Upsetting and ridiculous - Something About Amelia (1984) Discussion

[–] janip31-1 15 years ago

I totally agree. I remember seeing it back in 84, I was a senior in high school at the time. I almost felt sorry for Ted Danson's character. Back then sexual abuse in the family was in no way as 'out there' as it is now. Dated, it is, and I agree with you by today's standards completely ridiculous how it was handled. Thank God sexual abuse issues are no longer swept under the rug like that.

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[–] suntya11 15 years ago

I agree. I am glad people discussed it though. Incest happens more than people care to admit to. He should have went to jail. JAIL JAIL JAIL. It is not about sex and getting off as much as it is about power and control.

The landfills were full, New Jersey was full. -Futurama-

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] ec1979 15 years ago

I don't really believe that sex offenders can benefit from therapy. They aren't going to change, why waste money on their treatment when we could be treating drug addicts while they're incarcertated for drug offenses.

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[–] brux (14666) 5 years ago

> I don't really believe that sex offenders can benefit from therapy.

I don't think it is a black and white thing ... the problem is that no one can tell what another person is going to do and pedophiles have a huge rate of recidivism. Is if safe to let them back into society if they will repeat their offense, or is it unfair to not let them back into society if there is a higher probability that they will re-offend.

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[–] tac-15 15 years ago

What we know now is that most pedophiles are beyond recovery and should never be around children. In the case of the father in this movie, it seems that it wasn't pedophilia, but brephophilia (attraction to teens). Pedophiles aren't interested in teens, whose bodies are becoming adult; rather, they are attracted to pre-adolescent children. At least this is what the behavioral health experts have to say on it. In the case presented in this movie, what made the abuse worse is that it was incest -the father betraying his role of provider/protector/parent to the daughter. I agree that there must have been something in his past, be it past abuse of him by another or his failure to grow up and mature. That means not seeking instant gratification, even to the point of using his daughter, which, sadly, he did.
Jail will not help, but it is the debt to pay to society for breaking the law. Therapy will have to be intensive and done by really committed professionals who are above reproach. Sometimes, the ones working in the jails and institutions are sicker than the inmates they are trying to "rehabilitate".
While recovery is hard, it isn't impossible. I know of people who belong to 12-step groups for sex/love addictions who find a kind of sexual sobriety by following their programs, but it takes a long time for such people to turn around. Faith and prayer, belief in a Higher Power which some call God, has helped many people to change their lives. I would only hope that there is some parallel program for spouses, children and others who have been hurt by abusers, like Al-Anon and Ala-Teen help those who have to live with alcoholics to learn how to cope. Certainly it helps a lot when the victim is supported by the other parent. Too often the other parent is in denial, will label the victim a "liar" and will not offer the support and help needed. Forgiveness also has its place and can help in the process of healing, especially for the victim. When she/he is ready to forgive, realizing that it is for HER/HIS own good, rather than the offender's, it can be very empowering and healing.

I'm a believer; I believe in God and in spending my life doing good for others who are God's image and likeness to me. I don't worship only weekends, but every day; I find it makes me a better person and gives me the grace to cope with whatever life deals out each day.

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[–] MalContentUSA 15 years ago

Actually, there is a hint within the film that there is some pedophilia involved, on the father's part, and that he is at least somewhat at risk for abusing other children, even if he has been scared off from abusing his own daughters in the future. Was anyone else creeped out by the scene where he is by himself in the hotel, watching a Shirly Temple film and rather noticably being turned on sexually by the image?

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[–] Clusium 14 years ago

"...where he is by himself in the hotel, watching a Shirly(sic) Temple film and rather noticably being turned on sexually by the image?"

Actually, that was not how I interpreted that particular scene. When I saw that scene where he suddenly woke up, & saw the scene from the movie, "Baby Take a Bow," & she was singing about her relationship with her Daddy, I thought, it was finally starting to sink in with him, about the damage he caused to his relationship with his own daugher.

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[–] chattytara 8 years ago

Side note @tac-15...I think you're referring to "Ephebophilia;" which is the adult sexual interest in mid-to-late adolescents, generally ages 15 to 19. To my knowledge ""brephophilia" is not a real word.

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[–] missypantne 14 years ago

I think your perspective is really interesting. People saying "we know now that they can't change and are just sick" do YOU have a professional perspective on the matter? I'm pretty sure this person knows better than you do. And no, you can't "just know" things that someone with a career in psychiatric care who specializes in this kind of thing would know.

But I guess it's easier to see them as monsters...requires a lot less thought. Obviously what they do is wrong, but if it was someone you loved, wouldn't you want to at least TRY to find a way to help them?

I'm saying this as someone whose dad was abusive for many years - no, he wasn't a monster, he was a person with a LOT of problems, and when he finally started getting help, he was like a completely different person. He wasn't perfect, but he wanted to change.

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[–] simpsongirl 12 years ago

Sorry, Missypantne, these people can't change. My father was an incestuous pedophile who couldn't change and never did change. He chose to surround himself with other perverts and they never changed, either. These people ARE monsters and need to be locked up. One day you will come to see that if you haven't already.

No TV and no beer make Homer something--something!!
Go Crazy?
Don't mind if I do!!!

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[–] lm362 8 years ago

So you are saying that every person who has said they know a molester who has changed is lying? These have included religious people. Are they also lying? Sounds to me that you are even saying that this victim, Missypantne, is also lying. That is total disrespect for this victim. I would think that a victim of any crime, of all people, would be more capable of knowing if the perpetrator of a crime had changed.

"Do All Things For God's Glory"-1 Corinthians 10:31
I try doing this with my posts

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[–] annb-4 12 years ago

thank you. the current state of affairs, which is to demonize people instead of dealing with their behavior seems to be at almost a witch hunt stage in the u.s. these days, as can be clearly seen in most of the other comments here. it's not clear at all that we know nearly enough about causes, treatment, and prevention to have easy answers to the problem.

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[–] donnasbox 15 years ago

I completely agree with you, and no way would it be handled like that today... to think that a family could ever be the same again after that IS utterly ridiculous. It just wouldn't be possible.

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[–] playdoughplayah 14 years ago

a man who rapes his daughter (or son) regardless of age is messed up, always has been and always will be. a pedophile never NEVER changes no matter how much "help" they get or group therapy they attend. they just mentally cant change. until medical science comes up with some kind of drug cocktail or brain surgery they will always be a danger to children. And usually pedophiles are into a lot of dangerous sexual behaviour, incest and beastiality and pedophilia go hand in hand.

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[–] tcm-755-496994 14 years ago

I hold a Master degree in Counseling Psychology and am a Certified Therapist in the areas of Sexual Addiction.

I have treated hundreds of abused and abusers. I can tell you that it is no delicate matter. In most cases those whom abuse, have been abused as children. That being said, it is not an excuse as there are thousand whom have been abused and have never harmed another person.

The position that offenders can never be helped is inaccurate. There are some that are hopeless. Those that have no desire to change, but the justice system has imposed the maximum sentence allowed by law, and we have to do our best to rehabilitate and monitor.

Sexual addiction, though the parameters are much different, can be treated much like any other addiction, using a 12-step program. The offender goes through the same processes of the 12-steps. I would have to say that, once an offender goes through the extensive program, enhanced by attendance at Sex Addicts Anonymous, the recidivism rate drops dramatically. The purpose is to identify those red flags and triggers, and allow the offender to create a relapse prevention plan. These are shared with loved ones.

The ultimate goal is not to re-unite an offender with his or her family, but to help to insure the behavior is changed and is not repeated. We do have programs that do help to accomplish reunification by bringing all members of the family together to understand the situation, and become aware of all aspects of the abuse.

We do have a high success rate. There will always be those that choose to re-offend. Those are the predator cases that should have never been allowed out of prison. However, you cannot make blanket statements about the ineffectiveness of counseling, as I know of several cases, right now, that have completed our counseling within the past 10 years, and currently hold good jobs, stable relationships, and yes, are productive parents.

It is true that there is no magic cure. However, counseling, re-education, and rehabilitation have helped thousands of former inmates become productive members of society.

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[–] Mehki_Girl 13 years ago

You have a masters, big deal, so do I. I guess that makes you an expert. People are mixing up sex-addicts with pedophiles with rapists. The sexuality of pedophiles is a sexual attraction to children. Usually within a particular age-range and a particular gender, sometimes not. This *is* their sexuality.

Talking about therapy to "cure" them is like saying therapy is going to change a heterosexual into a homosexual or a homosexual into a heterosexual. It didn't work for homosexuals and therapy isn't going to change the sexual orientation of pedophiles.

People just want them off the street, not reintroduced into society. They are what they are and because of the nature of their sexuality and the ages of their ahem "sexual partners" (for lack of a better term at the moment), they are covert, predator rapists. Children cannot give consent to have sex with an adult and pedophiles cannot be cured of their sexuality. The only thing some of them can be "cured" of (and that's for the ones that feel true remorse and repulsion for their sexuality and do not want to re-offend) is to stop molesting children, but you are not going to take away their desire for children. Children are everywhere, the temptation is too great.

Lock 'em and throw away the key!

I saw this movie many years ago and I'd forgotten the story tried to reintegrate him back into the family. What a crock!

Yeah, thirty years ago people holding Phd's said the cause of autism were "refrigerator" mothers (cold mothers who didn't show love to their children), now we know its a neurological condition.

So-called educated experts, need some life lessons and to get a clue.

Sometimes "education" gets too much in the way.

And just how do you get into the head of a pedophile and figure out which one is just telling you what you want to hear?

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[–] brunhilda2013 7 years ago

He wasn't a pedophile. A pedophile is a step-father or mother's boyfriend who strikes up a relationship with her solely to get access to her children. A biological father who molests his children obivously has issues, but pedophilia usually isn't one of them.

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[–] 7 years ago

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[–] lm362 8 years ago

Oh, so all the people, including some victims, who have said a molester they know has changed has lied?

"Do All Things For God's Glory"-1 Corinthians 10:31
I try doing this with my posts

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[–] Leiarie 14 years ago

Yes, he needed to be put in prison for the rest of his life so that he can never, ever again harm another child.

Why is it that if a stranger rapes a child, people tend to be more harsh about it than if it is a family member raping the child? When it's a family member, they want to call in the therapists.

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[–] emmeline01 14 years ago

Of course your points are valid. There are lots of things that were handled differently years ago. As I remember from the movie, it seemed to me it was a one time thing. I think that's why there was an effort to bring the family back together. All parties involved were traumatized.

It was a powerful movie I can always remember Glenn Close's line "Why did you LET him do it!!" Heartbreaking!

I remember I had a friend who was "fast" my mother told me "she sleeps with grown men." Never mind the fact she was 13 years old!!! In those days, it wasn't viewed as sexual abuse of a child the girl was "fast."

I think we've gone way, way too far in the other direction.

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] Leiarie 14 years ago

I was under the impression during the movie that it was an ongoing thing.

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[–] MalContentUSA 14 years ago

I had that impression also that the abuse had been going on over a period of months if not several years. Amelia says, at one point before the "secret" is revealed, that "It's time that Beth (younger sister) starts taking her turn for more than just doing laundry." In speaking to the school counselor, she says something to the effect of "My dad messes around with me"--present tense--and again speaks in the present tense to her mother in saying "Daddy makes me have sex with him." All in all, sounds as though this were not just a one time incident. And obviously once would have been far more than enough, in any case.

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[–] fiatlux-1 14 years ago

I had that impression also that the abuse had been going on over a period of months if not several years.

You are correct. Amelia mentions to the therapist that it (up until she told her secret) had been happening once a week sometimes less. My eyes bugged at that one!
ONCE A WEEK?! How did this poor child keep from going crazy?!

And how could the mother NEVER CATCH HIM in the act?! That never made any sense to me.

I was startled that the dad didn't get jail time, but then as others have mentioned this was the early '80s and the problem was just beginning to be really discussed...at least in so-called 'upper class' society. Incest and child abuse was just beginning to be acknowledged as not just a problem of the 'lower income/class' families then.

I wasn't so much put off by the father going to therapy (I think in his case it might have helped him, as he realized he had a problem and wanted to stop) but that the mother was considering STAYING MARRIED TO HIM! I would have attacked him with any weapon handy!

And after his therapy, he maybe could have visitation rights, but living with them? Could Amelia (or Beth) ever feel 100% safe or comfortable again?

"I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus."
"Didn't he discover America?"
"Penfold, shush."

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] MalContentUSA 14 years ago

Verbal or emotional coercion could be just as bad if not worse, in the sense that parents are supposed to protect you from harm, not inflict it.

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[–] vgrace01 13 years ago

Sorry, but that's BS. It absolutely is rape. 120% rape. The definition of rape doesn't include having to hold the victim down. All rape means legally is having sex with someone against their will and in the case of a child, it's rape just by virtue of her being under the age of consent. Let's not make excuses here and blame Amelia by saying "she let him have his way with her." She didn't "let" anything. She was violated and raped.

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[–] MNRebecca (749) 5 years ago

Amelia is 13. The abuse has been going on since she was 11. A couple of your quotes are incorrect, but "Daddy makes me have sex with him" is dead on. Also, she cringes and pretends to be asleep when her father opens her bedroom door. She tell her mother, "The only reason I told is I don't want to do it anymore." So yeah, it's on-going.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] taylorje 11 years ago

Things have changed since 1984. I remember when this movie was first aired and it was shocking -- a father having sex with his own daughter? And then a hint of forgiveness at the end? That disgusted me then and it still does.

Several things that struck me are (1) the father is released on his own recognizance. Wouldn't happen today. (2) I don't remember that the sister was offered any counseling. (3) word doesn't get out about what's happened. Even though Amelia's privacy had to be protected, news like that tends to leak out and spread among neighbors, work colleagues, etc.

In the mid-1990's, my best friend's family was torn apart by a similar incident. Her daughters, ages 12 and 15, said they were being molested by their father. They told the youth pastor at their church, who was bound by law to report it. The police went to the man's workplace and arrested him that same day. No being released on his own recognizance; bail was set. Understandably, my friend was completely devastated. She had no idea that this had been going on -- and at some point, considered taking him back! She had it figured out that she would quit her job, do her errands while the girls were at school and never leave them alone with their father. The molestation had occured while she was working 2nd shift. That ended our friendship, because I couldn't believe she would even consider such a thing. Long story short, the father admitted to what he had done and was ultimately sentenced to "weekend jail" so he could keep his job and pay child support. My now-ex friend got a divorce and moved out of state with the girls. To my knowledge, he never saw them again. He died of pancreatic cancer a few years ago.

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[–] Allbymyself 11 years ago

What your friend thought of doing is, sadly, more common than we'd like to believe. It's also been going on for years.

My mother's father raped his daughters, except my mom. (A strange phenomenon, indeed). Once, my grandmother walked in on him raping one of the girls. She just walked back out. My mom still to this day does not understand how she didn't pick up a shovel and beat him to death. This was in the 1930s and 1940s, btw. Imagine how different things were then! My mom's story is a very sad one. It's incomprehensible that I'm one generation away from a monster. I never knew him, thankfully. He died when my mom was still young. I don't consider him my "grandfather." I don't understand why women choose to stay in relationships, or even think about staying in relationships where their husband or boyfriend abuses their children, either sexually or physically or both.

My husband is first in my life over my kids, because he's the one I plan on spending the rest of my life with. He's my best friend and lover. It gives my kids a sense of security to see us happy together, and it keeps my kids from trying to play me against him or vice versa for what they want. I love him very much. He's an amazing husband and father. However, he would be OUT if he ever abused my kids. There's no room for tolerance or compromise when it comes to that. It would be the same for him if I abused our kids, too. There is a line and if it's crossed, there's no room for second-guessing.

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] Lifeguardfan 11 years ago

@blueharmon:

What's scary is although you say this movie wouldn't be shown on TV now, a 2003 TV movie called A Long Way Home (also known as Aftermath), followed the same premise. A husband is introduced back into the family after having sex with his daughter and the family tries to resolve everything by intense therapy. They just showed is a few months ago on Lifetime, so movies like this are still being played for today's audiences.

---------------------
I don't put movie quotes in my signature.

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[–] golden_muse 12 years ago

I totally agree, I actually believe that this movie does more harm than good. It seems to imply that, as long as a father teaches his daughter about football and sings a mean lullaby, it's relatively OK if he rapes her. The mother is more concerned by the father's lack of sexual interest in her than by the fact that he is raping their daughter. Ah, but once the family attends a few counseling sessions everything will be fine. Balderdash. I can't believe that this film is so highly regarded.

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[–] fiatlux-1 10 years ago

I remember when this movie debuted in 1984. It was shocking then, and is even shocking today in its tale.
The way that they treated the father was ridiculous in its leniency! They released him on his own recognizance just because he's her father?!
The dad saying he loved his daughter was disgusting, he was a pedophile not a loving dad.

But what made me almost as angry was the way the psychiatrist dealt with it.
He tells the wife that 'this happens in marriages that have broken down.'
What the hell does incest have to do with a rocky marriage?!!!

The mom was just about as bad as the father. She refuses to believe her own daughter, then barely even confronts the dad once she does.
When the dad hints at forgiveness from her, I would have thrown hot coffee in his face! He'd never use his vile penis again, one way or another let me say.

Granted, the end of the film did state that this resolution was unusual & showed a therapeutic 'solution' to the problem as opposed to prison.

"I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus."
"Didn't he discover America?"
"Penfold, shush."

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[–] Noelle111 10 years ago

I agree..I remember seeing it back in 1984..I was 11 and of course really did not understand all of it at the time. But, I do remember thinking even at that young age how the way some of it was handled was way off. Now watching it I am completely in shock. Besides the father of course that therapist was completely out of line. The whole line that we all have fleeting thoughts of incest, but they come and go and never are acted upon..really? Making the mother feel guilt as if the lack of intimacy in their marrige somehow drove the father into raping his own child. And the way he said we do not blame anyone here, I wanted to go through my computer and smack him, what a condescending prick. I would not be surprised if the father had a history of doing this to other children maybe siblings as he was growing up. The only redeeming quality is it brought this issue to the forefront of America at the time. I was also glad that they showed a middle class family, showing that this problem is in all classes, it has no prejudices.

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[–] fiatlux-1 9 years ago

I was young too when this came out, I was 9.
But like others here, I too was SHOCKED that the guy wasn't even in jail!

I understand 100% that this was 1984, a whole different era than today.
But come on...just because he was her DAD he practically gets a free pass!

How did Amelia not get pregnant? How did the mom never hear or see anything....he claims they had sex at least 3 times a month!

I hated that shrink too! There are people who believe that pedophilia can be 'cured' but I do not believe that. Its deliberately-criminal behavior.
Same with this dad. How could the shrink blame the wife?!!!!!!!
'Incest happens in marriages that have broken down.' 'The husband is looking for affection/love'." WHAT?! That is utter bull!

The only part I did figure out was when the shrink said that most people have faint & fleeting feelings of incest. That was a controversial comment to be sure...and the line was badly written as it was never explained!

But here is my take on it:
For example, a dad sees his teenage daughter in a low-cut shirt or bikini, and suddenly thinks 'Wow, she looks lovely.' or 'Geez, she's developing too quick.'
And instantly, he feels bad for thinking such *perverted* thoughts about his own daughter. But the thought was an instinct, yet he feels bad about it anyway.

Or a mom notices her teenage son is very muscular/handsome. She feels guilty, again, for a FLEETING yet instinctive thought. It doesn't mean either parent thinks of their children sexually.

I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus.
Didn't he discover America?
Penfold, shush.

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[–] jefgg 10 years ago

Ted Danson as Steven Bennett was a very sick man. He needed prison, not counseling. I wondered what other disgusting things he did besides raping his daughter.

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