MovieChat Forums > E la nave va (1983) Discussion > Will this film be a waste of my life?

Will this film be a waste of my life?

posted 18 years ago by rooprect
19 replies | jump to latest

I'm having severe trouble liking Fellini movies, having attempted to watch 3. I understand that Fellini, much like Tarkovsky, does not put a whole lot of thematic/plot substance into his films but rather relies on setting a poetic mood. To me, It's a bit like the effect of new age music: pleasing but largely without structure. Am I wrong?

Also, the comments from imdb reviewers seem to suggest that this film is not very clear--a stunning acheivement in cinematography, perhaps, but a bit deficient (if not lacking) in message.

Well, I watched the first 10 minutes and I thought it was very creative & memorable visually. But then I switched it off because it seemed to meander, and I'd rather not have another disappointment. So my question is: does the story/theme start to solidify later in the film? Or is what I've seen all I can expect?

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] rooprect 18 years ago

Thanks, that answers it.

I agree that a story/message is not essential to good art, but it's just what I prefer to see. I never was a fan of Virginia Lee Woolf's stream-of-consciousness technique, even though I can see how it has an appeal.

I like long blues guitar solos. I like disjointed Salvador Dali paintings. I like the random sounds of nature. But I just don't like literature/movies that lack structure. JMHO.

[–] Fletista 18 years ago

I have always found a message in the Fellini movies, or maybe I would say ideas. It's because this I find them so fascinating.

E la nave va is a movie that flows without necesity of a complicated plot, and uses the opera in a very touching way. I think it's delightful.

[–] rooprect 18 years ago

Fletista, maybe you could help me out then. What is it about E la nave va that I should look for?

Don't get me wrong; I'm not looking for a literal plot to hold it together (although I do think that would be a nice touch). But I am looking for something slightly more than Impressionism. I would like to know what the artist is saying rather than rely on my own vague interpretations.

In music, we had the Classical era where composers paid strict attention to theme and structure ("plot"). Then we had the Romantic era where composers instead focused on improvisation, spontaneity and emotion without structure. You can probably guess that I prefer the Classical era. I'm just wondering if there are any "Classical" elements to Fellini.

I hope this explains my position better. It seems like people may have misunderstood me.

[–] Fletista 18 years ago

You have answered very quickly! I’m sorry I’m a bit slow with the English, and I have a bit of difficulty trying to translate what I want to say, because my vocabulary in English is a bit reduced.

It’s a bit adventurous to say what pretended to say Fellini but here is my hypothesis.

From here to the end there are SPOILERS in yellow

About the message: The ship contains a lot of symbols of the old XIX century, with the Austro-Hungarian Grand Duke [it's correct in English?] in the lead. The same title And the ship goes seems the title of something that goes adrift without course until its final sinking-downfall in the bottom of the sea. I think the slow scattering of the ashes of Tetua is other representation of this lost of the old world. Included the stink of the rhinoceros seems to allude something corrupt there. There is only one immaculate symbol in my opinion, the young girl of white dress, the only one who escapes from the ship before the sinking [ok yes, with a terrorist...]. The same cause of this sinking is the WWI and the beginning of a new century with new ideas and a new political order in the world.

I found this movie very symbolic. The same setting is showed as something clearly fake. It has to have a meaning too.

About the plot: The movies I have watched of Fellini are stories that happen in a short period of time, practically few days or hours and I can’t find a clear structure –but normally I never try to find it-. For me they are stories that go by without a clear structure as the same life, they flow. Ginger and Fred, for example, is only a piece of the life of two persons but have messages too, stronger than in E La nave va, that’s true. Maybe E la nave va is a more difficult movie to be interpreted.

So let’s talk about the E la nave va structure. I can find it has a simple structure; before and after the Serbians appearance. When the Serbians are not in the ship, in the beginning, all seems in perfect harmony inside that ship that contains a small and anachronistic world were all works, but the apparition of the Serbians is the interference of the reality on this world, and the reality is something very opposite of the society that lives in the ship, so appears the conflict and the beginning of the destruction of the old world, a kind of symbolism of the WWI.

Classical structure in E la nave va… Well, the beginning of the XX century scorned the classical structure. Few people knew then who was Mozart or Cimarosa and the poor Rossini was very hated. If I remember well, all the operas that appear in the movie are romantic. The same Tetua is here a lyrical soprano, maybe a spinto, so a romantic singer. Maybe this movie have to avoid the classical references.

About Classical elements on Fellini, he has tendency to mix fantasy and reality. Well, better said, all his movies have magical things, as circus spectacles that he loved very much, and his movies have a bit [and a lot] of chaos and very Italian concepts that are more irrational than rational, more viscerals.

But I’m not an expert in Fellini, I haven’t watched all of his movies and I don’t know if I’m completely wrong. I only say that on my opinion, the classical structure has no place in Fellini’s world. Too strict. If you want to know if there are classical elements –more detail about it- I can’t help.

Ehem, well, those are my ideas… On my language I would have explained it better!

[–] rooprect 18 years ago

The ship contains a lot of symbols of the old XIX century...
The same title And the ship goes seems the title of something that goes adrift without course...
the apparition of the Serbians is the interference of the reality on this world, and the reality is something very opposite of the society that lives in the ship, so appears the conflict...

THANKS FLETISTA! This is exactly what I was hoping for. Yes, symbolism is very important to me. If a film has a lot of symbolism then it has a deep meaning, even if there is no story. You've convinced me to try watching it again (this time more attentively).

Perhaps I have confused Fellini with other directors who have a similar style but without any meaning. Those directors are very annoying to me because I spend a lot of time trying to figure out the hidden messages (as you have done), but often there is no message at all. It's like trying to solve a puzzle that has no solution. Very frustrating!

Well, I'm glad to hear that Fellini has a deeper meaning. Thanks for the hints. Also thanks for putting the spoilers in yellow. I'll come back and read them after I've watched the movie.

P.S. I never would've noticed that you're not a native English speaker. You write much better than most Americans I know ;)

[–] Fletista 18 years ago

You are welcome! I'm happy my information helped you.

As you I'm very interested in symbolism too. I have the opinion people need to have a special kind of sensibility to appreciate those double senses. I suppose it’s the reason I said this movie was delightful.

I never would've noticed that you're not a native English speaker. You write much better than most Americans I know ;)

That made me smile proudly

[–] robertodr-1 18 years ago

Yes, you are absolutely wrong. I´m very sorry about you because "E la nave va" is a masterpiece. But may be you are right: if you are not able to understand the language that Fellini uses to build his poetic and cinematograpohic universe, don´t have another disappointment, the film is going to be too much for you. Best regards.

[–] ckpc 18 years ago

It won't be. You say you've seen Fellini films before--I'm guessing those probably include 8 1/2 and La Dolce Vita. If they don't, watch those first! It's better to see the best first, so you can move on to the lesser works with an understanding of where the director is going, and maybe where he got lost.

If you get impatient during Fellini films, this movie is probably not the ticket for you, however. It's long, and when my whole family sat down to watch, only my father and I were left at the end. It's got some great images, some wonderful scenes, and of the course, the unforgettable ending. But, I think, for this film, though it is wonderful, it tends seem to unravel in some bits, and so you could easily fast forward through slower scenes. (Something I would not advise for 8 1/2 or even La Dolce Vita, which are more cohesive, if that word even applies to Fellini films!).

If I could leave you with one thing--don't be so eager to search for message in a film. Fellini's films are more of an exploration of message--it's sort of like not answering a question, but coming up with the question to ask, if that makes any sense. As such, as you say, there is very little structure to Fellini films, but it is better to let yourself go, rather than trying to pin him down--because ultimately you won't be able to.

Kate

[–] Camoo 18 years ago

i also hope you take a look at some of tarkovskys films again... such as stalker and the sacrifice..
his films are hard to digest at times but the ultimate 'ecstatic' meaning behind his symbols more than make up for as lack of structure.. the thing about these kinds of films i think is that we constantly in our own lives try to make a coherent sense from them, while the ultimate meaning of them is far more abstract and untenable than most of us notice. i understand there is a masturbatory cinema where certain films have a pretentious, aimless quality, but some directors such as the ones you mention in your first post have [to me] so clearly grasped and expressed the 'deeper stratas' of truth in life through their work, as incomprehensible as it might seem on the surface... i appreciate this open minded thread, by the way!!! glad to hear, rooprect that you were willing to try and the ship sails on again it is a very fulfilling experience!

[–] tieman64 17 years ago

If you like Amarcord, you will definately like this. He got really interesting in the 80s, but this and Ginger and Fred are his most acessible.

Avoid Satyricon, Roma and City of Women, though. I have a feeling you will find them garish and pretentious.

"Rape is no laughing matter. Unless you're raping a clown."

[–] sr_wolfrider 17 years ago

[Avoid Satyricon, Roma and City of Women, though.]

Why don't like Satyricon, tieman?

[I'm having severe trouble liking Fellini movies, having attempted to watch 3. I understand that Fellini, much like Tarkovsky, does not put a whole lot of thematic/plot substance into his films but rather relies on setting a poetic mood.]

What, Roopect? He does put substance into his films! In fact, Fellini is entirely substance, and is by far one of the most personal film-makers of his era, never compromising himself. Never compromising his stories for the sake of bowing to the audience. Your problem, I assume, is that you equate plot substance with conventional plot driven story arcs. Yes Nave meanders, but so does life.

Last film seen: Robert Bresson's Pickpocket - Brilliant!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0053168/

[–] Oliver_Alla 17 years ago

I think this is one of his best pictures. I like it very much, specially for an opera fan, this is a gem. When they throw the ashes with the wind, while sounds "O Patria Mia" from Aida by Verdi, God, how beautiful!!! That was very moving.

Fellini: what a maestro!

[–] Kinematico 16 years ago

This is in my opinion the best "late" film by Fellini. of course it's not in the same league than "Le notti di Cabiria", "8 1/2", "La dolce vita", "La strada", "Amarcord" etc. but definitively is the best of his latest films.

Much better than "Intervista", "Ginger e Fred", "Prova d'Orchestra", etc.

I've enjoyed "E la nave va" a lot.

8/10

[–] megArnold 16 years ago

This film's plot, like many of Fellini's plots, has more of a chain-of-events structure, like a journey, or an exploration. As someone before mentioned, like in real life, things happen seemingly on their own, not because someone planned them, unlike the classical three-act arc structure. (You can find the three-act structure in this one as well, if you look closely...)

[–] ryankent1984 15 years ago

We watched this today in our Film Theory class to coincide with a lecture on Deluze's 'time-image' theory. I have to say I didn't particularly enjoy it. Then again, I haven't really liked a Fellini film so far.

Don't get me wrong, I can see why people do like his films and I'd be the first to admit some aspects of his films are brilliant - the last 30 minutes of E la nave va was very good. But I would much prefer an Antonioni or Pasolini than a Fellini any day.

[–] mual1977 15 years ago

I'd choose Fellini over Pasolini or Antonioni in a heartbeat. There's just no comparison. Fellini was (and always will be) THE maestro. His best film is Amarcord, imo.

[–] Xcalat3 15 years ago

When there's no more room in hell, The dead will walk the earth...

[–] cpuller-642-329716 13 years ago

I fell asleep after one hour but thats not unusual when I watch a fellini movie late.
When it gets loud I wake up because there is some circus scene :D
I like his films but sometimes I need two sessions for a film.

What movies did you watch? Some can definately scare you off from the director.
Did you see 8 1/2, giulietta degli spiriti, armacord, il vitelloni, city of women
those are my favorites more or less
Some really meander some have a message but youre not slapped in the face with it.