Rape scene


In the most recent episode of American Dad! there was a reference to RotN...

Steve: Yeah. We nerds have a long history of making our dream girls fall for us. Like that kid in Revenge of the Nerds who finally won the heart of that cheerleader.
Barry: Oh, you mean the one who put on a Darth Vader mask so he could rape her at that carnival?
Steve: Yep
Snot: Nah, never saw it

Of course, the inside joke is that Snot is voiced by Curtis Armstrong, who played Booger in RotN.

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ooh i like ill drink to that



Smash the control machine, work, buy, consume, die. Haters, betrayers, liars and thieves.-Otep

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OMG - seriously

Enough with the 'rape' junk. I was cheering Louis on, for grasping that moment to be alone with his true crush. The douche-bag was Stan... for insulting Betty, then ditching her clean. Louis practically came to her rescue. Stan dropped, Louis retrieved. Simple as that.

And funny... I do not ever recall... at any given time, Betty "screaming" or tearing a fit, after Louis revealed his identity afterward. She was surprised alright... But certainly not upset, nor screaming any Rape. In fact... As I recall, her actual response was: "That was wonnnnnnderfullllll" Yea. Real rape in my book.

Louis gave her the ultimate pleasure she'd wanted with Stan. And, well, tough toots, Stan-boy. Betty actually thanked Louis for the pleasure... Then agreed to meet up with him, after the pep-rally.

RAPE????
Me-thinks you may wish to reconsider

Peanutlee33

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It wasn't rape in the usual sense of the word. What was lacking, though, was Betty's informed consent. She thought it was Stan, with good reason, and consented to have sex with Stan. She didn't consent to have sex with Louis.

Let's change the facts a bit. Say Betty regularly has unprotected sex with Stan, because he's been snipped. Louis deceives her into having sex with him, and she gets pregnant. Or, if we place the movie a few years later, she regularly has unprotected sex with Stan because he's confirmed as disease-free. Louis deceives her into having sex with him, and she gets an STD from him.

I can't comment on whether or not it meets the legal dictionary definition of "rape" or "sexual assault", but in any event, it was a scurvy and deceptive act on Louis's part, regardless of how much of a C-U-Next-Tuesday Betty had been towards him.


Revenge is a dish best served cold.
-- Klingon proverb

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I only challenge this a little bit. Betty consented to having sex with a person in a mask she assumed was Stan without any clarification that it WAS Stan. I agree she did not give informed consent to have sex with Louis, but that information was lacking due to her assumptions (in conjunction with Louis' guile by wearing Stan's mask).

I would think, if it were one of the worst sexual encounters she had ever experienced, the result would have been far different than what we saw on screen and that it being considered 'rape" would be more accepted.

If I switched Halloween costumes with my buddy so I could have sex with his wife, while in costume, I can't imagine that not being viewed as a rape. I sure as hell would feel like a rapist.



I don’t need you to tell me how good my coffee is.. 
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I think her assumption that it was Stan was pretty solid. In identical circumstances, realistically, I don't think most people would have thought otherwise.

I do wonder -- even if the sex had been good, would most women have simply responded with "oh, you're not my boyfriend, but hey.... that was good sex, so the deception thing, well, that's cool"?

Revenge is a dish best served cold.
-- Klingon proverb

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Let us also consider... After you re-watch the scene.
Louis only performs oral sex on Betty, not vaginal. The first time I watched, I thought the very the same. Then Louis makes out with Betty, after she invites him to meet up with her later.

Oral sex is not considered actual rape, nor any presumed rape.


Peanutlee33

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Oral sex is not considered actual rape, nor any presumed rape.

I think fellatiating a male against his consent can be considered rape. So I would think that burying your face in a woman's bare crotch can also be considered rape. So can burying a broomstick in there. I think the definitions have changed to be more encompassing of a variety of perversions and assaults deviant of just simple penetration.

If I woke up with Rosie O'Donnell's crotch on my face i would definitely consider myself raped.



I don’t need you to tell me how good my coffee is.. 
.

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I'd you don't think so ask mike tyson

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Oral sex is not considered actual rape, nor any presumed rape.


Nope. Try again.

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It wasn't rape in the usual sense of the word. What was lacking, though, was Betty's informed consent. She thought it was Stan, with good reason, and consented to have sex with Stan. She didn't consent to have sex with Louis.

No, but consent doesn't have to be given before it happens. After the fact, if she was okay that it happened, then it was still consensual.

As for this whole "rape" talk, it's funny, I first saw this movie back in 1984 or 1985 when it came out on video. Never ONCE did I, or anyone else I knew that watched this movie, ever even remotely think that scene was a rape. It wasn't until I started reading these boards that the idiots of the world started crying rape about it, over 25 years after the fact.

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As for this whole "rape" talk, it's funny, I first saw this movie back in 1984 or 1985 when it came out on video. Never ONCE did I, or anyone else I knew that watched this movie, ever even remotely think that scene was a rape. It wasn't until I started reading these boards that the idiots of the world started crying rape about it, over 25 years after the fact.


I think thematically we applauded Louis, not only for getting one up on Betty and Stan, but for also being a better lover than Stan and winning the heart and mind of his crush.
I concur that it wasn;t really considered rape. But then again, back in those days rape was also still used as a source of humor and wink-nudge rather than the wicked and evil assault society came to view it as.
We also never saw that scene of Kelly LeBrock in "Weird Science" kissing the kid as being statutory rape. But now, the board for that movie brings this up a lot.



I don’t need you to tell me how good my coffee is.. 
.

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"Hey, that's MY PI"!

"check the imdb cast list before asking who portrayed who in movies please"

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No, but consent doesn't have to be given before it happens. After the fact, if she was okay that it happened, then it was still consensual.
Translation: It's not rape if he/she liked it.
And... Yes. It IS rape. Consent can't be given after the fact. It has to be done before. It wasn't, therefore it IS rape.

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As for this whole "rape" talk, it's funny, I first saw this movie back in 1984 or 1985 when it came out on video. Never ONCE did I, or anyone else I knew that watched this movie, ever even remotely think that scene was a rape. It wasn't until I started reading these boards that the idiots of the world started crying rape about it, over 25 years after the fact.


I've noticed that myself. It is interesting to read the comments and compare the thinking today with how it was 30 years ago. I don't recall if the Moral Majority took a stance on this movie, but the very fact that there was nudity and pot-smoking would have put it on their crap list.

I also don't recall if anyone thought the scene in question was rape. Perhaps it would have been legally considered rape, although in terms of movies, it was quite different than rapes shown in movies like Death Wish or Death Wish II. Those were vicious, violent gang rapes ending in murder.

On the other hand, concepts like "date rape" had not really gotten much public attention at that point.

What I wonder about is if other movies from earlier eras are held to the same standard as this one. Is Clint Eastwood's character in High Plains Drifter now considered a "scumbag"? What about Robert Redford tying up Faye Dunaway in Three Days of the Condor? In other words, is it the crime itself which gets people upset, or is it just the fact that it was committed by a "nerd," as opposed to a more aesthetically pleasing male actor?





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What I wonder about is if other movies from earlier eras are held to the same standard as this one. Is Clint Eastwood's character in High Plains Drifter now considered a "scumbag"? What about Robert Redford tying up Faye Dunaway in Three Days of the Condor? In other words, is it the crime itself which gets people upset, or is it just the fact that it was committed by a "nerd," as opposed to a more aesthetically pleasing male actor?
i think it's mainly the part where it's not treated as rape. Gone to the Wind has been hit for that too (though it's mitigated se because of the blatantly obvious values dissonance of marital rape at that time, whereas a guy raping a girl as revenge/getting rewarded by her dating him.... Can't get the same level of values dissonance)

It's not really helped by the fact these guys do a multiple of things that would get on you on sex offeder list being portrayed as wimpy and innocent with said actions being morally justified. I mean, these guys also string up a bunch of cameras in a sorority house after sneaking in to look at the girls nude as their "get back at them" prank (never mind it not really being a prank when the victims don't even know it's happening, to say nothing of the "prank" itself...) and illegally release and sell pornographic material of the main girl

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It's not really helped by the fact these guys do a multiple of things that would get on you on sex offeder list being portrayed as wimpy and innocent with said actions being morally justified. I mean, these guys also string up a bunch of cameras in a sorority house after sneaking in to look at the girls nude as their "get back at them" prank (never mind it not really being a prank when the victims don't even know it's happening, to say nothing of the "prank" itself...) and illegally release and sell pornographic material of the main girl


I get what you're saying completely, although in this movie, both sides were doing bad, illegal, and atrocious things to each other and labeling them as "pranks." Plus, it was also fraternities and sororities - which a lot of people back then didn't like on general principle. Among other things, they were seen as elitist bastions of wealth and privilege, and the nerds were seen as the underdogs going up against the establishment.

The jocks were seen as elitist bullies, so the nerds' retaliation wasn't really seen as victimizing them. In comedy movies, if something bad happens to the bully, then it might be viewed differently than if it happened to somebody else.

Of course, these are all definitely crimes being committed, even according to the laws which existed at the time the movie was made. As far as values dissonance is concerned, it might be looked upon differently depending on the severity of the crime and the circumstances surrounding it. Perhaps nowadays, the crimes depicted in this movie would be looked upon as more severe than they once were.

Some universities also were inconsistent about some things back in those days, especially when it came to law enforcement in the fraternity/sorority world. They'd have to be careful about how they handle things, since a lot of the more conservative families try to avoid anything scandalous or embarrassing.

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The major difference is that the jocks and cheerleaders are portrayed as bullies and unsympathetic antagonists (which, to be fair, they aren't) for their antics. On the other hand, we're expected to be on the sides of the nerds and cheering them on during the rape and various other deplorable activitie, thus the criticism.

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The major difference is that the jocks and cheerleaders are portrayed as bullies and unsympathetic antagonists (which, to be fair, they aren't) for their antics. On the other hand, we're expected to be on the sides of the nerds and cheering them on during the rape and various other deplorable activitie, thus the criticism.


Isn't that how it is in most movies like this? Whatever happens to the villain, however deplorable, is what happens. In Animal House, the fate of the two primary villains is told at the end, where one gets raped in prison and the other gets shot by his own troops. It's meant to be funny and the audience is expected to laugh about it, mainly because the villains were such horrible people to begin with.

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I haven't seen Animal House, but it doesn't sound like the heroes are doing the raping in that. The rape isn't being treated like rape in this, it's being treated like "dweeby nerd finally gets the girl! Cheer, audience! He's being heroic and cool!" It's protagonist backfire

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when i was a kid and watched this for the first time i was cheering on luis but now the scene is very uncomfortable to watch

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Legally speaking, it is rape. Specifically, rape by deception

Rape by deception is a crime in which the perpetrator has the victim's sexual consent and compliance, but gains it through deception or fraudulent statements or actions.


And yeah, the scene definitely bothered me as well. Especially him getting rewarded by dating said cheerleader after

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O M G
Interesting how this very thread... Labeling a goofball 80s comedy scene, of a head nerd taking opportunity to be alone with a Sorority co-ed crush, then perform O.S. on her - got whacked out as 'Rape'

Where I come from, actual rape is a perpetrator (either gender) forcibly initiating unwanted sexual penetration, with intent to commit physically violent harm. Not at all and nowhere shape nor close, to what actually occurred in this comedy scene.


Peanutlee33

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Where I come from, actual rape is a perpetrator (either gender) forcibly initiating unwanted sexual penetration, with intent to commit physically violent harm
Um, no. Date rape doesn't usually involve a lot of physical aggression since the victim is unconscious and can't defend him/herself, but it's still rape since there's no valid consent. Likewise, consent was given to her BOYFRIEND to have sex with her, not the nerd pretending to be a totally different person (her BF) to have sex with her. The consent was given under false pretenses of who she was having sex with, therefore it's not valid, therefore rape

And again, legally speaking, this is rape. Case closed.

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Case re-opened.

He had his pi and ate it too.....

Neeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrdddddddddddssssssssss!!!!

"check the imdb cast list before asking who portrayed who in movies please"

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It's not rape.

Case closed.

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It is legally rape. It fits the legal definition for rape by deception, and there is no clear consent in this situation. No consent during sex = rape

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I really, really hope you're not dating anyone if you think rape has to involve physical force. Seriously, you are wrong. And what Louis does to Betty is in fact rape. Please read up on the concept of date rape (also known as acquaintance rape) before exposing your ignorance any more.

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I think it furthers rape culture because:
- You trick women into having sex with you.
- If you're good at it, they won't mind.

Same thing with the nerd and the popular girl (drunk out of her mind in that case) in 16 Candles.

Problematic. As a girl, these things made me deeply uncomfortable. When does the woman get to consent? I always want to have the chance to say no.

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Never thought of either case being rape. The only thing I thought was why no one came into the bouncy thing during the entire scene. And in 16C, how no cops stopped him at all that night.

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It doesn't have to be violent to be considered rape. She only consented because he pretended to be somebody else, and it's not true consent when she was technically consenting to Stan, not Louis, therefore it's a rape by deception.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_deception

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She wanted it.

"check the imdb cast list before asking who portrayed who in movies please"

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I guess it would be safe to say that she got "nerded".

"check the imdb cast list before asking who portrayed who in movies please"

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well it was rape, he had sex with her under the guise of being someone else.

It's rape, just the same as a female giving you consent to have sex with her, while using a condom, during the sex, you take off the condom without her consent and continue the act. she finds out you removed the condom.

Even though she consented to the sex, you used deception which is very much against the law and is rape.

The movie was made in the 80's when things were a big less PC, so what Louis did wasn't necessarily rape back in those days. In that if a female tried to bring up rape charges back in that time frame she likely wouldn't have been taken seriously or laughed away.

Where as in today's age, a female can consent, then change her mind.. never tell the man and it's considered rape, and even though the female never says a word, the man can and very likely will find himself facing rape charges and potentially going to prison for a long term.

With that said.. yes Louis raped Betty, but she choose to forego criminal charges because she enjoyed herself I suppose. Still doesn't change the fact he raped her by using deceptive methods..

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I am so seriously waiting for this topic to make Headliner

That's what's missing! (the Jury is in)

Peanutlee33

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"well it was rape, he had sex with her under the guise of being someone else"

BS!!!

Then most of one night hookups would fall under that category, because most people tent to lie somewhat about stuff such as their names, jobs, schools, friends and especially social/money status (to better impress).

Who doesn't fudge/misrepresent important details about themselves to score? It's the oldest trick in the book, and women also play it.

Are they all rapists? Then Aladin and Cinderella would also be rapists (both misrepresenting themselves to woe a love interest).

It's like office sexual harassment/stalking: it's only that if the woman doesn't like the dude doing it. Otherwise, it's courtship.

In fact, if you get technical, any and all types of courtship can now be viewed/denounced as stalking/harassment.

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Misrepresenting yourself and fooling someone into thinking you are someone else entirely, a trusted lover, are very different things. Lets say there was a woman you hated or absolutely did not want to have sex with. If you thought you were having sex with your girlfriend and you were mislead into thinking that and afterwards its revealed that it was this person you hate or are disgusted by, would you think that's ok? Would you not feel violated?

I suppose Bill Cosby thought it wasn't rape either as he wasn't always forceful.

The character didn't tell her he was someone he wasn't when it came to him as a person, he totally, deliberately, duped her into thinking she was with her BF. That is very different than putting on airs to to try and get laid.

You couldn't go sneak into a married couples bedroom in the middle of the night, start having sex with someone's wife, and then turn the lights on and be like. "....Welp... you should have turned the lights. Gotcha." Then wink and stroll out of the room. Come on people.

"Cool will get ya dead." -Former NBA Power Forward, Karl Malone

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Saw this film in the theater back in the day. I didn't really think about it as rape back then. Just thought that it was cool that Louis tricked her into having sex with him. Today I admit I am very uncomfortable with the scene. It just doesn't feel right to me. Still can't believe that she thought it was Stan. Their body types aren't exactly close.

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Here's what the FBI has to say on the subject

The old definition was “The carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will.” Many agencies interpreted this definition as excluding a long list of sex offenses that are criminal in most jurisdictions, such as offenses involving oral or anal penetration, penetration with objects, and rapes of males.

The new Summary definition of Rape is: “Penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.”

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/recent-program-updates/new-rape-definition-frequently-asked-questions

The new summary definition went into effect in 2013, and in 1984 a shifty unethical lawyer may have been able to get Lewis off the hook if Betty pressed charges. Having said that, he could still be charged with assault.

But my big follow-up question is "how much of a catch is Betty?" She's clearly a sociopath who has no qualms in setting up Lewis and Gilbert with the Alpha Betas, as well as participating in animal cruelty when they turned the pigs loose in the Tri-Lam party.

And then you consider that after she is sexually assaulted by Lewis, she falls instantly in love, and ends a long-term relationship with an All-American QB who was presumably going to go pro in a few short months to hook up with Lewis right away. If you ask me, Lewis did Stan a favor by taking her off his hands.

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Does that mean Marla raped the narrator in Fight Club since he never agreed to have sex with her, Tyler did.

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I wonder what Robert Carradine and Julia Montgomery say about it these days?

Oderint Dum Metuant

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No way was that rape. All that kissing made her horny so she was on an adrenaline rush, but come on. Even with a mask on I still know my partner's hands and touch. Never mind penis size.... Betty wasn't raped at all. She was horny like a goat and was pleasured. She loved it.

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Sjw ruin good movies

The IMDB message boards you either die a good poster,or live long enough to become the troll

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That is an often debated scene. I will just chalk it up to that people thought differently back then. Pranks used to be more extreme and acceptable. Also, people weren't as filtered with their actions or words. Now, before we say or do anything, we have to strategize and think, "Is what I am about to say have the possibility of being conceived as racist, sexist, or homophobic?" Anybody reading this who is over the age of 40 knows what I mean that back then people just said what they thought without feeling bad about it.

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I guess I never thought about it at the time, but I can see definitely how people would assume that it was rape. I was 9 when I saw it.

Actually, the only thing I remember thinking was that she is dating a huge jock and this scrawny little nerd puts on a mask... and she can't tell it's not her huge jock boyfriend?

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It is rape. Betty even asked him to take the mask off but he shook his head and held her hands down to prevent it from being discovered. Betty had said no numerous times to him. Bitch or no bitch she made it clear she did not want him (even refusing to kiss him when being required to at the stall). And wheither he liked Stan or not, she was Stan's gf, not his. He was not only raping a girl but having sex with someone who was already taken, therefore tricking her into cheating.
The scene could have been much better if he'd revealed himself and she was so horny she decided to go along with it. But once he pins her arms down when she tried to take the mask off, it became a rape scene.
What pisses me off is that Lewis pretty much had the pick of the bunch at the omega mu party. Diane was a nice girl, she was nice to Lewis and they shared common interests. They danced together and she kissed him then had sex with him giving him his first sexual experience. Unlike Betty she liked him for him and didn't judge him. She seemed the perfect gf for him, but again he regects her because he wants someone who's better looking and obviously already has a boyfriend.
Gilbert was the lucky one. Judy loved him from day one. Betty could just as easily leave Lewis if she found someone was better in bed than him. That was her SOLE reason for breaking up with Stan.

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I was under the impression that Betty broke up with Stan simply because Stan wasn't a nice guy.

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To everyone saying it wasn't rape... if you don't think what Lewis did to Betty was considered rape I dare you to this with a girl who thinks you're repulsive...wear a disguise so she thinks it's her boyfriend...and have sex with her...then reveal it was you the entire time. See what happens lol

You got a 50/50 chance of her falling in love with you right then and there! Or her crying rape and you are a registered sex offender. I don't know about you but I ain't taking those odds.

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