MovieChat Forums > The Natural (1984) Discussion > Intentional walk

Intentional walk

posted 13 years ago by redleader98
6 replies | jump to latest

I just saw this movie for the first time last night. Why didn't the other team walk Roy with the tired pitcher and then just bring in the big strapping Nebraska farm boy to strike out the next batter that was probably hitting .187? I know loading the bases is ludicrous but they lost the game anyway. I think the judge should have continue to play dirty and call the other team to walk Hobbs. Since we are in a winner take all situation.

Yeah and I had to set aside the 48 year old Redford playing a 36 year old baseball player. Maybe he will replace Micheal Cera in Scott Pilgrim II?

[–] senob44 13 years ago

The next batter was probably quite a good hitter as well, as Roy bats in the 3rd spot in the lineup and the 4th spot is the "cleanup hitter" often a good slugger. We just haven't been shown this other guy since Roy is the focus of the movie. Also Roy has struck out twice already in the game and is after all still a 36 year old rookie, so although walking him was a possibility, the other team really had no reason not to pitch to Hobbs.

As far as the Judge calling the other team to walk Hobbs, I think that type of thing would be very unlikely. Even if he tried, I don't think (especially during the game itself) that the other team would even entertain any offers or discussions from the other team's owner. Again though, even the Judge had no reason to "know" Hobbs would be the guy to end up the hero. Just as bad for him if the number 4 hitter knocked one out!

And I don't think Redford as a middle-aged baseball player was very much of a stretch. After a hard life like his, I wouldn't be surprised if Hobbs looked a little old for his age anyway. I would say if there was a stretch at all, it would have definitely been the young 20-something Hobbs being played by Redford also, in the beginning of the movie, up until the shooting. But for continuity they had him play Hobbs all the way through, which other movies have done also, so you just set it aside a little as you mentioned for that. ;)

[–] RevisedAndExpanded 13 years ago

Hobbs looked sick at the plate and in the field all game ... and was bleeding from the abdomen. For all intents and purposes, he was no better than the .187 hitter. Probably worse.

I can't recall the circumstances of the film. I know Hobbs was the winning run, but wasn't there a man on first? If that was the case, then walking Hobbs puts the winning run on base and the tying run in scoring position. It wouldn't be shrewd to intentionally walk a wounded player in that situation.

Look at it this way -- if you were Tony Larussa in the 1988 World Series, would you walk Kirk Gibson? In hindsight, sure ... but as he came up to the plate, it was never considered an option.

As for the Judge calling the other team: First, he wouldn't be that stupid -- it would be a huge risk to count on the other team to keep quiet about such a thing; he'd end up in jail. Second, there wouldn't have been an opportunity. There were no phones in the dugout in those days, so he'd have to go through the opposition off-field management team, and they'd have to somehow get down to the dugout to pass the message on to the manager, who would then have to decide whether to do what the other team's owner wanted. There wouldn't be time for any of this to occur, and even if there was ... well, would YOU take the advice of another team's owner?

[–] turtletommy 13 years ago

I'm with you guys, I think there were good enough reasons not to walk Hobbs at that point and just deal with him. Besides, in Pride of the Yankees the other team tried to intentionally walk Lou Gehrig and he just leaned out and crushed a homer for that crippled little kid in the hospital, remember? (-:

[–] stryychbilly 13 years ago

The other manager screwed up, royally. He should have started Youngberry to close the 9th inning or left his starter in to finish the game. He also should have had his thirdbaseman playing no-doubles and guarding the lines with Olsen up. Either one of these moves would have ended the game before Hobbs even got to bat. Personally, I would have left the starting pitcher in the game to finish pitching to Hobbs and pitch around him with the 2-0 count and unintentionally walk him. No way do I bring in a rookie with a 2-0 count with the tying runs on base and two outs in the 9th to face the best hitter on the other team. Yes, Youngberry has, according to the Knight's announcer, the "best fastball in the game" but if you're going to bring him in at all, why not bring him in to START the 9th inning? He probably would have gotten the first two hitters out and then Vivens or Olsen out and the game is over and Hobbs doesn't get his 3rd at bat (which should have been in the bottom of the 7th, not the bottom of the 9th - the film makers screwed up too *). Waiting until the tying runs were on base - and best hitter on the team up at the plate with a 2-0 count to bring in a rookie pitcher was VERY foolish. The starting pitcher hadn't walked anyone (as far as we know) and had allowed only 3 hits to that point in the game, a single which the hitter was thrown out BY A MILE going to two, a double by Vivens (who should have stayed at first with a single - with 2 outs in the 9th and down by tow his run was completely meaningless - he could have taken second base on defensive indifference on the first pitch to Olsen - who should have been taking). Olsen's "hit" should have been scored an error and was not the pitcher's fault. The official scorer must have owed ten bucks to Olsen because the thirdbaseman bobbled the ball for the first error allowing Olsen to reach first then threw wildly to first for a second error pulling the firstbaseman off the bag who almost made a great play catching and tagging Olsen. Olsen pulled an "A-Rod" and knocked the ball loose which allowed Vivens to run to third (bad baserunning on Vivens' part again as his run was still meaningless - and if he pulls a hammy or sprains an ankle on the way to third he's the final out). If the thirdbaseman is positioned properly, Olsen's grounder is an easy, game ending ground out.

* Somehow, Roy only got to bat 3 times in this game. Batting third, he should have been up for the 3rd time BEFORE the 9th inning. Somewhere either the Knights batted out of order or Roy got up another time which was never shown in the film.

[–] riderscanucks 13 years ago

Man, that is seriously the best/funniest post I've seen on IMDB. Well done sir, great analysis.

[–] Strunkinator 13 years ago

Just so we're clear - Youngberry was the starting pitcher for Pittsburgh. The closer that comes in to face Hobbs was named John Rhodes.

But what reason did Pittsburgh's manager have for NOT letting Youngberry go out in the 9th? He was pitching a NEAR PERFECT GAME at that point, and half of the 24 outs already were strikeouts. The radio commentator even says that Youngberry was completely overpowering the whole Knights lineup.

This is how the Knights lineup went in the final game:

(Vivens, Olsen and Hobbs are the first three hitters)

1ST INNING - Vivens, Olsen and Hobbs

2ND INNING - 4, 5 and 6

3RD INNING - 7, 8 and 9

4TH INNING - Vivens, Olsen and Hobbs (second strikeout)

5TH INNING - I'll say... 4, 5, 6 and 7 (somebody had to get a hit around here and was left stranded on base)

6TH INNING - 8, 9 and Vivens

7TH INNING - It should've gone Olsen, Hobbs and the 4th hitter gets the single into left and is tagged out sliding into 2nd.

This is where the film screws up. Hobbs should've struck out for the 3rd time here. Instead, this is when he reads Iris's note in the dugout.

8TH INNING - 5, 6 and 7

So as you can see, Pittsburgh's starter Youngberry has only given up two hits and left just one runner stranded. Then comes the 9TH INNING:

8 and 9 make the first two outs.

Then Vivens gets the double for the third hit Youngberry has given up. Not a big deal.

Then Olsen gets on by error and Vivens advances to third. Not the pitcher's fault. Youngberry is still left in.

Then Hobbs comes up and Youngberry finally starts flubbing pitches, so they immediately replace him with Rhodes. And the rest is history.

How do you like that piece of satire?