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Julia, the Thought Police, and other matters.

posted 4 years ago by BullSchmidt (3189)
5 replies | jump to latest

This is a reply to another post in this section, but I'm posting it in a separate thread because it's quite long, and also because it goes beyond the immediate question into my general understanding of 1984, which is perhaps different from many people's.

twilightdweller said:

I always thought that she wasn't, but re-reading "1984" O'Brien tells Winston that he was working on him for seven years until the time he was arrested. It seems like a huge coincidence that she happens to initiate a sexual relationship with Winston just before his arrest, and she was needed for Room 101 to work on him. In order to break him he had to betray her. Also, she was described as being young and beautiful while Winston was old and in poor health, so it doesn't seem likely she would be interested in him on her own.

It's an interesting idea, and I've heard others opine that she's "too good to be true," but ultimately I don't buy it.

First I have to say that we need to be a little cautious about drawing conclusions from specific data points in 1984. The story is more allegorical than a realistic projection of "what might happen," and although a consistent and sensible fictional universe is necessary for a story to work, Orwell sacrificed realism at times to make his allegory work. There are parts of 1984 that simply don't make sense. For example, it's stated that by 2050 no Party member will be able to understand Oldspeak (standard English), but the proles will. But it's also stated that although the Party mostly lets the proles be, it does monitor and propagandize to them in a general way, for example, to whip them up into a frenzy for Hate Week. But how will the Party do these things in 2050 if its members can't understand what the proles are saying? As realism it's nonsensical; as allegory it's brilliant.

Another reason for caution is that we only see things through Winston's eyes, and he's got some serious mental problems. He muses that the Party can warp reality into any shape it chooses. But because he's terrified of letting anyone else know what he's thinking, he never (until meeting Julia) discusses his doubts and fears with anyone else ... and so never gets any sort of reality check on his imaginings. *He's* also free to warp reality into any shape, at least reality beyond what he can immediately see and hear; he doesn't do it out of a desire to control reality, but because there's no restraint on his fear and paranoia. 1984 is about Winston's ultimate destruction, but it's also about how much he's already been warped and half-broken at the story's beginning just from living in a society like Oceania.

With those caveats stated ...

I think it's a mistake to rely upon anything O'Brien says. He'd certainly lie if it suited the Party's purposes. And the same applies to anything in Goldstein's book, which was pretty clearly constructed specifically for Winston. The Party has book writing machines to produce rubbish for proles; it probably also has a "Goldstein-book writing machine" which makes a product tailor-made for a specific victim after some parameters are input -- e.g., Winston's particular terror regarding the existence of the past, "two plus two make four," etc.

Also, consider these things ...

First, Winston, Parsons, and Ampleforth were all arrested at the same time. That implies that they (and presumably many others) weren't arrested specifically because of things they had done recently, but as part of a general purge. And note that their arrests were just after the ordeal of work was completed following Oceania's change of enemies. That makes sense for a general purge -- leave them free to contribute their labor to that ordeal of work, *then* arrest them.

Second, there's quite a bit of corruption within the Party. Proles aren't supposed to drink gin but can get it easily enough. Winston is amazed that Julia can get real coffee, sugar, et cetera -- but at one point while strolling through a prole neighborhood he smelled real coffee from a building there. But how could these things happen unless Party members were selling these things, giving them away to favored domestic servants, or being criminally lax in safeguarding them from theft? And Winston himself shops in the black market, but only for items (e.g., razor blades) which have become so scarce and sought by so many that it's become obvious the Party will allow him to purchase there. And the corruption goes further. Prostitution is rampant and Party members are tacitly encouraged to avail themselves occasionally. Julia claims that sex is her favorite leisure activity and that she's had numerous affairs with other Outer Party members, and although one might suspect her of some exaggeration there's really no reason to disbelieve her. And if she's doing this, and she's had that many lovers, it stands to reason that there are a lot of other Party members we never hear about who are having forbidden assignations.

(continued below)

[–] BullSchmidt (3189) 4 years ago

Third, note that despite Winston's fears and his longing to act against the Party, nothing actually happens to him until *after* he rents Charrington's room. Only after *that* does O'Brien approach him about the Newspeak dictionary; for that matter, it's only then that O'Brien shows any real sign of knowing who Winston is.

Finally, who is Winston? A high power in the Inner Party? No, he's an ordinary drone. There's no reason for the Inner Party to expend a tremendous effort over seven years on someone as unimportant as him.

Now, after all that, here's my take on it.

The Party has the ability to seek out *all* copies of a book, a past issue of a newspaper, et cetera, and destroy them to update the past. It's also powerful enough that it's possible they might be actively listening to *every* telescreen, all the time. Again, Orwell sacrificed realism for allegory -- as realism these things are absurd. But if we accept them as realism for the sake of the story, it's also possible and even more plausible that they do *not* actively monitor everyone but simply record everything from all the telescreens and microphones and file it away, to be reviewed if ever necessary.

O'Brien tells Winston the Party is not interested in overt acts, only the thoughts behind them. He also says they've been aware of Winston's unorthodoxy for seven years. But if those things were true -- why⁯ didn't they arrest him seven years ago?

Why? Becuase O'Brien is lying.

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[–] BullSchmidt (3189) 4 years ago

The Party is not terribly concerned with thoughts, only with overt acts. O'Brien had no idea who Winston was until recently. But even if they did notice Winston seven years ago, he was still a productive worker, did his job well, was causing no real harm, and was too terrified to do any harm.

O'Brien later convinces Winston that he's been under their intense scrutiny for seven years, and there's nothing about him that's secret from the Inner Party -- they even know about the speck of dust he used to see if his diary was disturbed.

No. Winston's mistake was renting Charrington's room. Until that he wasn't even a blip on the Inner Party's radar, but that was too blatant to not be noticed. Only after that did the Inner Party search his apartment, read his diary, review the years of recordings of him from microphones and telescreens, generate a Goldstein book tailored to him, learn about Winston's fascination with O'Brien and so send him to dangle the bait, etc.

It's true that during the interrogation, O'Brien states several times that Winston is thinking a certain thought, to the extent that he seems to almost be telepathic. But by this time he's read Winston's diary, studied the recordings of him, etc. And he's also experienced at interrogation and has been through this with many other victims. In addition to having studied Winston and gotten to know him very well, he also knows very well the things thoughtcriminals generally would think.

Had Winston and Julia not rented Charrington's room but instead kept their liaisons confined to abandoned buildings and such, they might have continued successfully for years, or even decades. Julia said in the book that as long as you obeyed the small rules you could break the big ones. Tragically she had it exactly backwards. Oceania is a place where as long as you obey the big rules you can break the small ones.

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[–] BullSchmidt (3189) 4 years ago

As for Julia ... you say she's young and beautiful, and Winston is old and in poor health. But her first affair was at age sixteen with a sixty year old man. I don't think the twelve year age difference between her and Winston would bother her much. And her attraction to him? Well, he was obviously fascinated by her. And he admitted to himself at one point that his hatred of her was because he wanted to sleep with her and never could. She probably saw him looking at her a few times and -- having reveled in sex for her entire adult life -- recognized what he was thinking and was turned on by it. Sometimes, just being wanted is a powerful aphrodisiac.

Beautiful? No. She clearly wasn't ugly, but just after their first lovemaking, Winston mused that except for Julia's mouth she could not be called beautiful. We're talking about the book here, but I think the filmmakers got her right -- take an actress who's pretty without being glamorous, give her an unflattering hairstyle, and film her sometimes from her "bad side" to make her look rather harsh ... and then sometimes (when she's with Winston) film her from her good side and with flattering lighting to bring out her femininity.

I also think they got it right in another way. Before he gets together with Julia, so much of the movie is devoted to Winston's imaginings and such that it's at times difficult for someone who hasn't read the book to keep things straight. But Winston does live in a terrible, half-psychotic mental prison of his own creation. It's only after he starts "dating" Julia that he approaches mental health -- recognizing the humanity of the proles, becoming ashamed of his former contempt for them and indifference to their deaths and suffering, etc. In the book he improves physically -- he puts on some weight, his ulcer begins healing, and so on. It seems to me that's also a metaphor for the mental healing he goes through.

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[–] BullSchmidt (3189) 4 years ago

Regarding Winston's poor health ... It's inconsistent. He's able to go on long walks without straining himself, and does so frequently. But on the other hand, he starts each morning with a coughing fit, and can't climb stairs without having to stop and rest ... which doesn't sound to me like a thirty-nine year old, sedentary man, but instead a man in his mid-forties dying of tuberculosis. I wonder if that particular description of Winston was Orwell himself injecting his own personal frustrations and miseries.

Finally, the idea that Julia was necessary for Room 101 is intriguing and something I had never considered, but after thinking it over I have to disagree. As O'Brien said, Room 101 contains the worst thing in the world, which varies from person to person. In Winston's case it's rats. Had he never met Julia, that fear could have been used against him in other ways; maybe convince him his mother is still alive, then get him to scream "Do it to Mom! Not me!" Or maybe in some other way, not requiring him to interpose another person between himself and the rats.

So, to sum it up, Winston was an ordinary, unimportant member of the Outer Party, driven to half-insane paranoia and terror by living in Oceania, grossly overestimating the real gravity of mere heretical thoughts without actions. He and Julia got together because of their mutual attraction. At first they were successful in conducting their affair by keeping it low key, just as probably many other Party members were doing. They stupidly committed an act which was bound to get them noticed and punished. And the Party used Winston's own delusions to break him.

Anyway, I've blathered long enough. Those are my thoughts on the matter, which you're getting for free and are probably worth what you paid for them. ;)

[–] Dolemite (79) 2 years ago

Good analysis!