MovieChat Forums > Exterminator 2 (1984) Discussion > Deleted scenes and MPAA cuts

Deleted scenes and MPAA cuts


Exterminator 2. One of the worst movies that i have seen. I'm a fan of gritty movies from 70's and 80's,but to watch this movie without fast forwarding through certain scenes is impossible. That said,i'm still interested in founding out more about all of the problems that movie had during its production.

I know that rough cut of the movie was either very poorly made or too violent for Canon studio and MPAA,so a lot of the stuff was filmed as a reshoot.

Ofter rumored info about X rated version available on some legal VHS editions in Europe is proven false,so i'm sure that nobody knows what exactly was cut for R rating. Still,if anyone happens to know something about MPAA cuts or first version of the movie,please let me know.

I know that there is workprint of first cut available amongst fans around USA and Europe(?),and few people already written to me before about some scenes which allegedly are available in workprint,but knowing how unreliable second hand info is,specially when it's from internet,i would like to hear what somebody else would have to say about this.

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I know that club explosion scene was cut. You can see some parts of the scene in theatrical trailer. Do you know what other scenes were cut from the final film? Because from what it looked and sounded in theatrical trailer workprint should be closer to the first film - more character build ect.

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Do you know what other scenes were cut from the final film?


This is everything that i know about deleted scenes from Exterminator 2. This report is based from all the info i read on internet sites, forums and message boards plus from pictures of deleted scenes on old lobby cards and glimpses of deleted scenes in theatrical trailer;


Original cut did not have scenes where Eastland burns down gang members with flamethrower. That means that two street scenes where he burns several guys and scene where he burns black guy who is sitting on the tree were parts of the re-shoots done with body/stunt double for actor Robert Ginty who played Eastland. If you look closely, you can tell that in the scene where Eastland burns down two gang members who just killed someone with knife shot of Eastland that is used is actually outtake from first flamethrower burning scene in the begining of the movie.

Helicopter crash and club explosion scene was originally longer and (maybe) edited differently. Unlike in the theatrical version, Be Gee and John first meet each other on streets, go into the club and then the scene where gang robs armored car and shoots down police helicopter happens. Helicopter crashes onto the club causing fiery explosion (seen in trailer). After that, John and Caroline are trying to help out everyone who got hurt during the explosion while Be Gee goes to try and stop armored car robbery by attacking the gang with his garbage truck. Then John also shows up in the scene and also tries to stop the robbery by fighting with gang members. One lobby card shows him throwing wheel cap at one of the gang members during this scene. Trailer also shows parts of the chase scene with Be Gee chasing the gang members who are driving the armored car with his truck. After the fight, X confronts John by staring and pointing his finger at him (seen in trailer). Then police shows up and everyone escape. John also runs from cops and hides in some place. Then somehow he gets into contact with Caroline who helps him out because he got wounded in head during the club explosion.

Based on what i seen in trailer, originally there was a chase scene where X's thugs are going after John and Caroline who are driving in garbage truck. During the chase couple of thugs jump onto sides of the truck.

Caroline is not gang raped and murdered in original cut. Often rumored deleted rape scene is therefore not true cause it was never filmed. In the final version scene where Eastland finds her dead body was done with Ginty's body double (notice how his face is never shown) with some close ups of Ginty (lifted from some other scene) inserted.

Ending of the movie was originally different. Original final confrontation between X and Eastland did not include cat and mouse game in factory building and X didn't die by explosion set up by Eastland. Based on some behind the scenes making of footage, lobby cards and some other info i heard, originally X and Eastland get into the brawl and then X gets shot by Caroline who has arrived in her wheelchair. When some cops show up, Eastland puts X in the back of the truck and chase starts between Eastland in his garbage truck and cop cars. I don't know was X live or dead in this scene, but one lobby card shows him wounded in arm and kneeling on the ground in front of the Eastland's garbage truck while some cop is pointing his shotgun at him. Chase ends with Eastland's truck crashing into the river and X's body floating out. I don't know does Eastland survives or not.

Re-shot ending which was used in final version was filmed with Mario Van Peebles and Ginty's stunt double. Just like with many other scenes which were filmed during the re-shoots, Ginty's face is never shown until the very end when X gets blown up by exterminator's trap and falls on spikes while covered in fire. However the shot of Ginty taking his mask off in that scene is actually outtake from earlier scene where he burns few gang members during the factory showdown. You can actually see that he starts taking of his helmet after he burns gang members but scene cuts before he does that.
Although some graphic action scenes were already deleted or changed from original cut of the movie, when it was submitted to the MPAA Exterminator 2 was rated X because of the violence and it had to be cut for R rating. According to interview with film doctor William Sachs who did the re-shoots and re-editing of the movie only opening robbery scene where old guy gets shot was cut, originally he was shown being hit with all six bullets instead of just one.

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Just watching it now, thanks for taking the time to fill us in as I was wondering this. Peebles is great in it but I do prefer the original. Its a shame they dont release these some of these b movie gems cleaned up and uncut.

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Update -

Pictures (lobby cards and stills) of deleted scenes + Missing footage shown in trailer and making of documentary;


John looks at the wounded and dead people inside the club after helicopter crashes onto it and explodes;

http://www.moviestillsdb.com/media/pictures/m/f0/f0e3a2e05c11fb8b5f18a f345a73021f.jpg

Dead cop in helicopter;

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-LrAhYRTuUdw/TYE6A_Jsl8I/AAAAAAAAAXg/UUG1MqXW Xvc/s1600/exterminator2.jpg

Caroline helps someone who was injured during club explosion;

http://wrongsideoftheart.com/wp-content/gallery/lobby_cards/exterminat or_2_glc_09.jpg

John fights with gang members on the streets after the helicopter crash and club explosion, during the fight he throws a wheel cap on one of the gang members who jumps on Be Gee's truck when he tries to stop the robbery of armored car;

http://wrongsideoftheart.com/wp-content/gallery/lobby_cards/exterminat or_2_glc_12.jpg

After cops show up and everyone escape from the scene, wounded John (his head got hurt during the club explosion) is hiding somewhere;

http://wrongsideoftheart.com/wp-content/gallery/lobby_cards/exterminat or_2_glc_01.jpg

Then he goes to Caroline who helps him out and takes care of his injury;

http://wrongsideoftheart.com/wp-content/gallery/lobby_cards/exterminat or_2_glc_07.jpg

Scene where X and some of his guys attack Caroline was longer;

http://wrongsideoftheart.com/wp-content/gallery/lobby_cards/exterminat or_2_glc_14.jpg


This lobby card set shows two pictures from original ending where X fights with John but gets shot by Caroline who arrives at the scene in her wheelchair, then cops show up but John puts X in garbage truck and after a chase between him and cops he crashes with his garbage truck into the river. Then dead body of X is shown floating out.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_8YsWNKIaCrw/TUbdkUxRtfI/AAAAAAAAAOk/PmtF9UX7 aJY/s1600/SNB12778.JPG

X and John fight scene (left side, fourth card down)

Cops show up and one points his shotgun at wounded X (right side, third card down)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLQXoUbwljc

Theatrical trailer shows following deleted and alternate scenes;

Club explosion scene that happens after gang shoots down police helicopter which crashes on it (0:20). Helicopter pilot is shown burning little longer while he tries to get out of the burning helicopter (0:22). There is also a shot of wounded John looking at this helplessly (0:24).

John and Caroline are trying to help someone who got hurt during explosion by pressing something on his wound (0:31).

Little different cut of dialogue scene in the club between John and Be Gee, scene is edited differently (0:38 - 0:45).

X pointing at something and screaming while standing on armored car (0:45).

Chase scene between Be Gee's garbage truck and armored car driven by gang members (0:48).

Another deleted chase scene is shown. John and Caroline are driving in garbage truck but they are attacked by gang members who jump onto sides of the truck but John manages to get rid of one when he slams him into the light pole or something (0:50 - 0:54).

After the entire mess with armored car robbery, helicopter crash and club explosion and John's fight with gang members, X and John meet each other for the first time face to face and X points his finger at John (0:55).

Couple more extra shots from the scene when gang members attack Caroline (0:58 and 1:01).

Alternate (mirrored ?) shot of X shooting at Bee Gee (1:34).

It looks like there is some more extra shots or alternate scenes in trailer.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5MEaL352wg

This behind the scenes making of documentary shows filming of ending showdown, and it also shows couple parts of original ending.

Actress who played Caroline on the set of the place where ending takes place talking with director (1:08) and both her and Robert Ginty rehearsing the scene with her in wheelchair, originally her character didn't die and in the ending when John fights with X she shows up in her wheelchair and shoots X in arm (1:43).

Ginty and Mario Van Peebles rehearsing their fight/brawl scene from the original ending (4:37).

Ginty and Peebles filming their fight scene and Peebles gets up and shoots at someone offscreen (Caroline) but gets shot in arm. (14:37 - 14:50)

At 7:37 mark director Mark Butzman mentions "truck spinning on the wet street" during filming. Maybe he refers to one of the deleted chase scenes?

Another interesting thing is that this documentary shows clips from the movie where Exterminator burns down gang members with flamethrower, but there are numerous reports mentioning that all the "vigilante flamethrower" scenes were filmed during re-shoots, which is why this documentary can be a little confusing due to the footage that is featured in it. Then again, even the theatrical trailer is bit of a confusing mess cause it also includes footage from both versions of the movie.

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http://hidden-films.com/2012/10/22/the-hollywood-fixer-galaxina-direct or-william-sachs/

Interview with film doctor William Sachs who directed re-shoots and was in charge of re-editing of Exterminator 2;

The title character metes out justice while wearing a flame-proof mask, a decision made by Sachs (who replaced the original director, Mark Buntzman, in mid-production), when Ginty’s contract was up and he had to leave the project.

“Bob Ginty was supposed to be doing another movie and they wouldn’t release him,” Sachs continued. “I said, ‘I’ll fix it so you don’t need him.’ I couldn’t get any other stars, so that’s where I came up with the idea. There’s one shot of Ginty with the welding mask working on the garbage truck, and he lifts his mask and has a little torch. So I just used that shot at the end. I turned him into a vigilante with a welding mask for the whole rest of the movie.”

Ginty’s departure wasn’t the only problem that needed immediate fixing. Due to budget constraints, the crew was forced to relocate the shoot to LA.

“They started shooting in New York, and they went so far over budget that they moved it to LA,” Sachs explained. “They spent double their budget, it was supposed to be $1.5 million and they got to $3 million and they’d shot like 40 minutes. I had been working on the movie in New York as a co-producer. So I brought it to LA, and I had to ship the garbage truck from New York, because the ones in New York are metal and the ones in LA are fiberglass, because of the weight restrictions. We got permission. We have scenes where [the truck] goes around the corner of one street in New York, and the other’s in LA. We threw garbage in the streets and painted the curbs in LA a different color, to make it look like New York.”

The production’s initial struggles were probably due to Buntzman’s inexperience handling a large film crew.

“I was in New York just to watch, and I saw what was going wrong,” said Sachs. “If you can’t make a decision, everyone starts giving you their two cents until it’s a committee. Mark Buntzman couldn’t make a certain decision, so the script supervisor had an idea and the DP had an idea, and soon there was a meeting going on. A directing lesson: if someone asks ‘Where do I point the camera?’ you just point. The first thing that comes into your head, you just say “there.” Nine times out of ten, it’s the right place. And if it’s not, you say later, ‘Well, I thought about it and it’d be better over here.’ But if you don’t give an answer, you lose them.”

According to Sachs, the character of X got his name due to more indecisiveness from Buntzman, who couldn’t think of a better name. It was also Sachs’ idea to make the character more central.

Even in post-production, the film met with some troubles. The MPAA made Sachs cut down a gory early scene in which an elderly couple is shot up by the gang.

“I’m not really excited about violent stuff,” said Sachs.”When you’re shooting it, it’s fun, but something a little more realistic affects people. When we shot that scene, the DP said it was the most realistic thing he ever saw. The squib and the gun went off in the same frame. It was timed perfectly, by luck, and you don’t usually see that. We had six shots and ended up with one quick shot.”

Sachs does not remember working with John Turturro, but he had a funny anecdote to share about the casting of Arye Gross. “He came in and read for me, and he was talking like Marlon Brando, through his nose. It was fantastic, so I gave him the part. And when we did the scene, he didn’t talk like that. I said, ‘You’re not talking like you did in your reading!’ And he said, ‘I had a cold.'”

Again, from a credit standpoint, “Exterminator 2″ did not end happily for Sachs. He tried to get co-director credit but wound up accepting a co-writer and “additional scenes directed by” credit due to a legal battle with Buntzman. “I joined the Director’s Guild after that,” he said.


Btw, i think Sachs made a small mistake in this part; "There’s one shot of Ginty with the welding mask working on the garbage truck, and he lifts his mask and has a little torch. So I just used that shot at the end."

I think he actually refers to a shot at the end after X dies and Ginty is shown taking the mask off, that shot was (obviously) taken from previous scene where he burns last few gang members.

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Have these cuts affected the music score in anyway?

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