MovieChat Forums > Tender Mercies (1983) Discussion > Why did Max not tell his daughter about ...

Why did Max not tell his daughter about the song?

posted 20 years ago by emheffner-1
29 replies | jump to latest

I was just wondering if anyone has ideas on why Max lied to his daughter when she asked him if he remembered singing a song to her when she was a little girl about a white dove. He says he doesn't remember, then after she leaves he sings the first verse of the song and the chorus, "On the wings of a snow white dove." Did he just figure it would hurt too much to go into it? To get too close to a daughter he had no guarantee of seeing again? This is one of my all time favorite movies, and I always wondered about why he did that. I love movies that leave you guessing at things. Finally, this movie, "Network" and "Apocolypse Now" are Duval's finest works. Any number of actors could have played his "Godfather" role.

[–] darkskyz3 20 years ago

i believe you are correct! he said later in the film that he never has believed in happiness and he never would! he knew that if he got too close to those feelings he had for his daughter that something would happen to rip them from him again...a sad reality but this is what makes this film stand alone!

[–] Isaac5855 16 years ago

I'm glad I came to this board because this was my one question about this film forever...why he lies to Sister about the song, but I think I understand now...it's one of the saddest moments in the movie and I remember the first time I saw this movie, when he went to that window and started singing that song, I burst into tears.

[–] pazuzu-2 14 years ago

This scene stuck out like a sore thumb to me because Max seemed nothing but matter of fact and honest throughout the movie and this seemed out of place for him. But reading this I understand his possible motivations more.

Polls... One of the Main Stream Media's Jedi Mind Tricks.

[–] driver_8 20 years ago

Max finds security in being removed from things. You see that throughout the movie. Whenever he got too close to something or became too happy, it would all go wrong. He has become selfish. He loves his daughter, but does not want to become emotionally attached to her, because he fears the pain that will come with becoming close to someone. This is reflected in his speech at the garden after she died. However, you do see how Max changes at the end. Throwing the football with his step son, he is taking the fatherly duties. He realizes that life is precious and that by distancing himself from his daughter and not opening up to her, he denied himself the chance to ever get to love his own flesh and blood. He is not going to make the same mistake with his new son. He is no longer selfish.

Salvation is free

[–] 20 years ago

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[–] mvan_lee 20 years ago

I suppose that's the right interpretation, but I was bothered by the emphasis on Mac's "pain", rather than the effect of it on his daughter. You gather from it that "he's in so much pain" and the whole daughter subplot seems inserted just to show Mac's pain. Seems like overload, and not exactly believable.

[–] CRCateyes 19 years ago

That's the point, though, isn't it? After all, how many of us in our heart of hearts believe that anyone else's pain hurts as much as our own? Empathy is rare even in good-hearted people. In the end, Max' fear of involvement, of emotional ties and of the implacable certainty that nothing lasts forever comes ahead of his daughter's emotional need. That sounds believable to me.

[–] kesselchamp 19 years ago

It's so exciting to me to see this gem of a film being discussed so seriously on the message boards, it's one of my top 5 favorites of all time. I think Cateyes hit upon something, how many of us believe that anyone's pain hurts as much of our own? It has nothing to do with being selfish, it's just being human and a little self-involved, we're all guilty of it at some point. I think the subplot with his daughter was just an underscoring of the theme of 2nd chances. He wrecked his first marriage, and he was given another shot with Rosa Lee. He had no relationship with his daughter, and he was given a 2nd shot with Sonny. He even gets another shot at music. I've come to believe that THAT is what the film is about, second chances. I'd be interested to hear anyone else's thoughts on the subject.

"Sweet are the uses of Adversity" - Duke Senior, As You Like It.

[–] dosmilcinc 19 years ago

Mac is afraid to return to his past, and to change her daughter present. His exwife said to him that Sue Ann is happy, and all that she remembers about him is ... (sorry, english is a foreign language for me and I don't understand what she said, but I suppose she is remembering the times when he was a drunk and maybe bit her exwife, isn't so?) I know that his exwife has not very credibility, but the facts are the facts, he was a drunk and made his daughter's mother unhappy. I agree what you said about second chances. I'm not sure about agree how much hurts anyone's pain. My children's pain hurts me more than my own. I think Mac is afraid to hurt more his daughter (and himself) having closer relationship with her. Wrong choice?

[–] kesselchamp 19 years ago

Hey K Rick, where are you from? And how did you come across Tender Mercies?? I think you're probably right about the pain of the child being worse, not having any kids myself I hadn't thought of that.

"Sweet are the uses of Adversity" - Duke Senior, As You Like It.

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] vivian_anderson 17 years ago

I adore this movie-it's in my top ten favorites of all time.

I am pleasantly astonished at the wonderful discussion on this board!

I think he was afraid. How many times have you done something just like that?

[–] UncleBatman 18 years ago

It appears to me that he merely didn't want to stir up trouble with Dixie (the whole "conspiracy" thing).

[–] dosmilcinc 18 years ago

I think so, too. Maybe not merely, but also.

[–] peraxel 18 years ago

Good question, good answers. - If the writer of the film was asked I think he might answer: "I actually intended something else but I think you are right all of you."

[–] ijonesiii 18 years ago

That is one of the saddest moments in the film when after Mac tells his daughter (Ellen Barkin) that he doesn't remember the song, he is then scene standing at the window singing it. The way I've always interpreted the scene is that Mac's guilt about not being around when she was growing up has completely engulfed him and I think he was afraid to admit to remembering the song might lead his daughter other questions about why he wasn't there and other things that Mac really doesn't want to deal with and long dormant feelings that have begun to resurface. I think the song is a symbol, in his mind, of his failure as a father.

[–] qwiksdraw 18 years ago

Sometimes it hurts to remember.

[–] drogers14 14 years ago

This scene is the one reason I've remembered this film for so many years. I find his reasons for hiding/remembering the song even more haunting than what has been said above. I think he hid his feelings for his daughter so she would go back to her mother whom he still loved. He knew it was best for her. Sadly, he would never be able to take credit, from Betty Buckley, for doing the right thing for her and would just look like a jerk instead.

[–] mathis12-1 18 years ago

He was afraid of "breaking down" in front of his daughter.

[–] checkett 18 years ago

I think Mac's refusal to acknowledge that he remembered the song is another step in his redemption--the heart of the movie. It must be remembered that Sue Anne is seeking him out during a period of rebellion, and is purposely trying to infuriate her mother. During this particular scene, she is constantly putting Dixie down, and complimenting Mac. I think Mac realizes that he has no right to fuel his daughter's anger, as he abandoned her and Dixie actually raised her. Thus, even though he longs for his daughter's love, he refuses to let her idolize him.

[–] tnilfo 18 years ago

"Thus, even though he longs for his daughter's love, he refuses to let her idolize him."

This seems like the best explanation. I don't believe he was afraid of getting attached to his daughter, as somebody suggested above. He quite readily formed an attachment with his new wife and step-son, and these new bonds would likely be seen by him as evidence that he was capable, in his newly sober life, of forming successful relationships. So I agree, he probably motivated to lie to his daughter in order to prevent her from idolizing him.

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] kternes 18 years ago

I believe too that he didn't tell his daughter about remembering the song for her benefit and not his. I'm sure he was very happy that she remembered something positive he did for her but felt he had no right after all those years to have her respect while at the same time she was rebelling against her mother who raised her alone. I did expect him to sing the song however, when he viewed her casket, but obviously the writer didn't think so!

[–] govan1980-1 18 years ago

I thought the same thing in the scene with the casket. I imagine everyone did. And I was so pleased by the fantastic restraint the movie showed in bypassing the obvious emotional beat and turn it into something more powerful.

The song does make one more appearance, at the very end when Mac is singing it to himself as Sonny comes running out with the football. The whole moment is overwhelmingly powerful because it is so subtle. The use of the song underscores that Mac, instead of retreating into a bottle, is channeling his pain into a second chance with Sonny. Add to this the fact that he is gardening in the scene, literally planting new seeds, and you have a pitch perfect ending where another movie might have felt the need to explain everything and ruin it.

It was also set up wonderfully in the scene when Sonny is watching his mom dance with his Mac and he tells the other kid that, yes, he likes his step-dad. This echoes the earlier scene when he first sees his daughter and she says is all her memories of him are as a drunk trying to hurt her mama.

As for the larger question as to why he didn't admit to remembering the song in the first place a lot of the explanations I read here made sense. I guess it's not possible to know for certain. My initial reaction was that it just would have hurt too much to get into.

Small wonder this won the oscar for writing. A fantastic piece of work.

[–] bladh 17 years ago

You have all given wonderful and thoughtful suggestions. I have one idea that I would like to add. Has anyone considered that the title of the movie "tender mercies" refers to God's love and belief in man to abandon his past selfish life and redeem himself or start a new life? The whole "second birth" concept. When Mac sings this song, he is singing about baptism and being washed clean of the remenants of the old life to start a second life. I think that from this point on, in the movie, Mac begins to abandon the old life and start a second life, giving up the old ties which have held him back and brought out the worst in him. Before this, when he tried to go back to his ex-wife and the music industry, he has a crisis and almost went back to his old anger and bad habits. From this point on, after he sings the song about starting life anew, "on the wings of a snow white dove he gives his perfect love" he begins, in earnest, to build a new life. It is kind of a tie-in to "though your sins be as scarlet he will wash them white as snow" reference. Or, no matter how bad you were, through God's tender mercies, you can still find happiness.
After this song, he refuses to sell his new songs to his wife or her manager who represent the big corporate and corrupting industry that nearly destroyed him. He begins to sing in the new band and is, himself, baptized. There is an interesting conversation with his step-son about feeling differnt and looking different after the baptism. I think that he did not admit to his daughter that he remembered the song because it had deep meaning to him and he was in the midst of deciding that he needed to abandon the old life and adopt the new life. He had lost his chance to teach this to his daughter, when he had the oppertunity. This is something that a father teaches his child and he had missed the oppertunity when she was young and innocent. He was not in a position to be a father until he changed his life. If she had come back to him after he had finished his abandonment of the old life and after he had embrassed the new life, he would have sung it to her.
What do you think? Am I anywhere close here, or am I all wrong?

[–] Sam_Owens 14 years ago

Nothing is as good as Gus in Lonesome Dove

[–] rizdek 12 years ago

I've watched this movie many times. It's one of my favorites and I've thought about that scene. I was never convinced it was a lie. He'd been through a lot since she was little and I kind of thought he did forget...but then, her mentioning it brought it back. Not that other explanations might not work. To me, it kind of eptomizes the quality of this movie. It gives each person an opportunity to insert part of his perspective into the interpretation. I rather like adult movies that leave some interpretation to the audience instead of explaining everything clearly.

my god its full of stars

[–] first-things-first 10 years ago

I had the same thought as the OP because he sung it to her as she was leaving. Plus he had time to sing it to her before she died, in my opinion. I remember his ex didn't want him near their daughter. But the daughter had told mom she was going to see her dad and the song did seem important to his daughter. So why not tell her he remembered. Maybe he thought he had time, like most of us.

If we can save humanity, we become the caretakers of the world

[–] IcySpoon 9 years ago

You might want to check him out in,"The Great Santini". He gives a real powerhouse performance in that film. It's based on a wonderful book written by Pat Conroy.

Cheers