting it might be true. That's progress. You're not there yet, but you're getting there. I am telling you it IS true and my knowledge of the DOE should show you I know what I am talking about.
ferri07501 wrote: <<But the fact is she would be the exception rather than the rule.>>
So what? We never were arguing about whether or not this was the exception or the rule. We were discussing whether or not this was possible -- and it is.
ferri07501 wrote: <<You may know this woman very well,>>
That's an understatement.
ferri07501 wrote: <<but I've been a teacher for the last 9 years.>>
Where? In New York? I am only talking about New York City.
ferri07501 wrote: <<I've worked in 3 different districts>>
Districts? Okay. Unless you are an elementary school teacher, you don't teach in NYC. Here's a piece of advice -- one of the most important things a teacher needs to be able to do is admit when he is wrong. The other is to apologize. It sets a good example and shows real strength.
ferri07501 wrote: <<and hold a Masters degree in Administration.>>
Figures. I like subject area master's. I have one, too. I have no idea why you think your master's degree qualifies you to judge whether or not what I am saying is true. Ed classes, on the whole, are terrible. Did you know you can get your administrative license in NYC without a master's degree in administration? Well, unless they changed the rules again, you could until very recently. You took some program that stopped 6 credits short of a master's -- and that program was enough to get you your admin license. Just fyi.
ferri07501 wrote: <<I have never met a teacher who started their career at 20. Again, this could indeed happen, but it would be very rare. I guess you'd have to trust ME on this one as I think I have much more experience with this than the ONE person you know who pulled this off. >>
Oh, I have way more time in education than you do. WAY more -- plus a long, long family history. The question was, "Could a teacher start a career at 20?" The answer is YES. The question was not whether or not it was common -- just whether or not it was possible. So, do you what it takes to admit that this happened, or is it easier for you to just keep believing, despite the mountains of evidence that I have produced, that I have just made this up? Tell me -- do you think my example is true or not? Your answer will say a lot about you.
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ferri07501 quoted me and said, <<""Your answer will say a lot about you">>
It's true. It will. And it does.
ferri07501 wrote: <<And your entire post here says a lot about you.>>
It does. It says I know what I am talking about.
ferri07501 wrote: <<You take offense whenever someone has a disagreement with you?>>
I think you are talking about yourself.
ferri07501 wrote: <<I didn't attack you personally.>>
Excuse me? You imply that I am lying, that I am making stuff up. That's a personal attack.
ferri07501 wrote: <<You on the other hand took it upon yourself to continually do just that in your post.>>
I admit I think you cannot admit when you are mistaken and I do not respect people who cannot do that.
ferri07501 wrote: <<Whenever you do that in a debate, you automatically lose credibility as you come off as a blow hard.>>
When you cannot admit you are wrong, you look weak. BTW, I notice you haven't answered my question -- do you think I am making this up, or do you think that I know a young woman (and possibly more people) who started teaching at 20? I know you're not going to answer the question.
I wrote: <<"Here's a piece of advice -- one of the most important things a teacher needs to be able to do is admit when he is wrong. The other is to apologize. It sets a good example and shows real strength.">>
ferri07501 wrote: <<Agreed. Maybe you should take your own advice there.>>
Oh, you don't agree with me -- not for yourself, anyway. As for taking my own advice, I have no problem admitting when I make a mistake. I amke tons. So, tell me, where did I make a mistake? Where was I wrong? I will admit it. Thus far, you have given me no reason to think I am wrong in believing that you cannot admit that I do know at least one person who started teaching at 20.
ferri07501 wrote: <<Again, where did I attack you personally?>>
Again, that would be when you implied I was lying.
ferri07501 wrote: <<Yet you felt the need to respond the way you did.>>
As did you. You aren't addressing ANYTHING I said (note the lack of quotes). You are just saying vague, bad things about me as you avoid answering the original question. I knew you'd do this.
ferri07501 wrote: <<That is a great example for your students. Disagree with me and I'll attack.>>
More insults! You are implying that I attack my students for disagreeing with me. Well, let's see -- I disagreed with you and you attacked me. I provided proof to show you were mistaken. That's not an attack. A person with a normal, healthy ego can handle that. ANYONE can disagree with me -- they just have to be able to back up their argument. You made an attempt, but my proof was stronger. No big deal -- except to you.
ferri07501 wrote: <<I encourage my students to disagree with me.>>
I doubt that. So...you ever going to answer the original question (no, you're not) or are you just going to keep insulting me by implying I am a bad teacher, etc.? I already know the answer.
ferri07501 wrote: <<I don't want them to take whatever I say at face value.>>
I don't want people to take what I say at face value -- that is why I provided a ton of proof to you -- proof you can't acknowledge because your ego just isn't strong enough. All you have to do is say, "Yeah -- you clearly know a person who started teaching at 20. It's clearly possible to do that in NYC." But you don't have what it takes to say that.
ferri07501 wrote: <<If you think I'm wrong, that is great.>>
You thought I was wrong and spent a lot of time trying to prove it. That's fine -- although it did imply that you thought I was lying. When I countered your arguments, you abandoned the original argument (because you lost and can't admit it) and just started attacking me. I have never been able to understand people like you.
ferri07501 wrote: <<Just back it up and we'll have a great debate.>>
I DID back it up. You have ignored everything I said.
ferri07501 wrote: <<I wouldn't want to do that in your class because apparently you're never wrong so why bother.>>
Oh, I'm wrong all the time. However, I am not lying about a 20 year old being able to teach in NYC. Have you heard of projecting? Do you realize that you are the one who can't admit s/he was wrong?
ferri07501 wrote: <<I wasn't hedging my bets when I said it was possible but unlikely. That is the truth.>>
[/b]Yep -- but that is NOT what you originally SAID. You said, <<Realistically, 23 or 24 would be the earliest one could realistically become a teacher. Maybe 22 if they really hustled their course load in college. But no way 20, unless they were Doogie Howser or something.>>[/b]
ferri07501 wrote: <<It is possible but also unlikely.>>
You switched to that, still never apologizing for implying I was lying, and never saying, "Hey. You're clearly telling the truth. You clearly know the DOE and its policies." That is what a gracious person would have done.
ferri07501 wrote: <<Would you agree with this or are you now going to say the majority of the teachers you know started their career at 20.>>
Don't change the game. That was never the question. Most people don't start their careers at anything at 20. However, it is possible to be a teacher in NYC at 20.
ferri07501 wrote: <<I was saying what you stated could happen but it wouldn't be common place.>>
Eventually. However, you started with saying (and I'll quote it again), <<Realistically, 23 or 24 would be the earliest one could realistically become a teacher. Maybe 22 if they really hustled their course load in college. But no way 20, unless they were Doogie Howser or something.>>
ferri07501 wrote: <<Instead of seeing anything that could be correct in my post, you just keep saying how I am wrong.>>
Wow! You project like no one else! Sure there are correct things in your post. It is not common to be a teacher at 20. I have no problem saying that. However, YOU do. You can't say anything was correct in any of my posts. People like you baffle me.
ferri07501 wrote: <<Yet you have the nerve to say I can't admit when I'm wrong. Pot calling the kettle black.>>
You can't admit you were wrong. You were and you can't admit it. Now, tell me where I was wrong and I will gladly admit it.
I wrote: <<"So, do you what it takes to admit that this happened, or is it easier for you to just keep believing, despite the mountains of evidence that I have produced, that I have just made this up? ">>
ferri07501 wrote: <<Mountains of evidence? Please point out where this "Evidence" is.>>
In my last post. You know, the post you didn't quote or address specifically in any way...the post you ignored. It had lots of technical stuff about the rules and regulations of the NYC DOE -- but please, continue to ignore it as if it doesn't exist.
ferri07501 wrote: <<What, because you say you know people?>>
Uh, no.
ferri07501 wrote: <<That is evidence to you?>>
No. My knowledge of the rules and regulations of the NYC DOE is evidence that you are pretending doesn't exist.
ferri07501 wrote: <<Apparently you don't even know the definition of evidence.>>
You can say that. It doesn't make it true. You are ignoring the existence of evidence.
ferri07501 wrote: <<You'd make a crummy lawyer.>>
Well, again, you can say that, but it doesn't make it true. It's also just another example of you throwing insults at me.
ferri07501 wrote: <<This is a message board. NOBODY here knows you.>>
Yeah, so? No one knows you either. What's your point?
ferri07501 wrote: <<Everything you said could very well be true. Or, it could all be a bunch of bs.>>
It's not that hard to google information about the NYC DOE, you know. Or do you think I made up the LAST and the ATSW and all the technical terms I used? Maybe you do -- because you might. I don't know.
ferri07501 wrote: <<There is no way to know which.>>
Yes, there is. It's called google.
ferri07501 wrote: <<Like people on IMDb haven't been known to talk shyt before?>>
Okay -- so this is your way of addressing the fact that I have provided solid proof -- you are saying that there is no way (when you know there is a way) to know if the solid proof I provided is accurate or not.
ferri07501 wrote: <<Fact of the matter is, just because you say it is true, doesn't mean it is.>>
You'd know all about that. But you can google my DOE info. You can find out if it's true.
ferri07501 wrote: <<And this goes for anybody who posts here.
Here is a piece of advice for you. If you can't take people having different views than you without getting personal in response,>>
Do you think you haven't gotten personal? Wait -- are you looking in a mirror as you write this?
ferri07501 wrote: <<you probably shouldn't post here.>>
Why shouldn't I post here? I can handle what you dish out. I can counter it and not mind when you sidestep everything and get personal.
ferri07501 wrote: << Many on IMDb do enjoy a good debate.>>
You don't. You can't handle a debate. You can't handle losing a little nothing matter like this.
ferri07501 wrote: <<Some, like yourself, can't seem to do that without feeling the need to attack. Really says a lot about you.>>
Well, I know a lot about you. You are so threatened by being proven wrong that you can't even be rational. Again, people like you baffle me -- and I'm glad. I guess my biggest flaw here is conversing with you -- I know you will never do the simple, gracious thing any person with self-confidence would have no problem doing -- you will never say, "Hey! You know your stuff and obviously a 20 year old can teach in NYC." You are still implying that I am lying because you can't admit you made a tiny mistake. That's really sad.
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ferri05701 wrote: <<Now its obvious you're just a troll.>>
No, it's not. Sorry, but saying you know a woman who started teaching at twenty does not a troll make.
ferri05701 wrote: <<Nobody could be as delusional and ridiculous without trying to just stir the pot.>>
What is <<delusional and ridiculous>> about saying I know a woman who started teaching at 20, or about discussing NYC DOE policies? Nothing. Now, you calling me delusional and ridiculous for doing so -- that's another story.
I wrote: "BTW, I notice you haven't answered my question -- do you think I am making this up, or do you think that I know a young woman (and possibly more people) who started teaching at 20? I know you're not going to answer the question."
ferri05701 wrote: <<Um...actually I did answer the question. I stated:
"Everything you said could very well be true. Or, it could all be a bunch of bs"
That is my answer. There is no way for me to know for sure if you're telling the truth or you are full of shyt.>>
Ah, but there IS a way to know for sure. Just check google. Look at the history of NYC DOE policy or at its current policies. Basically, your answer lets you off the hook. Yes, it admits a slight possibility that I could be right -- but since you are still insulting me and still indicating that you don't believe me. It's irrational. Who would make up information about NYC DOE policy?
You don't admit I provided some rational, solid proof. You don't admit you were mistaken. You don't honestly think I sat around and made up stuff and labeled it "PPT" or "CPT" or "ATSW." You know it's legit -- but it suits you to pretend otherwise.
I wrote: "I know you will never do the simple, gracious thing any person with self-confidence would have no problem doing -- you will never say, "Hey! You know your stuff and obviously a 20 year old can teach in NYC."
ferri05701 wrote: <<My self-confidence? You're the one who apparently needs random people on the internet to give them affirmation.>>
Naw, I don't need it. If I did, I wouldn't be talking with you. You just can't admit when you made a mistake.
ferri05701 wrote: <<You know your stuff? How is that? Because you say you do?>>
Google will back me up. It's not that hard.
ferri05701 wrote: <<Unlike you, if I know what I say to be true, I don't need people on IMDb to tell me how right I am.>>
Ah, more insults.
ferri05701 wrote: <<You, apparently, really need this.>>
Need what? We're both doing the same thing -- posting on imdb. I KNOW you will never admit you made a mistake. I've said that pretty much from the start. You're easy to read. Clearly, I am not looking for you to admit it. I am watching you NOT admit it and wondering at all the reasons you can come up with to justify yourself, your bad manners, your inability to admit a minor thing, and your denial.
ferri05701 wrote: <<What a sad, pathetic little life you must have.>>
More insults from you! What a surprise!
ferri05701 wrote: <<Maybe you just need a hug. Repeat after me "I'm good enough. I'm smart enough. And doggoneit, people like me". Feel better?>>
And the insults continue!
I wrote: "It's not that hard to google information about the NYC DOE, you know. Or do you think I made up the LAST and the ATSW and all the technical terms I used?"
ferri05701 wrote: <<If its not that hard, why don't you do it and post it here.>>
Oh, it wouldn't make any difference to you. You'd find a way around it.
ferri05701 wrote: <<Why on Earth would I do this?>>
Because that is what a good teacher/lawyer/debater DOES. They check the evidence provided. You won't do this, of course, because doing so would show you made a mistake, so it's easier for you to continue to insult me and call me a liar.
ferri05701 wrote: <<I'm not the one saying its true. You talk about evidence being you can repeat a few technical terms.>>
Naw. I've done more than that, although my familiarity with the terms should show you I have lived in the DOE world. Anyway, I told you all about different policies from the NYC DOE.
ferri05701 wrote: <<I can throw out a few medical terms, doesn't make me a doctor. You want to actually prove it, google it yourself and post it. Show some type of proof that this person was a teacher at 20 other than the fact that you say so and I will gladly say I was wrong and you were right. Until you do that, you're just another full of shyt poster who thinks because they say something it is true.>>
Oh, I could have Dennis Walcott come in here and tell you that I was right and it wouldn't make a difference to you. Still, I'll throw you some bones. Of course, they won't be enough (nothing I provide will) and you will either ignore the evidence, or claim it was faked -- HEY! Are you a birther? You use their tactics.
Okay -- info on the PPT from a recent Teachers Contract: (the PPT no longer exists, afaik). http://www.bths.edu/meetings/BYLAWS/UFT/article05.pdf
Now, do you need me to prove that someone can ace enough AP exams to start college as a sophomore? Here's something from the Princeton Review that proves that: http://in.princetonreview.com/in/2011/02/an-intro-to-getting-college-c redit-in-high-school.html Just click the links.
I really wonder how you are going to obliterate this. Your powers of denial and evasion, while nothing to be proud of, are still considerable. I've actually enjoyed parts of this -- it's been a long time since I thought about the old ways of the DOE (it used to be the BOE).
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I wrote: "Basically, your answer lets you off the hook. Yes, it admits a slight possibility that I could be right"
ferri057501 wrote: <<Of course it does.>>
And note how I give you credit!
ferri057501 wrote: <<I have repeatedly said that.>>
Now, that's not quite accurate. You have, however, repeatedly insulted me and acted as if you think I am a liar.
ferri057501 wrote: <<Why do you keep saying things like "Hedge your bets" and "off the hook" as if I'm trying to deny this.>>
Because you are.
ferri057501 wrote: <<I have said that it would indeed be possible, but not the norm.>>
I agree it's not the norm. I am saying that it HAPPENED -- with someone I know VERY WELL.
ferri057501 wrote: <<Why is that so hard for you to understand?>>
You think I am lying about knowing a woman who started teaching at 20. Am I right -- do you think I am lying or do you believe me?
ferri057501 wrote: <<And your proof here, it doesn't mean anything.>>
Hah! I KNEW you'd say that. I TOLD you you'd say that!
ferri057501 wrote: <<I have stated, AGAIN, that it is possible. Posting an outdated BOE policy doesn't prove or disprove that.>>
It shows that it's possible -- that it was DOE policy -- that the evidence I mentioned is true. It's called "citing your source."
ferri057501 wrote: <<Could you know someone who did this? Yes you could.>>
Okay, so do you think I did? Or do you think I am a liar? That's the question at this point.
ferri057501 wrote: <<Does this prove you know someone who did this? Absolutely not. You're going to say I'm evading but its simply true. How on Earth, short of meeting this person or you posting their teaching license along with the birth cert, college transcripts, etc(Which is ridiculous) could you possibly prove you know somebody who did this? I'm finished with you until you do one of those moronic things.>>
Uh, why do I have to prove this? What about this very ordinary story engenders such distrust in you? Most people would just accept it -- it's not that weird. You told me you were a teacher. I believed you on a lot less evidence (I have only your word) than I provided. Should I doubt you? Ask you to provide proof? Would that seem normal to you?
ferri057501 wrote: <<You're not a troll because you say you know somebody who did this. You're a troll because you continually say the same stupid shyt>>
You are the one who is swearing and being insulting and rude -- that's troll behavior. And, to be quite honest, you keep saying the same thing.
ferri057501 wrote: <<and ignore common sense, say you have proof when there really is no way to prove it, and go on and on about being insulted when you began the insults. There is no use getting into a conversation with a moron such as yourself so I'm done with you.>>
You just love to insult -- I think it's because you have no real argument.
ferri057501 wrote: <<If that makes you feel good, like you won or something, good for you. I'm glad you feel good.
Whoa. Why do you think it would make me feel good? It doesn't make me feel good or bad or anything. Why do you think it would? Are you scared it would make me feel good -- is that how you would feel? It is, isn't it.
ferri057501 wrote: <<If that is true, your existence is even more pathetic than I thought.>>
More insults -- and fear. Over nothing. Obviously you think I am a liar since you are asking me to "prove" an utterly ordinary story. Why you think I or anyone would lie about something like this I don't know -- maybe you're projecting again. It's no big deal.
I only saw part of this movie on tv last night so I am wondering were the characters ' ages or age difference stated in the movie? Also do we know what state the movie is set in? It is important to remember the movie was made in 1984. Requirements for teachers may have changed over the years. The cutoff date for starting kindergarten in my state has changed since then and has probably changed in other states. Policies on kids skipping grades vary a lot depending on school districts and times. Getting a bachelor's degree in four years was considered the norm at the time I went to college in the 70's. Probably the teacher in the movie would have gone to college in the late 60's. I don't know what the job market was like for teachers back then, but it seems like it should have been good since the baby boom should have resulted in record high enrollments. This would make it more likely he could find a teaching job right out of college. AP classes were not so common then. My high school only offered one AP English class in the early 70s. Many of the kids I went to college with had not had the opportunity to take any APs.
It seems plausible to me that a first year teacher in high school could be seven years older than some of his students. One of my kids had a first-year teacher for 1st grade in the 90's who was only 21. Several times my kids have had first year teachers who had just finished college the previous spring. I don't know their ages for sure but would guess they were 22 - 24.
What teacher gets a degree at 20? You graduate high school at 17 or 18. To earn a college degree takes at least 4 or 5 years. Then you have to pass state exams which are only offered a few times a year. Then you have to actually find a job. Realistically, 23 or 24 would be the earliest one could realistically become a teacher. Maybe 22 if they really hustled their course load in college. But no way 20, unless they were Doogie Howser or something.
Just a footnote here--I graduated from college with a teaching degree at the age of twenty. I was definitely a very good student but not "gifted" in any sense of the word...just a very hard worker with a goal in mind. In Pennsylvania in the late 60's-early 70's, the state college system worked in trimesters. There were (obviously) three per year, rather than the usual two semesters. Taking advantage of that, and adding a few credits here and there,I managed to finish early. I graduated from high school in May of 1966 at the age of 17, and finished college in May of 1969 at the age of 20. I was certainly in the age group of Nolte's character in the film.
Although I was an elementary teacher, some of my friends were certified to teach at the high school level. One was also twenty when she finished college; she then obtained a job teaching Senior High School English, and was only 3-4 years older than her students.
pamurchu wrote: <<Just a footnote here--I graduated from college with a teaching degree at the age of twenty.>>
Thank you for saying so! I still don't understand why ferri057501 thinks doing so is so unusual.
pamurchu wrote: <<I was definitely a very good student but not "gifted" in any sense of the word...just a very hard worker with a goal in mind.>>
Wow. I think I love you. I have to say I think you are probably more gifted than you believe. FWIW, teachers LOVE hard workers who keep their goals in mind (you're a teacher -- you know this). Ultimately, it is those people who run the world. Admit it -- your teachers loved you!
pamurchu wrote: <<In Pennsylvania in the late 60's-early 70's, the state college system worked in trimesters. There were (obviously) three per year, rather than the usual two semesters. Taking advantage of that, and adding a few credits here and there,I managed to finish early.>>
Well done! I love students like you! The woman I know and have mentioned started college as a sophomore when she was 17 thanks to all the credit she got from her MANY AP tests. Obviously, since she skipped her freshman year, she was able to graduate in three years. You sound like you really worked your fingers to the bone. It's worth it, though, isn't it? I think it is.
pamurchu wrote: <<I graduated from high school in May of 1966 at the age of 17, and finished college in May of 1969 at the age of 20. I was certainly in the age group of Nolte's character in the film.
Although I was an elementary teacher, some of my friends were certified to teach at the high school level. One was also twenty when she finished college; she then obtained a job teaching Senior High School English, and was only 3-4 years older than her students.>>
Yeah -- it's not that unusual or unbelievable at all. I don't know why ferri057501 thinks it is. In New York now, students don't age out of school until they are 21 (special ed regulation) -- in other words, they can be in high school until they turn 21. That's not ideal, of course, and hurts the school's NCLB stats, but it can happen. So, if you had started teaching HS when you were 20 in New York, you could be pretty much the same age as some of your students. As I said, that happened to a young woman I know.
Hey, thanks for the kind words. Looking back after a few years of retirement, I can honestly say that I loved my job--rarely a dull moment!
shareYou're retired? I'm jealous! I'm just tired! ;-)
shareHey--just saw your answer. Yes I enjoy retirement! Very much! But as my good friend Eric once told me, "Once you are retired, there is only one more really important left thing to do...you figure it out!"
"More cowbell!"...Christopher Walken
She was his student about 15 years before, remember?
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