MovieChat Forums > The Bounty (1984) Discussion > On which side would you be?

On which side would you be?


I`m quite curious...who would you choose to be with? Follow Fletcher Christian in his mutiny or would you rather stay loyal to you supperior commander, Bligh and abandom the Bounty with him?

"If you gotta go, go with a smile."

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If you read the original story, there was not enough room in the launch for ALL the people who wanted to go with Bligh to do so. Christian dropped them off in Tahiti...and when a British frigate arrived in search of Bounty mutineers, the ones that would have preferred to stay with Bligh were promptly arrested and charged with mutiny and piracy. Apparently three were convicted and executed on the false testimony of Bligh, two were pardoned.

Blight was an outstanding seaman; but if the story is true, not an honorable person. "If this be treason, let's make the most of it."

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Without a doubt Bligh, He was a orderly respectable man. Fletcher just wanted his woman. It really could of gone either way for if I was there it would of depended on the sitituation. Alot of it had to do with emotions for the men who followed the mutiny. If I had a woman I deeply loved on Titati I would of probably sided with Flecher Chistian. But otherwise no, I would prefer to team up with Bligh and return home to a much more developed and homely society and culture back in england. (Im actually from england)

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"If you read the original story, there was not enough room in the launch for ALL the people who wanted to go with Bligh to do so. Christian dropped them off in Tahiti..."

This is true. In fact, at least one person who was in the launch was ordered back onto the ship.

"and when a British frigate arrived in search of Bounty mutineers, the ones that would have preferred to stay with Bligh were promptly arrested and charged with mutiny and piracy. Apparently three were convicted and executed on the false testimony of Bligh, two were pardoned."

This is not accurate. Twenty-five men remained on the Bounty. After a failed attempt to settle on a nearby island, sixteen of them were dropped off at Tahiti, while the other nine eventually went to Pitcairn's Island. Some of the men who remained on Tahiti took an active role in the mutiny, based on the testimony of several others, not just Bligh. One of the mutineers murdered another, and was in turn killed by Tahitians. The fourteen remaining sailors were picked up by the Pandora, which had been sent in search of the Bounty. Although several of these men were specifically noted in Bligh's report as having taken part in the mutiny, all were treated as mutineers and locked up on the ship. The Pandora struck a reef and sank, taking four of the prisoners (as well as 30 crewmen) with her. The remaining ten were eventually taken back to England for court-martial. Four were acquitted (Bligh had "cleared" three of these; the fourth was an almost blind fiddler who sat helplessly as the mutiny took place). Two were convicted but pardoned (for the most part, witnesses said they took no part in the mutiny, and the testimony of those who said they did was questionable). One was convicted but had his conviction overturned on a technicality (he was very, very lucky). Three were convicted and hung, based on the testimony of nearly all of the witnesses, not just Bligh. Bligh, in fact, was not a witness at the trial, as he was on a second, successful, mission to transport breadfruit from Tahiti to the West Indies.

Of the nine sailors who went to Pitcairn's Island, seven, including Christain, died violently within a few years (along with the six Polynesian men who had joined them).

Of the 19 men on the launch, one was killed by natives of an island where they had stopped for food and water; and five died of ilness shortly after they reached the safety of the Dutch colony in present day Indonesia. One was lost at sea before he made it back to England.


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Considering the tremendous risk involved on going on an open boat in the middle of nowhere (practically suicide) I probably would have gone with Christian and faced the consequences later.

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I would likely have gone with Bligh.

Think about it, going with Christian the best you could hope for is a life spent hiding out, always dreading the approach of a British ship. At the worst, you know you'd be hung. Plus, you knew that you could never, ever see your home or family again.

I concur with an earlier poster.

Of the men left behind in Tahiti, the majority had not taken part in the mutiny. When the Pandora arrived, Captain Edwards simply decided to arrest them all and let the matter of guilt be decided back in England.

Of those that survived the sinking of the Pandora, those that had taken no part in the mutiny were easily cleared once the court-martials got underway back in London. The three men who were hung had definitely taken part in the mutiny and had -for whatever reason- opted to remain behind in Tahiti. (Christian was smart enough to know they couldn't stay in Tahiti. He reasoned that, even if Bligh and all his loyalists had perished, when the Bounty failed to arrive in either the West Indies or England the Royal Navy would send out a vessel to look for her or at least try to learn what happened. When that happened, Tahiti would be the first place they'd come looking)

One thing I've always wondered. Why didn't Christian think of trying to sail the Bounty for the west coast of North America? Yes, it would be long haul across the Pacific but they could have made it (provided they were able to occasionally replenish fresh water). True, it wouldn't have been the polynesian dreamlife they were hoping for. But, it would have had its own advantages. First, it wouldn't have been an island that could easily be missed. It was a continental coastline. If they sailed east long enough they would have reached it. Second, they could have put in at any point along a vast coastline. Even if a Royal Navy vessel came along, the chances of it finding them would have been very long. And third, they could have just migrated into the interior where they had vast space to settle where they would have liked and not worried about the conflicts that eventually wrecked the early Pitcairn settlement. They wouldn't have had to try and get along on a relatively small island.

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That is an interesting thought about North America. Perhaps Christian ruled it out because much of it was under Spanish control at the time.

As far as the original question, there was a neat bit of irony involving those who avoided the open boat voyage with Bligh and stayed on Tahiti: after the Pandora sank, the survivors faced an open boat voyage of their own. It was much shorter, and they had more provisions, but they still arrived hungry, thirsty and ragged at the same Dutch settlements that Bligh had arrived at a couple of years before.

Midshipmen Thomas Hayward had the unfortunate distinction of taking part in both of the voyages. He has never been treated kindly in the Bounty literature, but one cannot help but feel sympathetic at the thought of the nigthmarish deja vu he must have felt as the Pandora sunk.

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Christian may not have planned to go to America, but it seems that some of the mutineers who stayed behind on Tahiti did. They built a 33-foot boat, and after an aborted attempt to reach the Dutch East Indies, it was reported that they tried to sail to the NW coast of America instead. Needless to say, they didn't make it and returned to Tahiti.

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Hot Tahitian girls or smelly old men on a little boat? Let me think....

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Why didn't Christian think of trying to sail the Bounty for the west coast of North America?

Christian noted that Pitcarin's Island had been MIS-plotted on standard Admiralty charts. Thus, the only way a British ship would come across it would be totally by accident. That might have kept them safe for many years (and it did for almost 25 years, as it happened).

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What I liked about this movie is that it portrayed Bligh and Christian as what they were. Bligh wasn't a monster - he was a gruff disciplinarian, but hardly the sadist that we see in other film versions. And far from being a humanitarian hero, Christian was basically a selfish, spoiled, and self-absorbed man with no sense of duty or responsibility to anything but his own whims. Basically, he and his thugs started a mutiny because they wanted to fool around on Tahiti rather than getting back to work on a ship.

I was 100% behind Bligh in this conflict - both according to the historical record and in this film.

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In one account I read about Bligh, it said that his one real personality fault was that he had a very short fuse. On the slightest thing, he would blow up and use language so rough, that he was once admonished by a Board of Inquiry. However, once he had blown up and ranted, he would always cool down and let the matter drop. It was almost like that was his emotional release. He would yell and scream, but then just forget about it and move on. I suspect most people he dealt with realized this and learned to live with it. They endured the verbal storm, knowing that it would soon pass and Bligh would then forgive and forget the matter.

The trouble was that Fletcher Christian was a very broody man who would stew over the harangues he received from Bligh. In all likelihood Bligh never realized it was having this affect on Christian. Christian was emotionally fed-up over Bligh's ranting (Although it was really Christian's own fault. As second-in-command, the onus was on him to get the crew to perform their duties adequately. He was failing at that because he was far too caught up in his own mental quagmire), and was desiring to return to an idyllic life in Tahiti.

What pushed the situation past the boiling point was Christian's popularity amongst the crew. He was -as one account described- the only officer on the ship who had the influence to either instigate or stop a mutiny. To the detriment of all concerned, he chose the former.

It seemed to me that Christian seemed to regret the mutiny after it had happened. He had probably thought it through and realized the implications. He knew he could never return to England again and would be a marked man for the rest of his life. I got the impression Christian was an impulsive man who often acted on his passions without fully thinking it through. Plus, I suspect he had some personality issues to aggravate the situation. Men who sailed with him described Christian as an emotionally volatile man prone to mood swings. He could, apparently, go from extreme happiness to crushing depression and back again. Perhaps nowadays he'd be diagnosed as a manic depressive. Of course, that doesn't excuse causing mutiny. However, it could explain some of his motivations.

I rather suspect that Christian wasn't a man ideally suited for such a long voyage on such a -relatively- small vessel. For that matter, neither was Bligh. Bligh was an expert seaman and navigator, but he really lacked the people skills for such a long expedition. He always did much better in more extreme situations where his skills as a mariner were better used and he'd be too occupied to get worked up over small details. Putting Bligh and Christian together, with their respective personalities (and their inherent personality flaws) in such a small space for such a long time was a recipe for trouble. Most likely, if Bligh had chosen someone else for Master's Mate, or if Christian had sailed under a different captain, the voyage would have been completed without incident and the name Bounty would now be forgotten in everything except the archives of the Royal Navy.

I completely agree that Christian and his thugs bore the whole onus for the mutiny. I feel the only real mistake Bligh made (aside from his aforementioned short fuse) was to allow discipline to fall apart during the five months the ship was at Tahiti. In hindsight, this was clearly where the seeds of the mutiny were planted and Bligh really should have known better. However, that doesn't excuse Christian.

In the film, I felt there really wasn't a clear villain or hero. Both Bligh and Christian were portrayed as complex people. Each had their attributes and their faults.

As for the idea that the Spaniards controlled the western coast of North America. That is true. However, considering the size of the coast, they could still have made landfall on some uninhabited spot and then essentially disappeared into the vast interior. They could have landed somewhere further north, like the coast of Oregon, Washington or British Columbia where a myriad of coves would have allowed both seclusion and more than adequate hiding places inland.

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[deleted]

"I feel the only real mistake Bligh made (aside from his aforementioned short fuse) was to allow discipline to fall apart during the five months the ship was at Tahiti. In hindsight, this was clearly where the seeds of the mutiny were planted and Bligh really should have known better."

this sounds good in theory and conceptually i agree... but thinking about it more practically.. the burden of command can be an isolated position especially what with Christian being the person he was.... flaky and seemingly unstable etc etc...

can you perceive of 1 guy actually being able to effectively enforce discipline over a rabble spread over an entire island......... for 5 months? ... ok day 1 "behave yourselves"... fine... day 2 "dont you dare piss around"... day 3 - "why are you getting tattoos?"... surely by now the crew would be thinking blighs just a kill joy...... 1 month - bligh starts compromising by not criticising every little undisciplined act seeing as everyone except him is loving it.. 2 months.. what the hell can he say or do now? 5 months - he'd be grateful they actually get in the boat with any discipline or commitment to the navy at all...


what im trying to say is its a different situation than command within the confined environment of a ship and logistically much more difficult... i would surmise that it was bound to fall apart regardless of anything bligh could have been or done...


i am surprised in that respect that half the ship chose to go with Bligh... yes of course i side with Bligh in regards of who was right and wrong.. but practically it would have been difficult to get in that boat with him when there and then it would have appeared to be a death sentence... lack of water provisions / charts etc.. the fact they they sided with him despite the odds against them is testimony to Blighs respectability...


the way i see it is that fundamentally the crew were riff raff ... bligh was isolated in command and Christian was the weakest link in maintaining the ships congruence..


i do wonder about blighs credentials as a leader given that he attempted to go round the horn on the way out in full knowledge that the bounty was not a ship designed for it ... i'm no sea farer but with reference marlon brandos comment in the '62 version something like "if we succeed in negotiating the horn in the dead of winter... bligh: "why shouldn't we suceed - admiral anderson did" ... brando: "yes but of course he didn't choose to attempt it in a 91ft chamber pot... in any event his was the only ship to do it and i believe he lost 50% of his crew")...

if this is historically accurate.. bligh's choice to try the horn seems selfish in terms of trying to distinguish himself for his own career record and worse than that extremely foolish and irresponsible... all it did was lose him a lot of respect from the crew ... who likes taking orders from a guy who makes idiotic decisions?


also some later situation in his career...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rum_Rebellion


.. it seems difficult to regard the mutiny and this rum rebellion as co-incidence and i'm beginning to wonder if bligh was incompetent in positions of authority and responsibility???..... i find it surprising that the admiralty would trust a ship to someone again who'd already been mutineed against???? now a days you'd expect something like that to be the end of career... its kind of sad in way for his legacy too that the breadfruit voyages were ultimately pointless..


as for the mutineers.. the heading for america idea is interesting and probably would have been the best solution but again i think practically.. those guys were up for a life of leisure with quick fixes and immediate gratification.. i dont imagine Christian would have carried enough authority to make for anything but the easiest solution when it arose (pitcairn)..

in any event its an interesting story

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Bligh has actually been instructed -in his sailing orders- to go via Cape Horn. However, his orders were delayed in being sent out, meaning the ship got there late in the season and thus in the worst weather.

It was only a last minute addition to the orders that gave him the leeway to sail via Cape Good Hope if Cape Horn proved truly impossible.

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Haven't been to the fiji islands so I can't tell.. but probably with mel gibson because anthony hopkins is a real ashole

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In real life it's the other way around...

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Well, the mutineers were the real losers in the situation.

Eight years after the mutiny, only two men who took part in it were still alive -John Adams who was the sole survivor on Pitcairn and William Muspratt who escaped the yardarm on a technicality and was later pardoned.

The others were all dead, either from violence amongst themselves (on Tahiti and then the mass killings on Pitcairn), went down with HMS Pandora, or were hung from the yardarm at Spithead.

Even without that, the mutineers were essentially forced to hide out away from the world, in isolation, knowing they could never return to their homes.

At the start of the mutiny, anyone taking part in the mutiny had to know that their fate was either to be outlawed the rest of their lives, on some deserted island, or the yardarm.

I'd rather have gone with Bligh, or at the very least been among the loyal crewmembers who had to stay behind due to no room in the launch. (With the exception of George Stewart who went down with Pandora, they all made it back to England eventually and were acquitted -or pardoned- at subsequent trials).

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[deleted]

I can fully understand the men siding with Christian for one main reason nobody seems to be bringing up: these men were NOT officers or enlisted crew in the Royal Navy... they were forcibly pressed into service, basically Shanghied against their will, some from prisons, some from pubs, some from the streets if they were passed-out drunk. For us to ascribe our morals to them is unfair. These days, we go into the military as voluneteers. We choose to be there. As a result, there is a code of honor we are bound to follow as we have, essentially, chosen that life of our own free will. Most of the men on the Bounty did NOT want to be there. They were as much slaves as those they were bringing back breadfruit to feed.

And, sooner or later, any slave who has any shred of manhood still in him will revolt or escape, if possible. And with the lure of the beautiful Tahitian people (women AND men) and their Idyllic lifeway so different from the unnatural constraints an Englishman was forced to endure, it's no wonder they chose Tahiti.

Such is the lure of freedom.

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None of the crew in the Bounty were pressed into service. Bligh made sure all the crew were willing sailors. Finding a willing crew wasn't that hard. When Bligh was given his mission there were a lot of unemployed sailors willing to take any work. Also, most sailors heard about life in Tahiti (especially about the sexual culture). Do you really think a horny sailor would pass up an opportunity to go to such a place?

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I'd be on the side that had the sense not to sail with that prick in the first place.

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I'd be on the side that had the sense not to sail with that prick in the first place


I fail to see what was so terrible about Bligh, unless you're someone who always sides with underlings and against authority figures. He was unfriendly and shouted a lot, but so are most military authority figures. Whether you're an 18th century captain in the English navy or a drill sergeant in today's army, you need to be harsh to keep order among the rabble - it's all about maintaining authority. Anything else would be perceived as being weak and soft.

If Bligh was such a cruel tyrant, why did he have Churchill and his buddies flogged for desertion, an offense that was typically punished by hanging?

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Thanks for the comment.

I wasn't commenting on history---which isn't actually known with any certainty (unless you like "...but George Washington was very kind to his slaves...")---but rather on the movie (and previous movies) and the characters presented in it.

Bligh was a prick beyond belief, which contributed greatly to his fate. You have to believe that to watch this movie. Otherwise, the movie would have had no perceptible plot.

Or, you can just refer to the logic of my previous post on the same title:


by mail-2775 (Thu Oct 28 2010 06:53:07)
NOT Re: Daniel Day-Lewis as Fletcher Christian?

No.

He's awesome, but Mel Gibson was right for this.

The comments on this string are hilarious.

Are you guys talking about William Shakespeare or Fletcher Christian?

Multilayered?

Complex personality?

Fletcher Christian was a 25-year-old repressed Protestant who was trying to get some Asian booty!

(a tradition that continues today, where 70% of the people getting off the plane in Bangkok are British guys who can't get any back home)

P.S. I think the suddenly explosive performance in the scene where the mutiny takes place was just a rehearsal for his rant in 2010:

“You go out in public and it’s a *beep* embarrassment to me. You look like a *beep* bitch in heat. And if you get raped by a pack of ni**ers it will be your fault. Alright? Because you provoked it. You are provocatively dressed all the time with your fake boobs that you feel you have to show off. I don’t like it. I don’t want that woman. I don’t want you. I don’t trust you. I don’t love you....I am going to come and burn the *beep* house down... but you will blow me first.”

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Bligh was a prick beyond belief, which contributed greatly to his fate. You have to believe that to watch this movie. Otherwise, the movie would have had no perceptible plot


In the movie as in reality, Bligh had people flogged for offenses that merited hanging by other captains (i.e. when Churchill and his gang deserted, by all rights they should have been put to death - it was the law aboard all HMS ships). It's hard to call somebody who spares people's lives for what was then a capital offense a "prick beyond belief" no matter how uncharismatic he was or how much he shouted.

To me, the film's plot (and the historical mutiny) was not driven by Bligh's cruelty. It was driven by a spoiled, moody rich brat (Christian) and a gang of rabble who preferred lounging around in Tahiti to their work and their duty. Bligh was just doing his best to keep order among them.

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You're quite right. Bligh was actually lenient. It was said, he flogged when other captains could've executed men, and screamed at them when other captains ordered floggings.

Bligh's main character flaw was that he was mercurial and would blow up over relatively small things. However, once he also forgave and forgot after he was done screaming.

One book described him as being a superior seaman who simply lacked good people management skills.

Bligh was likely the worst captain to have if you were in smooth, calm conditions. Then he would nag and rant about the slightest things. However, he was probably the best captain to have if you were in a violent storm or going into battle. That's when his superior skills as a seaman came to the fore and he forgot to nag about things. He was essentially the ideal "foul weather" captain who was at his best in an emergency or crisis.

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I'd rather go with Captain Bligh, for two reasons. First, mutiny and piracy were capital offenses. Second, Bligh was by far the superior leader--after all, he led most of his men to safety while Christian led most of his men to doom and destruction.

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[deleted]

I'd side with Bligh, as did the majority of the crew.

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"Bligh. And if I live through that I'm quiting the Royal Navy, or at least, get on a different ship with a different commander." - nyghtflyer

As if you had a choice :-(.

I'd probably have sided with Bligh. I wouldn't have liked it, but I'd be no traitor and mutineer. Upon returning to England I would have done what I could to bring the treatment of the Bounty's sailors to light while respecting the chain of command to the extent possible. Or I'd just suck it up and get on with my life.

There is nothing so much like God on Earth than a General on a battlefield or the Captain of a ship at sea. There are reasons for that. Fletcher Christians heart may have been in the right place, but he cracked and went about the whole thing all wrong.

In any case, I have a great respect for Bligh as a sailor. Nobody could do what he did unless they were damn good at what they do.

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Paranoid racist and uptight capitalist vs narcissistic yuppie?

I'll pass.

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Once again, someone making the fundamental error of judging people in history by today's standards.

"Well she turned me in to a newt!... I got better."

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