MovieChat Forums > Terms of Endearment (1983) Discussion > AWFUL movie

AWFUL movie

posted 13 years ago by curlyscloset
37 replies | jump to latest

This movie came out before I was born, but I finally caught it on tv last night and couldn't believe THIS won the Oscar!! I'm usually the biggest sap there is, I love sentimental movies but this movie made me HATE every character. Where is the development of the relationships between mother and daughter? We meet Aurora as a very overprotective, neurotic mother, and before we know it, the daughter is getting married to...someone. And the mother doesn't like him....why? Apparently, he's an unmotivated louse but the movie never lets us get to KNOW Flap. We see the couple become parents and struggle and fight, for some reason. i still don't know why i'm supposed to care about these people, but then we learn the husband is a cheater...maybe. So what does Emma do? Why, have her own affair, of course! Except, um, that relationship comes out of the blue as well. this guy pops out of nowhere and offers to pay for her groceries, and in the next scene she's going off to have sex with him? I couldn't believe what I was watching. Then, when Emma SEES Flip with another woman, she becomes enraged!! Because, HE shouldn't be potentially cheating on her!! Poor Emma...she then goes off with her supposed best friend (who we only saw in one scene in the begining of the movie) but, decides to go home and uproot her kids and stay with her husband....because that makes sense. then, the tears come...Emma has cancer!! but it is the shortest, most unemotional illness i've ever seen in a movie. Her "best friend" is there for her, but only offers to take care of the daughter, not the two older sons. So the natural decision Emma makes is to take her children away from their FATHER and give them to her mother. Because that makes sense. I barely noticed when she died, until Aurora starts crying. I couldn't believe I spent two hours watching this people, and didn't care about them at all. How could I, when the movie never lets the audience gets to know these people? Classic case of "telling", not "showing" us these people. Absolutely ridiculous movie that is truely one of the worst I have ever seen.

[–] ozzieink 13 years ago

Apparently a lot of folks disagree with you (me included). It does cover a lot of time, but I felt the relationships continue to build throughout the movie. I cared about Emma AND her mother. As for Flap, eh...

[–] MuchToBeGratefulFor 13 years ago

Wow, there is too much here to address, so let me point out that one thing you didn't get is that Emma and Flap made the decision together, that he should not raise their kids. She said she really didn't think they should be with him, and he acknowledges, "I'd probably mess it up." They both thought it made sense, and if you don't understand why it made sense to them, then you weren't paying attention.

And if you don't understand why a woman with 3 young children, who has never worked outside the home, would choose to stay married to her husband even though he decides to move against her wishes, I don't know what to say. It does make sense, at least for Emma.

You also didn't get:
this guy pops out of nowhere and offers to pay for her groceries, and in the next scene she's going off to have sex with him? I couldn't believe what I was watching.

Actually, the movie made clear that they met several times for lunches and holding hands; she didn't just jump into bed with him. Of course it's still adultery, but I have to wonder how well you were paying attention that you seem to think it was immediate. No wonder you couldn't believe what you were seeing.

And did you see the wrenching scene where she says goodbye to her sons? But you say it's the most unemotional illness you've ever seen.

Finally, I have to disagree with you about the characters and relationships, I thought they were quite fleshed out.

You must be the change you seek in the world. -- Gandhi

[–] lroy77 13 years ago

Your immaturity is showing (I'm 21 years older than you), and you've got A LOT to learn about life.

So let's deal with this step by step:

(Where is the development of the relationships between mother and daughter? We meet Aurora as a very overprotective, neurotic mother).
First of all the mother thinks her daughter has died of Sudden Death Syndrome, which babies REALLY die from in real life. Any mother would be concerned if she didn't think her child wasn't breathing.

(the daughter is getting married to...someone. And the mother doesn't like him....why? Apparently, he's an unmotivated louse but the movie never lets us get to KNOW Flap). Obviously, marrying a college professor is a noble calling, but Aurora thinks her daughter could do better (what mother doesn't at one time or another---and it works for sons marrying women too BTW).

(So what does Emma do? Why, have her own affair, of course! Except, um, that relationship comes out of the blue as well. this guy pops out of nowhere and offers to pay for her groceries, and in the next scene she's going off to have sex with him?)
This guy didn't "just come out of the blue". If you had the volume on, you would've heard that Sam had turned down the application for a second mortgage (to pay for the house). She didn't have the money, so this guy named "Sam" offered to loan her the difference. Emma only sought out his company-and there is NO indication that they had slept together (get your mind out of the gutter), just kept company by visits and phone calls-which is bad enough).

(Her "best friend" is there for her, but only offers to take care of the daughter, not the two older sons. So the natural decision Emma makes is to take her children away from their FATHER and give them to her mother.)
Both parents agreed that Aurora-who is actually the Grandmother-should take care of the children. She has every right to raise the children, and Emma also stated that Flap WILL still be in the children's lives and will be able to make decisions so he's not out of the picture. The best friend (even the closest friendship is hard to maintain when you live thousands of miles apart) has no right as she is not a relative. If Patsy were, say an aunt, that may have made a difference.

Do yourself a favor and NEVER watch Love Story or Steel Magnolias. Save us all the trouble.

[–] LaneMarie88 12 years ago

This guy didn't "just come out of the blue". If you had the volume on, you would've heard that Sam had turned down the application for a second mortgage (to pay for the house). She didn't have the money, so this guy named "Sam" offered to loan her the difference. Emma only sought out his company-and there is NO indication that they had slept together (get your mind out of the gutter), just kept company by visits and phone calls-which is bad enough).
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I also just saw this for the first time...and really enjoyed it....but I definitely got the impression that Sam and Emma began having an affair.

America...Land of the free, because of the brave.
A Marine's Daughter

[–] MuchToBeGratefulFor 12 years ago

there is NO indication that they had slept together (get your mind out of the gutter), just kept company by visits and phone calls

No, the movie makes it clear they slept together. They first meet for all those lunches. Then he has to drive way out to check out a house his bank will be financing, and invites her along. What do you think he had in mind? Of course, it's to have sex, and she knows it too: Once there, she tells him that she wants to do this, and she is glad she doesn't know for sure that Flap is having an affair because she would hate to think she was doing this just to get even. Then he gives her a passionate kiss, because she has just indicated they were going to sleep together.

Then in a later scene he calls her (she is on the phone in the bathroom) and he says he doesn't care if they go to hell for this, he is just go grateful for how good this has made him feel. What else could he be referring to, than that they have had sex?

I do agree the OP missed a lot if they think he just "came out of the blue", or that they slept together right after the grocery store scene. But they clearly DID sleep together.

You must be the change you seek in the world. -- Gandhi

[–] baran_erik 8 years ago

You're 21, eh, who'd have known? Now that you've put a few years behind you, I hope you've learned some things.

Aurora woke up the baby, AGAIN (you could tell by the reaction of the husband this wasn't the first time)because she was a tight ass control freak.

As it turns out, Aurora was right about Flap, wasn't she? It wasn't so much that she didn't approve of his calling, but of HIM. And she wasn't opposed because she thought she could do better, quite the opposite, she said Emma wasn't special enough to survive a bad marriage.

Yes, her fellow adulterer did basically come out of nowhere. Yes, they had met during a loan application, but that's not really a social situation, now, is it? The way they made it look, they met at the store and the next day they were out at the empty house. And if you don't think they did it, that just shows you how much you have to learn. Remember the conversation Emma and Aurora have as they're putting the kids to bed their first night back in Houston?

Would you want Flap to raise your kids? Do you not remember when the baby had croup and how put out he was? He couldn't care less about them. As for Patsy, yes, that was low to just say she'd take the girl, but to take three kids would be quite a burden.

[–] liquidsouther 12 years ago

I mostly agree. I didn't like the movie either. It felt like it was strong, yet to me, it seemed so incredibly flat and unemotional. A mere 6/10.

[–] taylorje 12 years ago

I loathed this movie the first time I saw it, on the big screen, and I still do. I watched it again in the vain hope that I might now find it entertaining and worthwhile. Not. The characters were cardboard and not one of them came alive for me. I don't understand why the Hortons lived so poorly in Iowa; he was a college professor and earned a good salary. Even with three children, they should've been able to manage better. Emma went from being a rather unattentive parent in Iowa to being mother of the year in Nebraska. The callous way the children's future was handled was appalling. Aurora coolly told Flap that Patsy wanted to raise Emma and maybe the boys, but she thought they should come to her. Why did they assume Flap wouldn't want them or wasn't capable of raising them? They were his children and his responsibility. You don't just give your children away when the other parent dies. You step up and take responsibility. Horrible, awful movie!

[–] MuchToBeGratefulFor 12 years ago

Why did they assume Flap wouldn't want them or wasn't capable of raising them? They were his children and his responsibility.

Because Flap agrees that he shouldn't have them. "I'd probably mess it up."

That may make him an awful parent*, but that doesn't make it an awful movie. Movies aren't awful just because they show people making what you may consider to be awful decisions.

(*some would say it makes him a good parent, that he gives the kids to people who will raise his kids right.)

You must be the change you seek in the world. -- Gandhi

[–] eskimogeisha 12 years ago

The way Flap relinquished his kids because he'd "probably mess it up" was the last in a string of awful decisions by these horrible people. I felt no sympathy for any of the adults. What parent hasn't thought at one point or another that they'll mess it up? How could it possibly be in the children's best interests to be raised by that neurotic, immature, controlling grandmother instead of a father who was never shown to be anything but a good parent whom the children loved?

It seemed totally unrealistic that a man who's just lost his wife - a woman he claims he still loves - would so easily hand over his children as well. So what if it's a lot of work to raise three kids with a full-time job? The family should've been discussing ways to make it possible for him, not ways to eliminate those three inconvenient little lives from his.

Everyone in this movie was so unsympathetic. I realize it was an attempt to make the characters "realistic" but I really don't want to spend time with anyone so dreadful, real or imaginary.

If I cared enough about any of them, I'd be seriously concerned for the future mental health of baby Melanie under Aurora's influence. Screwing up her daughter wasn't enough - yay, now she gets a shot at the granddaughter.

[–] MuchToBeGratefulFor 11 years ago

The way Flap relinquished his kids because he'd "probably mess it up" was the last in a string of awful decisions by these horrible people.

Wow, a person mature enough to recognize that he would mess up raising his kids, is making an awful decision to let their grandmother raise them??? That makes no sense.

You must be the change you seek in the world. -- Gandhi

[–] Obnoxiously-Adorable 8 years ago

Agreed about Flap. I cannot state emphatically enough what a piece of shít he is. He's so unemotionally attached to the children of his dead wife that he's just going to give them to someone else to raise-his mother in law, who he loathes? Whether you feel like you'd "screw it up anyway" or not (newsflash-that's not an uncommon belief amongst parents) you don't just give them to other people to raise. The way Emma and Flap just casually discussed Patsy and Aurora raising them instead of Emma being shocked about the subject even being brought up at all and worse, that he would actually agree to it is beyond my understanding. Is this a common thing that I'm unaware of??

Both characters were so unlikeable it's amazing. I thought I liked this movie until I watched it again. I guess as a parent it changed my view. It perpetuates the belief that men just aren't as emotionally attached to their offspring as women, and I'd like to think that's not true. Maybe it was more acceptable back when this movie was made, I don't know, but I can't imagine there wouldn't be outrage over this were it made now. Expecting your husband, the father of your children, to buckle down and actually raise his children after your death is something not felt in the 8o's??

Any men want to weigh in on this?

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[–] Chrsmassiah 12 years ago

I am only watching this film for the first time, and I really what the big fuss is all about this very average film.....It's a little offbeat, a lil quirky. However I have seen each of these actors in far better work......

[–] ryderdvs 12 years ago

The OP is obviously still too young to appreciate the reality that this film captures perfectly. According to the post, he or she, could only be 27-years-old, or younger, and is probably too wrapped up in updating her Facebook profile every 8 minutes, to understand the real comedies, and tragedies of life. Once you've really cared, and loved for someone (a spouse, or a child), then you can come back, and fully appreciate this fine film. Until then stick to watching films starring Matthew McConaughey or Sarah Jessica Parker.

[–] baran_erik 8 years ago

He wasn't a full professor, and associate professors at small colleges don't make that much, so it's not out of the question that trying to support a family of five would be rough.

Why did they assume Flap didn't want or wasn't capable of raising the kids? Did you not watch the movie? How put out he was when the baby had the croup? When he tried to pawn them off on Aurora and the maid when she was going in for the tests? Emma and Aurora talked all the time, don't you think they talked about how Flap was? He didn't want them, when she straight out asks whether he wants them, he doesn't say yes, he never said yes, just that if he did take them he'd screw it up. And he would. Maybe he would have stepped up, but I doubt it, as all he was interested in was chasing skirts.

[–] Prelude_in_C_maj 12 years ago

I'm watching this right now for the first time. I don't know how I managed not to see it, I've been around a long time and certainly way before this film was made.

I'd heard so many good things about it -- but it's boring me to tears. I'm even here, online, instead of bothering to give it my full attention.

I too felt NO sense of development. It's all tooo rushed. SUDDENLY this and this and this new thing is happening. What the fck?

I'm a middle-aged woman, just for the record, and I thought I'd find this film emotionally engaging and interesting to me. It's nothing of the sort. What the hell is with all the praise for it??

Just for the record, I'm female...

[–] Mayville97 11 years ago

This movie was wonderfully acted, great story but horrible characters. I hated every main character, including the kids. They were all so unlikable. When Debra Winger's character finally dies, I was relieved. Emma was awful and I didn't care if her brats were left without a mother. The movie is very engaging but what awful people.

[–] denise1234 11 years ago

I'm just going to tag on here, with my two cents, in response to many of the replies here (and not just to the OP's).

** THERE BE SPOILERS AHEAD **

Would've, should've, could've...people don't always act like we would, like what we would want, or how we think they should.

Showing imperfect people in movies is actually more realistic (and refreshing at times) than trying to show them as perfect people making perfect decisions. Life isn’t perfect, and neither are we as we try to navigate experiences that come our way and the people with them.

There *was* quite a bit of time passing in this movie...and, believe it or not, the older you get, the faster time *does* pass.

I guess they could have made this movie twice as long if some folks wanted more 'fleshing out' of the myriad characters presented in it, but 1) if some folks hate this movie so much already, I don't see why they would want 2 more hours of it, and 2) I don't think the intent was to focus on the satellite characters (Flap, Emma's best friend, etc.), but on the lives of Aurora and Emma, separately and together, and on their relationship, over time.

I don't know how anyone with any life experience could not find the ending sad.

Having lost a parent to cancer and caring for that parent until the end, the disease process seemed to take a long time, but when death finally arrived, it seemed that it came very fast -- too fast.

And, I also just lost a good friend to cancer: He died within two weeks of getting his diagnosis, so it doesn't always drag on.

It would be wrenching and devastating to have to have 'the talk' as a mother with one's young children, about leaving them so soon in their lives. That scene really gets to me. Emma was very brave in that scene, IMHO.

I've watched a love one die. Seeing Emma's last scene and the look on Aurora's face when we know that Emma just passed... wow. I've been there and done that, and that scene really got to me.

Flap obviously didn't think he was 'cut out' truly to be a 'family man'. He wanted the prestige and freedom he thought he was entitled to as an academic, and he seemed to feel (whether true or not) that Emma was intellectually inferior to him. And, frankly, she was portrayed as somewhat of a 'slob'. He wanted to be with arm candy that was at least faux intellectual, with whom he could go to faculty get togethers, and with little other complication in his life. He loved his kids, but he didn't want to be saddled with the responsibility of day-to-day life with them. Probably better that they didn't go live with him.

Aurora was somewhat neurotic (when it came to her daughter) but I tell you: if I had been Emma in the hospital dying of cancer, Aurora is *exactly* the kind of person I would want advocating for me. She loved her daughter (and her grandkids) very, very much. But, she was a very strong woman and thought that firm love was the best. People may disagree with that, but just because she isn't presented as a mealy-mouthed, handwringing simp of a woman doesn't mean the character as drawn didn't love her daughter and grandkids with all her heart or that some of her logic and reasoning wasn't in fact correct.

I wish, though, that she hadn't been so hard on Flap from the very beginning. Whether well-intentioned or not and whether she could 'see through' Flap from the very beginning, in-laws who act like she did can cause a self-fulfilling prophecy. If Flap had ever been 'wavering' about whether to stay with Emma or not (I think if she hadn't gotten cancer that their days of marriage were probably numbered anyway), Aurora's hate for him could have been the deciding factor -- the straw that broke the camel's back -- for his leaving his family.

Bottom line: Although I didn't agree with all the decisions made by or actions of all the characters in this movie, I think it was a good film. And, I also think that it takes a few years living on this earth to 'get' some of the scenes and to have some feelings about them.

11/16/12: The day the Twinkie died :(

[–] cliff-hartle 11 years ago

Yes it was awful. I came here today because I guess CBS Sunday Morning was doing an Oscar piece, the movie came up (remember it won 4 of the top 6 awards and nominated for 5) and my wife made a comment on how we remember how BAD it was.

We saw it the theater and PEOPLE WERE WALKING OUT after an hour or so. We thought about it too but stayed to the end.

We are wondering if its on Netflix instant view so we can look back and try to remember why we thought this way.