MovieChat Forums > The Burning Bed (1984) Discussion > Telling battered women 'if you don't lik...

Telling battered women 'if you don't like it, JUST leave'


Yeah anybody who says that clearly never knew a battered woman in their whole life, and sure as hell doesn't care about women who DO leave and are stalked by their exes, and in cases like Francine's, the ex moves IN to her new home and even with a restraining order in effect, NOTHING is done with the bastards. 'JUST leave', telling them to JUST kill their husbands would have more actual results instead of amounting to nothing but JUST talk.

reply

it's all talk within your reality.
No, you're right,they should stay and expect the world to save them. Do us a favor..stay away from gasoline,sherp objects and men ,in that order.
You have no idea who has known battered women or not.

Really, Francine "left", where to her mom's house? How far away was that, a mile? Why not drive to a motel where he wouldn't possibly know where she is? I thought you said she was earning all the money. And what about all the sheltered women who are given advice, but return anyway? Now, If La Francine was that incapable of functioning, why didnt' she check herself into a mental-hospital for safety, until people there could help her think clearly? What, too good for her? There are all walks of life in a mental hospital,and does not mean one is "crazy"
I do notice how you select which questions/issues to address, and which you don't. But of course,that serves your little mission.

reply

Again you are proving you know NOTHING.

She made the money, Mickey TOOK it all, how hard is that to figure out? that's you getting your pay for the week and your ex TAKES it and leaves the house with his drinking buddies and doesn't come home until the next morning when it's all gone. What're YOU going to do? You going to go after a dozen drunks and say 'please give me the money back'?

Also, if a woman has to just LEAVE, LEAVE does not mean go into hiding, HIDING means go into hiding where nobody can find her LEAVE means just LEAVE. Learn the difference in words before declaring what somebody should do, 'oh but that doesn't mean that, that means to do this instead'. You say JUST leave, then that means she doesn't have to drop off the face of the earth, but NOW you're saying if you don't want your ex to stalk you, JUST hide, JUST do everything to prove he still has all the control and can do whatever he wants.

And yes, in the 70s going to a crazy hospital DID mean you're crazy, just like back then a battered wife was only being beaten because she wasn't working hard enough to please her husband, just like back then men could rape their wives and there were no laws against it, go back 40 years and you'll find it was a different world entirely. No shelters, no safe houses, very few options for women in those positions because until the world saw this woman who set her husband on fire, nobody really cared what was going on behind closed doors, that was THAT person's problem only.

And here is another piece of food for thought. You say 'JUST leave', well unless YOU go in with her and escort her out holding a shotgun on the husband saying 'I'll blow your brains out if you take one step towards her', WHAT is going to stop the husband from doing exactly what Mickey did and moving into her new home that she buys AFTER her divorce and AFTER getting a restraining order on him? He knew the cops would never do anything with him, what're you going to do, call the cops and tell them 'do your job for once?' Think they'll listen to you? Have you EVER called the cops because your life was in danger and had them call you back in 10 minutes saying 'do you STILL need us?' Or have you ever called the cops because somebody was threatening to kill you and they say 'well it's YOUR fault for not being nice to them, next time don't make them angry'? When you do, then you can talk about options and easy.

Oh and a final thought, next time you want to talk about JUST, JUST do this, JUST do that, you think telling a person who is handcuffed and tied up and thrown into the river 'if you don't want to drown, JUST swim' would do any good? I guess if they drown they JUST didn't try hard enough, eh? Or maybe they were just 'comfortable' with the arrangement, hm?

reply

'And yes, in the 70s going to a crazy hospital DID mean you're crazy'
----------------
How do you now, were ever admitted or worked in one? And "back in the 70's" is really not that long ago.
Mental hospitals--then and now-- is not just for psychotics,but anybody suffering from a nervous breakdown and dysfunctional. Thier purpose is to make you functional again while isolating you from the stimuli that caused the breakdown,so you won't do things like setting people on fire. You are ignorant of the facts.

'just like back then a battered wife was only being beaten because she wasn't working hard enough to please her husband, '
----------------
Really, who made that claim,aside from Francine's book? Gee..my mother from the 70's would not agree. Care to ask her?


'back 40 years and you'll find it was a different world entirely'
------------------
I WAS THERE 40 yrs ago,and an adult. Were you? It was NOT a different world entirely.
You do a helleva lot of assuming to please whatever you wish to believe. You don't give the benefit of the doubt to anything that does not fit into some hole of your own making.


'You say 'JUST leave', well unless YOU go in with her and escort her out holding a shotgun on the husband saying 'I'll blow your brains out if you take one step towards her', WHAT is going to stop the husband from doing exactly..'
----------------------
Women can do the same thing? Does that mean an abused husband stays with his wife? A woman is just as capable of using with a gun to blow brains out. Now what? Do also you have an excuse for why a woman would not pick up a baseball bat and incapacitate the abuser? So, she can light him on fire, but cannot smash his legs while asleep...I see.

I am really tired of your excuses and other preconceived notions which you have instilled in your mind.

reply

"Simpleminded" is such an appropriate name, although "simplistic" would fit even better.

I lived through those days also, chum. And it was a much different time, worse than today, when it's still not easy for a domestic-violence victim to escape.

And for the record:

1. Francine didn't work. She received welfare benefits. She was attending secretarial school so that she could learn to support herself and the children--until Mickey forced her to burn her books and say she wouldn't go back to school.

2. True, he was just as dead, but the cause of Mickey's death was not burns. It was smoke inhalation.

reply

I HAVE known battered women for years. Yes I know some things were different in Francine's day (and even in the womens' lives I knew).
But one now-divorced woman will say: Its still up to the woman. Its always the man's fault for the abuse. But you have a responsibility for your own safety.
And ALWAYS for your children's safety.

Francine, like many women in a possessive/abusive relationship, had at LEAST TWO chances to leave Mickey for good & he would have left her alone.
But she kept going back!

After a while, the husbands/boyfriends think they truly own them & will not let them go easily.

The idea is to try your best to leave after the FIRST sign of abuse.


I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus.
Didn't he discover America?
Penfold, shush.

reply

Yeah, sure. Francine could just up and leave (from a house that she owned at that) after Mickey threatened to kill her if she tried. Domestic-violence counselors say that a woman is most at risk when she does try to leave, because abusers snap when they realize they no longer have control over their punching bags.

There were no hotlines and no shelters to help her. She could count on no help from her family or Mickey's, since for them domestic violence was the norm. She had neither the money nor the wiles to plot her own escape, much less an escape with children in tow.

It's been many years since I saw this movie, so I can't remember if it's as detailed as the book about the many ways she tried to force Mickey out of her home. No one helped her, not even the DA's office.

In any case, why was the onus on her to leave? I'm reminded of a time when Golda Meir was prime minister of Israel and a serial rapist was terrorizing Tel Aviv. When members of her cabinet recommended that she impose a curfew on Israeli women for their own safety, Golda said that since a man was committing the rapes, it would make more sense to impose a curfew on men.

reply

Francine had chances to leave. Both the film & Francine's own novel indicate this.

The very first choice was marrying Mickey to BEGIN WITH! He had put his hands on her in violence before they were even engaged! She herself 'put it out of her mind'.
She knew better even then.

When she leaves him the first time, she did NOT own a house.
Yes her mom had little to say, but Francine herself in the book says that the mom told her to 'make up her own mind'.

Francine suspected she was pregnant, and admitted that she could have likely supported herself through welfare IF she took the time to think it through.
But she did not. She made CHOICES.


I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus.
Didn't he discover America?
Penfold, shush.

reply

Yeah, she made choices in a time when women were NOT career women, they did NOT go to college, their ONLY worth in the world, that they were taught from day 1, was to be married, and be a housewife, and if you didn't do that, you were worthless, it didn't matter how bad the husband was, you were supposed to be married to have ANY value.

My mother was born in 1950, in the late 60s when she graduated she told her parents that she wanted to go to college, and this SHAMED her parents, it was seen as a SHAME where they were concerned, for their only daughter to try making something of herself. Her own father told her the ONLY thing she was going to do was get married and be a wife and that was the end of it, anything else was an embarrassment to them. And she tried to do both, she tried balancing going to college in the morning with also having a job AND being married to a guy who was WORSE than Mickey in that he came back from Vietnam with only 1 arm, and it took FOUR cops to wrestle him into the back of a squad car. She put up with it for 2 years, and finally left, but you have to be READY to die when you make that call, because that's the moment of truth, either all their threats against you and your children and your family are a bluff, or the ONLY way you're going out the door is in a bag. Naturally not a lot of women back then were raised to have that kind of courage, a lot of them still don't even today.

reply

You don't need to be a career women or go to college to change your scenario. That's an excuse. You can't use YOUR family experience to validate Francine. My mother waited tables with 2 children. What did all the other Francines out there do then, given the same situation? Were they all beaten to death?

Francine was plain stupid. It's fine to be stupid, but don't blame others for not bending to your desires. A woman with brains does not sit around waiting for her abusive husband to change. And if Francine was too scarrrrred, she could had gotten in that car and just drove, minus the fire. And if she couldn't do that, then she's mentally-ill for being so incapable.

what if the MAN was not educated, non-skilled, and feared for his life? DO the rules change then? He'd be tossed in the slammer so fast.

reply

You don't need to be a career women or go to college to change your scenario. That's an excuse. You can't use YOUR family experience to validate Francine. My mother waited tables with 2 children. What did all the other Francines out there do then, given the same situation? Were they all beaten to death?

Francine was plain stupid. It's fine to be stupid, but don't blame others for not bending to your desires. A woman with brains does not sit around waiting for her abusive husband to change. And if Francine was too scarrrrred, she could had gotten in that car and just drove, minus the fire. And if she couldn't do that, then she's mentally-ill for being so incapable.

Agreed. Francine was stupid. She knew BEFORE marriage that Mickey was physically abusive, for one thing.
Second, she kept on having kids with that moron. They DID have birth control for women then, such as diaphragms or IUDs!
Third, she left him more than once & Mickey seemed to leave her alone. Yet she goes back!
Yes I understand she had little money but I am sorry, if I was in a situation as bad as Francine claims it was, I would have indeed gotten my kids in the car & DROVE! Anything would have been better than living with that jackass.



I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus.
Didn't he discover America?
Penfold, shush.

reply

Why must it be a fire to torture him? "temp insanity"? Well, she could had broken his legs instead, shot him, stabbed him, or done something else to incapacitate him for a while. I guess she was too fragile to do that also

reply

Well granted this was a very long time ago, and battered wives taking revenge were not common. They likely did not have many cases of women (or men) standing up to their spouses by fire or any kind of violent retaliation.

The book seems to indicate he died of smoke inhalation, not the fire burning him.
I don't feel bad for Mickey at all, he was a serious schmuck.
But unfortunately, I don't feel sorry for Francine really either.

Not only did she prove herself stupid here, but if you read the Update about her....if that is true , you won't feel sorry for her at ALL.



I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus.
Didn't he discover America?
Penfold, shush.

reply

What did all the other Francines out there do then, given the same situation? Were they all beaten to death?



A lot of them were, and a lot of them still are. Would you care to tell us how many safe houses and battered women's shelters existed to HELP women in Francine's position in the 50s and 60s? Oh yeah, NONE. How about domestic violence hotlines? Zip. How about even a law that says men aren't allowed to rape their wives? THAT didn't even exist until the 1980s. So you think society gave a damn about battered women back then like they do today? That women back then had any real options? How about a voice of reason teaching that NOBODY deserves to be beaten, that your spouse does NOT have that right to treat you like a punching bag? Yeah, again, NOTHING, back then it was 'he hits you because YOU are not being a good enough wife, if you WERE good, he wouldn't HAVE to hit you'. Please do feel free to provide examples that battered women 50-60 years ago had the same options they do today to get help and get out if you disagree.

reply

WHY ABOUT THE PERSON'S OPTIONS? If I as a man, was being abused by a roommate, what options would I have? I guess I would have to drag my sore butt out the door and FIND my options. I have lived in rooms the size of a bathroom when I had limited options, and worked as a busboy. When a woman divorces her husband with no alimony or child support, what "options" does she have? One finds their options, even if it means checking yourself into a mental ward as a place to live and say you are suicidal. Now, you go and think about that for awhile instead of running the mouth off.

reply

Francine was married in the late-60s-1970s.

But even so, a shelter is only a temporary help anyway. You cannot stay there indefinitely.
Francine could get a Protection Order today, but we all know how effective those tend to be.
So Francine might have been 'safer' for a short time, but her ultimate options were still the same then as now.



I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus.
Didn't he discover America?
Penfold, shush.

reply

but her ultimate options were still the same then as now.

Those options vary from person to person, and location. There are women who have escaped a domestic-violence situation, just like those who did not. Isn't that why the "insanity" defense was used, because the jury would not buy her defense without it? (juries don't look too kindly on murder-defendants who say they had no options) Who said a person women is entitled to "ultimate" opinions, instead of temp options that progress as you go along? it was never that way in my life.

How come, as a man, if I didn't not leave an abusive situation with a roommate who threatened to kill me if I left, and I had no options, I would be found guilty? In my mind, I may have felt I had no other options either, but whether that makes it a reality is unknown. For example, having to live on the street is an option for some people, even though it's unpleasant. Being homeless is not necessarily a permanent fate either.

It makes me wonder if ("couldn't hurt a fly") Fawcett was miscast, since I don't know how close she came to representing the real Francine. Even though the occurrences would have been the same, our perception of her would be different. Cheryl Ladd, the original choice (according to trivia), would have added more verve to the role, unless she was directed to play it the same way as Fawcett.

reply

Yeah anybody who says that clearly never knew a battered woman in their whole life, and sure as hell doesn't care about women who DO leave and are stalked by their exes, and in cases like Francine's, the ex moves IN to her new home and even with a restraining order in effect, NOTHING is done with the bastards. 'JUST leave', telling them to JUST kill their husbands would have more actual results instead of amounting to nothing but JUST talk.



so true!
There is no one looking out for us. We are all alone. Graham Hess

reply