ITALIAN?


Isn't it odd that Tony and Samantha couldn't speak Italian. I believe Tony's parents and grandparents were Italian immigrants, they probably spoke more Italian than English in their home. He was raised in the Italian section of Brooklyn! Speaking Italian should be second nature to him. Even in the Godfather the Corleones spoke Italian real well. I'm just using them as an example, I know most Italian Americans resent that movie. Sorry If I offended any of them.

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Not necessarily. My mother was raised by Sicilian immigrants. My grandparents spoke almost exclusively Italian in their home. However, my mom only recalls a few phrases. The first generation of immigrants rarely pick up English fluently or as their first language, as it cognitively much more difficult to learn a second language as an adult than it is a child.

Keep in mind that 50-75 years ago there was a tremendous backlash & discrimination against non-Aryan/non-Anglo immigrants (much like there is against the current wave of Latino immigrants). There was a lot of social pressure to assimilate in order to advance economically & culturally, more so than even today. Tony would fall into the tail-end of that generation.

My grandparents utilized the school system & older siblings to ensure that all of the kids were fluent in English so they could land better jobs & be accepted by others. Unfortunately, this over-emphasis on assimilation was at the expense of the family's cultural heritage.

Today we see many more immigrant families where a balance is struck--the children tend to retain both their legacy language & learn English. Generally, this is a more recent trend, occuring only in the past generation or two.

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Thank you for the history lesson I didn't know Italians had it that bad. And thank you for replying.

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As far as children learning English, (or for that matter, the predominant language in any country where they live), it can be VERY important. It **should** also be a priority for the 1st generation immigrants as well... read on!

I have a friend who is an MD in the USA, (Medical Doctor), and when he was doing his early work in a hospital Emergency Room, something unfortunate happened.
Fairly late in his shift, he encountered an older man and his granddaughter waiting for their turn. He told me he took one look at the man, recognized the appearance and symptoms of a heart attack victim, and immediately called for help to rush him to the upper floor for treatment.
Then my friend started trying to find out how the patient was not given immediate priority instead of being sent to wait in the curtain area, (seemed he waited there well over three hours after first being seen by the admitting staff). He checked the records, and the man had been given a low priority by the triage process. The records showed his granddaughter (he said she appeared to be about 5 or 6 years old) had been translating, and the chart said his complaint was a sore neck; he spoke no English.
(FYI, displaced pain in the neck or arm is a pretty common symptom of a heart attack, not just chest pain!)

What went wrong? The man spoke no English, and the child didn't know what was wrong, plus, they didn't press to be seen immediately. Since the man spoke no English, he could not have a dialog with the triage nurse to beter describe what was wrong... and the triage nurse didn't call for a translator, or there was none available. The vocabulary of a 5-6 year old child could hardly be expected to include medical terms, and that probably contributed to the problem, (Example: sore neck, stiff neck, sharp pain in the neck, throbbing pain in the neck, pain and tingling in the neck, stabbing pain in the neck, etc.). Also, once they were in the curtain area, they were out of sight of the public, (intended for patient privacy), and the various medical personnel who **might have** casually seen the man and potentially recognized the symptoms.


Learning "the language of the land" (yes, I mean the language of the country you are in, including for tourists!!), can be a matter of life or death, including your own life.
(Even learning/speaking a little is generally regarded as a sign of respect, so consider learning at least some of the language...)

IMHO, "What could possibly go wrong?" is a question asked by folks with little imagination.

What language did the grandfather speak?
===> Irrelevant.
Did he survive?
Only several hours longer, but he remained conscious... my friend said the patient more than likely would not have survived even if he had been immediately treated when he first came to the hospital (at the time this happened, 1970's, and he waited a few hours before going to the ER). However, there should have been time for his family to have visited with him before he passed.
Do you suppose the family, and even the child, eventually blamed the child? I would hope not. The grandfather had been caring for the child while both parents worked.

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So what language did the grandfather speak?????

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I'm Italian-American and I love the movie Godfather (and Who's the Boss). My dad, brother, cousins also love that movie. Honestly, I've never heard of any Italian-American being offended by it. It was written and directed by Italian-Americans, and many of the actors were Italian-American. I'm not sure what it is you think might be offensive.

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I made a mistake by saying most Italians resented that movie. I can't speak for all Italians, but the ones I came across and knew resented that movie, the Sopranos, and any other movie that glorified the mafia. They say that's not what Italians are about. I can respect that,and I didn't want to offend them. Just like some African Americans (Which is what I am) don't like gangster rap or gangster shoot em up movies, because it does the same thing. Sorry about the misprint.

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[deleted]

I grew up in Brooklyn and my Grandparents came from Sicily. We all spoke Sicilian pretty exclusively in our household and so did many of my Italian/Sicilian friends. That's why NYC is broken up into sections, Little Italy, China Town etc etc. I remember that no matter what butcher or bakery or Fresh fruit and veg market we went to everyone spoke Italian and/or Sicilian. I disagree with the other comment about how the immigrants wanted their children to learn English and use it as their primary language. My Grandparents always spoke of our Motherland and we went back to visit every summer. Yes, the immigrants had many injustices against them when they came here, but they were always proud of their heritage. I have not one Italian or Sicilian friend in NYC that can't speak the language. Maybe it was just the area we were from, but I doubt it.

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My grandmother grew up in German household in a German neighborhood and she can't speak any German. So Tony and Sam not speaking Italian seemed ok to me.
My Granmom's older brother and some of her cousins speak/spoke German but most in their generation don't or didn't speak any.


I hear they eat you when you die.

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I grew up in a predominantely Italian area of Philadelphia, but most of my friends couldn't speak Italian although many of their parents or grandparents had immigrated from Italy. A few could-- but usually not well. My grandfather had been the son of Italian immigrants, but my father told me he couldn't speak Italian (he died when I was a baby). My grandmother, whose parents immigrated from Ukraine, told me that her parents forbade her from speaking Ukrainian, and as she grew older she lost the ability to communicate with her own parents (who hardly spoke any English). I don't know about New York, though. Maybe it's different there!

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My Granmothers from Pennsylvania also.


I hear they eat you when you die.

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[deleted]

Not really - my Grandmother who came through Ellis Island spoke Italian and English, my Mom spoke "a few words of Italian", but I don't speak Italian at all (though I do have a second language, not related to ancestry), so you never know, though Tony did seem to know the slang words pretty well (lol)...

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Not really. My cousins are half Italian and the parent on the Italian side was first generation. My uncle immigrated from Sicily with his parents when he was a teen. He was required to start school at the first grade and pass each grade in English even though he should have been a freshman or sophomore in high school when he arrived. I don't recall discussions about what language to raise the kids with as I was in grade school back then. But seeing the extra work he had to do simply for not knowing English when he got here I can see why they were raised with English.

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As I was reading this post, a new episode began with Tony speaking Italian on the phone to a relative. Sam explains to Jonathan that she only knows bad words. Tony later says his Italian is rusty.

According to my program guide, the episode is called "Tony the Nanny" and it was from 12/17/1985.

Just thought I'd share the irony of this episode coming on as soon as I started reading this post. :)

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[deleted]

I'm wondering about that too. Even if Italians had a hard time, I would think the children would still pick up the language at home, considering that's what the parents spoke. My parents are Portuguese immigrants, I was the first generation born outside of Portugal and even though I wasn't born there, I didn't learn English until I went to preschool. We always spoke Portuguese at home and still do and to this day I'm fluent in Portuguese for that reason.

Which brings me to my first point, how did the children not pick up the Italian language?

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Not really - my Grandmother who came through Ellis Island spoke Italian and English, my Mom spoke "a few words of Italian", but I don't speak Italian at all (though I do have a second language, not related to ancestry), so you never know, though Tony did seem to know the slang words pretty well (lol)...

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[deleted]

Tony did speak Italian.


He spoke Italian, but not much. I remember in the episode when was arranging a marriage for his cousin from Italy he try to speak it but , he struggled with words. In one episode a man had spoke Italian to him and he understand a word he said.

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Can I throw my 2ยข in...my mother was born and raised in Calif but both of her parents came from Sicily. They spoke very little English and found a little town near San Francisco with other Italians. My Grandfather was a fisherman so it was perfect for them. My mother was #7 of 9 children (all born here) and, I was told, spoke Italian until she went to school. Nanu passed away when I was a baby so I don't remember him. I do remember my older aunts and uncles (as well as my mother) speaking Italian to Nana but the two youngest never tried at all. And when Nana talked to all of us "kids" she tried to speak English. I used to think that if we had lived closer, I might have learned more Italian. It just wasn't a big thing because we lived so far away. Sadly, after Nana died, no one spoke Italian again. The little bit I learned as a child has been forgotten. My father wasn't Italian so it wasn't spoken in our home. I wish I had learned more and taken it in school when I had the chance.

Anyway...sorry for babbling...I am 1/2 Italian...Tony Danza might have spoken Italian to his parents/family at home. I really don't know. I don't know him in person. Some Italians really wanted to be "American" and tried so hard to speak English. Others were proud and spoke only their native language. Some tried to speak both. In "Who's The Boss" Tony did have a chance to speak a little Italian here and there but always seemed to struggle with it. I don't know if that was staged or not. He did do a great job on the old Italian song that my mother used to sing when I was little. Funny how she'd go around the house singing that goofy song but would NOT teach us Italian.

BTW...my mother liked The Godfather. She didn't appreciate all the violence but loved the fact that she understood every word (in Italian) that was spoken!

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I'm sorry about your grandfather dying and you not getting a chance to know him.
I didn't mind the babbling. LOL In fact I don't consider it babbling at all. Thank you for your post and that goes for everybody else who posted I really appreciate your opinion on this subject.

BTW The first two Godfather movies are one of my all time favorites too, but I was under the impression that the Italian American community despised the movies, because it misrepresented Italian Americans. Maybe I was wrong, but if you are offended, once again I apologized.

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I don't think you said anything that would offend anyone. I certainly wasn't offended. I'm proud of my heritage...on both sides of my family. Three of my four grandparents came here from the Old Country. My dad's mother was born in MN (as was he). Grandpa was from Greece. My mother's Italian family just adored my dad. No reason not to...he was awesome! What hurt me was that he spoke fluent Greek and my mother spoke Italian. But English was the only language spoken (I should say allowed) in our home. This was, of course, my mother's decision! You don't argue with an Italian! What got me was, when I was in High School, I heard a fellow classmate speaking Italian to her mother. I was so jealous! By that time, my mom's parents were both gone. But I remember very well her telling me that because she had trouble in school because of the language problem, she insisted on English being our "only" language. Between you and me...that was the biggest load of crap I ever heard in my life! You think (being Italian) she would have been proud of me for wanting to learn the language of her family. oh well...like I said...you don't argue with an Italian!

BTW...did you see that the TV Guide Channel is airing Who's The Boss? starting Monday July 2nd? That was why I had to look it up...again. It was one of my favorite shows. I had a HUGE crush on Tony Danza. Or maybe I had a crush on Tony Micelli???

Who knows?

But thanks for the reply. I do know a few words in both Italian and Greek. Never get to use them...everyone's gone now. I learned a ton of Spanish from my old friends. I have a great accent, too. I'm in CA and there are quite a few times that knowing a little Spanish has really helped!

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No

My dad's family is Polish/Russian but his relatives came over around the turn of the 19th century--and so they lost it. my mom's dad came over from Germany in the 1930's and realized it was not politically viable to teach his daughter German. So she never learned it growing up.

I can read/hear Spanish bc of being around my boyfriends and their families. I cannot speak it yet.

Antena tv is airing Who's the Boss staring October 5, 2020.

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