MovieChat Forums > Red Dawn (1984) Discussion > I can't believe how stupid some people a...

I can't believe how stupid some people are...

posted 15 years ago by pndferpnd
47 replies | jump to latest

First off let me say I love this movie. I'm not saying that it's a great piece of cinema but I really enjoy it.

Now...that being said, some of the criticisms I am reading are just so stupid. Especially since most of them were explained or mentioned in the movie. I'll try to list some of the complaints I've seen and respond though I'm sure I'll miss some.

1) Why would the Russians attack a nothing town in Colorado and how did they get there in the first place?

-- Well...considering that the fictional town of Calumet was probably supposed to be located close to NORAD I would say that the Russians had a very good reason for being there. And as far as how they got there, I suggest you rewatch the scene where Powers Booth gives a quick update to the gang on what happened. He explains how all this happened..granted it's a nutshell version but it still explains it pretty well.

2) How did a bunch of high school kids suddenly know how to use all those weapons and how were they able to take out Russian trained units?

-- They didn't suddenly know how to use all those weapons. The story takes place over 3 or 4 months. They obviously figured out how to use the stuff over time. Guns aren't exactly brain surgery....it doesn't take a genius to figure them out. As far as taking out trained troops...um, they ambushed them. Besides, they weren't taking out batillions ready for battle....they were taking out supply convoys and execution squads. You see clearly that once the Russians take the threat from the Wolverines seriously, the Wolverines begin to unravel because they couldn't stand up against a trained military force.

3) Why didn't the Wolverines get any help from the military?

-- Because they were BEHIND ENEMY LINES. All this stuff is stated clearly during the movie. And as the Colonel stated...the lines had pretty much stabilized so no American troops were getting through. He also said that they were going to try to send green berets in to help in the spring. Jesus, do people actually pay attention to movies before they come on here to pick them apart?

That's all I can remember for now. Look...I'm not saying this film is a masterpiece but it certainly doesn't deserve the bashing it is recieving on these forums.

"How'd ya know my name was Mac?" - Mac

[–] StarrySkyWaltz 15 years ago

I don't think it deserves the bashing it gets either, but some people love to nitpick about every little thing.

[–] R011DaveAAA 15 years ago

Why would the Russians attack a nothing town in Colorado

Why they landed at that town is not mentioned in the film. It's unlikely that they'd mount a real airborne assault just to take a nothing town, so we can assume that it somehow fit into their operational plan and keep watching the movie.

and how did they get there in the first place?

By the grace of God and the screenwriter. The scenario is only very marginally plausible, and only then if you don't think too much about it.

Why didn't the Wolverines get any help from the military?

The Wolverines had no way to contact them to ask. Even if they did, it's quite possible that there would be no troops available. Not only is there active combat, but there isn't an infinite number of SF teams and they may all be tasked elsewhere. It may also be that Soviet forces have enough air and air defence assets to make an air-drop difficult.

[–] 15 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Midwesternman 15 years ago

While I like the movie myself that doesn't explain how they knew how to use the other stuff. I'm not sure but I seem to remember them using a bazooka or something in this movie, it's pretty hard to believe that using a hunting rifle is anything similar. But I agree its not as bad as some people say it is.

every day may not be good, but there is good in every day

[–] longbutter 14 years ago

RPGs are practically as simple as a gun. Point and shoot. They aren't like Stinger missiles which require a battery and training to operate (the battery is for the target lock system, and also for firing purposes) The SOVIET military and warsaw pact countries had raw recruits and they all weren't expertly trained, just like the Red Army WWII. The AK-47 is meant to be functional and easy. It is meant to be used to pound stakes into the ground by some farmer and then shot four seconds later if need be. The same goes for their standard RPGs which were based off the Nazi Panzerfaust which was as simple as those devices get (rudimentary aiming sight, firing trigger, ammo and disposable tube, that's it) Plus, it doesn't take very many shots before one figures out the dynamics of a weapon, as, again, they are designed to be simple, especially in the Red Army's case.

[–] boxerrebellion 11 years ago

You mean the AK doesn't have parts made by Mattel like the M-16? Yes, I'm being a smart alec, but I do find it silly that our weapons are partially made of plastic by a toy manufacturer - and that part can easily be broken by a PJ who lands on it.

[–] MadTom 11 years ago

You have obviously never handled a real rifle from the M16/M4 family of weapons. Definitely never saw one field-stripped, and I doubt if you've ever seen one up close. If you did, you'd know that even if they had been made by Mattel (which they weren't, no matter what the Urban Legends say), the plastic parts are reinforced with aluminum with the stock containing a recoil shock absorber system.

"[T]hat part can easily be broken by a PJ who lands on it." The US military has been training riflemen to let the butt of the M16 or M4 absorb the impact of the fall when dropping from a standing or running position to a prone position, since before I first put on the uniform in 1974.

Still think it's that fragile? Next time you see a soldier carrying an M16 or M4, why don't you ask him to butt-stroke you in the jaw with it?

[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] MadTom 11 years ago

"The US military has been training riflemen to let the butt of the M16 or M4 absorb the impact of the fall when dropping from a standing or running position to a prone position"

Not having a go, just interested, what you mean by that, could you explain how the butt would absorb the impact of you dropping to the ground?

Simple. When you drop to the prone position, you hold the rifle vertically in front of you, muzzle up with your shooting hand on the pistol grip, BUT WITH YOUR FINGERS OUTSIDE THE TRIGGER GUARD, and the other hand around the foregrip, with the top of the rifle toward you and the lower receiver group away from you. As the butt of the rifle impacts the ground, the rifle and your arm muscles absorb the impact (as opposed to your elbows-- OUCH!), and you let the rifle swing downward to the horizontal firing position and it's only a matter of positioning your upper body, particularly your shoulder and cheek against the stock, and you're ready to aim and shoot.

[–] the_la_baker 11 years ago

Why are you defending those sub-par weapons? Every service man/woman I know(A LOT) hates them. I'll take an M14 over M16/M4 any day.

[–] UberZoldat 11 years ago

In reality, these kids would not have been able to resist as long as they are shown to endure in the film. All it would have took was a gunship or two with thermal imaging to sweep and identify their location and finish them off. None of this courageous convoy ambushes and dispatch of elite Spetsnaz and going through the trouble of forcing a kid to swallow a transmitter.

One other scene of the film that I found ridiculous was the Cuban major's question of the mayor's son's participation in a "paramilitary organization" (Eagle Scouts). It comes off to the viewer as poking fun at the guy's stupidity when in reality the Soviets and Cubans themselves had the Pioneers scouting organization and this would not have appeared to be so suspicious.

I pretend to work because the Soviet government pretends to pay me.

[–] MadTom 11 years ago

Why are you defending those sub-par weapons? Every service man/woman I know(A LOT) hates them. I'll take an M14 over M16/M4 any day.

"I've never been in the military, but I know a lot of people who..." To me that immediately identifies the person as one of those whom Georgie Patton referred to as "The bilious bastards who... don't know anything more about [the military] than they to about f ***ing!" (And George C. Scott may have said "fornicating" in the movie, but the real Patton used the real F-word!)

[–] the_la_baker 11 years ago

My best friend of 20 years is SF. I've had 3 roommates that served(one in desert storm, one in Iraqi Freedom, and one in Enduring Freedom) and countless other friends that served in various engagements. I guess that means nothing you though.
BTW, Patton was probably insane, but I'm quite sure a patriarchal zealot like you will consider that very idea blasphemy.

[–] MadTom 11 years ago

My best friend of 20 years is SF. I've had 3 roommates that served(one in desert storm, one in Iraqi Freedom, and one in Enduring Freedom) and countless other friends that served in various engagements.

[sarcasm]Oh, my! That must look great on your resumé! [/sarcasm]

I guess that means nothing you though.

That's exactly right. Because YOU haven't walked the walk!

My brother is a retired surgeon who practiced for over 30 years. Anytime you want me to cut you open and start removing your internal organs, just let me know!

BTW, Patton was probably insane, but I'm quite sure a patriarchal zealot like you will consider that very idea blasphemy.

Since you presume I'm some "patriarchal zealot", I'm also guessing two things about you.

One, you're probably some frat boy who wouldn't hesitate to excoriate, both physically and verbally, any impostor who claimed to be a member of your frat who actually wasn't.

Two, your friends would probably be very upset with you if they knew you were making all these claims about weaponry and using them as your "authority" on the subject.

It's all about credibility. I am not telling you to STFU. Just keep talking the talk without having walked the walk. In fact, I'd encourage you to do so in some servicemen- and veteran-oriented bar in, say, Killeen, TX, Fayetteville, NC or Watertown, NY.

[–] MadTom 11 years ago

And let me take the occasion of what would've been Georgie Patton's 128th birthday (he was recovering in a hospital from a World War I battle wound when the Germans gave him a surrender for his 33rd birthday) to say that if liberating half a continent and contributing heavily to the defeat of the most genocidal totalitarian regime in world history is an indication of insanity, that's the kind of insanity that three generations of US Army Armor/Cavalry officers (myself included) have been aspiring to emulate since before his death 68 years ago!

I'm celebrating Patton's birthday as much as I'm celebrating Veterans Day today.

[–] nickm2 10 years ago

My brother is a retired surgeon who practiced for over 30 years. Anytime you want me to cut you open and start removing your internal organs, just let me know!

But you ARE a "head shrinker", Tom...surely that counts for something... ;-)

Why can't you wretched prey creatures understand that the Universe doesn't owe you anything!?

[–] txchuckwagon 15 years ago

1) Why would the Russians attack a nothing town in Colorado and how did they get there in the first place?

They do mention the reason the town was hit. When the Air Force Colonel (I think his name was Andy) is explaining how the war has unfolded, he talks about the airborne assault coming in disguised as commercial airliners. During his explanation, he says that they "took these passes in the Rockies", to which Jed responds "So that's what hit Calumet".

[–] gilbere71 15 years ago

This is probably the smartest thread on this board.
Its good to know everyone who posted here actually paid attention during the movie.

Daryl - "don't shoot me Jed, don't shoot..."
Robert - "i'll do it"

That still cracks me up :)

The Gunslinger smiled. "On the way to the Dark Tower," he said, "anything is possible."

[–] tstallw1987 15 years ago

Yes, it's also worth considering that the movie was heavily slanted towards the high school kids perceptions and viewpoint of events. The movie does explain in snippets here and there some of the whys, but mostly it's just about how this certain group reacted in this "what if" scenario.

Probably my biggest beef with the movie is a sequence right when the kids get into the swing of being guerrillas that they show a bunch of attacks and playing heroic music. It seemed a bit out of place for the otherwise somber nature of the movie, and detracted a bit from the realism to me. Minor nit though.

[–] 15 years ago

[deleted]

[–] cleverfox 14 years ago

That was one of my favorite scenes, too, for a couple of reasons.

1. It shows how much "hardened" towards the whole thing Robert has become since the beginning of the aggression. His character was kinda soft in the beginning.

2. C. Thomas Howell and Darren Dalton were on opposite social sides in "The Outsiders" as well.

Whatever doesn't kill me only makes me stronger. How strong are you?

[–] mule_009-1 15 years ago

I agree with the beatles guy, This movie rocks!!! Robert rules! WOLVERINES!!!!

Some people say i hear what i want to hear, so i tell them yes thank you, i just got it cut!

[–] StoneGriffin 15 years ago

I saw this in the movie theatres, and even though I was already IN the armed forces at the time, it still captured the sense of dread of the Cold War. (of course a lot of buddies in active service were kinda pissed that it looked like we (the US Military) (a) failed utterly at stopping a land invasion and (b) were basically MIA while kids were fighting the good fight for us. I think I was the only guy in my unit that saw past that and liked the movie! hahaha) Heck it was a fun "What If" scenario that bashed the Commies. I don't like the people today who trash talk "American Propaganda" when they weren't even old enough to remember the Cold War and how frightening it was. They're all looking at the film through the prism of current events, not appreciating the mind set of the time. It's easy to trash talk people who hated the Rooskies, but hell, I faced them when I was stationed in West Germany. I still remember how we felt when ANOTHER innocent East German DIED trying to sneak across the border or make a run across 'THE WALL'. It was atrocious and at the time ... we hated the Communists. It was a normal response to the brutality of the Iron Curtain's various regimes.

People just don't remember the Cold War and how we all felt during it. When the wall fell, it took me YEARS to overcome my engrained distrust and dislike of Russians, but I got over it. The same for anyone at the end of a "hot war" like World War 2 or Vietnam, or the "Cold War". It takes time, but we all eventually see our former foes as human beings. It's completely gone now (as it should be) and I smile when I see other solders ... former Vietnam vets visiting Hanoi or WW2 vets meeting Japanese or German Vets (all old men now) and toasting to their lost friends and comrades. :)

Red Dawn was a really COOL flick and fun action piece. Sure I could nitpick the military, tactical or plot hole problems, but the trash talking it gets from people nowadays is unfair.

Dr. Kila Marr was right. Kill the Crystalline Entity.

[–] guer0071 15 years ago

Yeah, but...but...but...that's not what my professor said!!!....haha

[–] rickb69 9 years ago

Your professor must have been Sam Kinison AKA Professor Terguson in Back to School talking about WWII and asking one of the girls about it, she looked like she was going to cry. Rodney Dangerfield AKA Thornton Melon said "Hey leave these kids alone, they were still in diapers and me I'm a lover not a fighter."
Professor Terguson said something to the effect "OK Mr. know it all what was the reason for... Say it SAY IT SAAY IT
Thornton Melon "Because Truman was too big of a pussy to do anything."

I have twin boys, Pete and Repete

[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] lorisls 7 years ago

Thank you for your service and insight!

[–] StoneGriffin 15 years ago

You didn't read what I wrote did you. So how old are you again?

Dr. Kila Marr was right. Kill the Crystalline Entity.

[–] 15 years ago

[deleted]

[–] StoneGriffin 15 years ago

Ah, yes. "Your Country". Another foreigner (to us) and another America hater. No more words are needed. But you should openly disclose what you are BEFORE you write critiques lest people get fooled into thinking that you know what you are talking about.....

Dr. Kila Marr was right. Kill the Crystalline Entity.

[–] 15 years ago

[deleted]

[–] philbrowna 15 years ago

I certainly hope this was not supposed to be a serious comment......

[–] FourDeuce 15 years ago

"need I remind you of the chemical weapons used in Vietnam that left half a million babies deformed and another half a million people dead?"

Looks like you might be referring to Agent Orange. If you think that is a "chemical weapon", you don't understand what chemical weapons ARE. Swallowing anti-American propaganda is no way to actually LEARN the truth.

"My Lai massacre?"

That wasn't done by the United States. It was done by some soldiers who happened to be American. If you can't understand the difference you shouldn't be trying to discuss the subject. It's over your head.

"USS Vincenes shot down an airline killing all 290 people on board."

Your lack of comprehension just reveals that you swallow propaganda instead of learning the truth and thinking for yourself. That might be good enough for you if all you want to do is attack America, but you shouldn't be surprised when somebody calls you on your BS.

[–] R011DaveAAA 15 years ago

You know that the US is just as brutal

A median range estimate of the people murdered by Communists in the twentieth century is about 92 million people. A good third of that was done or encouraged by the Soviet Union.

need I remind you of the chemical weapons used in Vietnam that left half a million babies deformed and another half a million people dead?

And a similar number of American soldiers affected as well. Compare the use of chemical defoliants, though, with the deliberate use of poison gas against civilians in Afghanistan.

What about Project Phoenix?

What about it? Enemy combatants are always legitimate targets in wartime.

My Lai massacre?

An acknowledged crime. Similar things were done as a matter of policy by the Soviets fighting partisans in Eastern Europe and Afghanistan. Indeed, they were done by the Soviet's allies in Vietnam on a very much larger scale. When the Communists do it, the perpetrators get promoted, not punished.

USS Vincenes shot down an airline killing all 290 people on board.

The Soviets shot down more than one airliner, and they didn't have the excuse that they were under fire at the time.