Got to get discussion started for this movie!
I can't be the only one who loves this movie...
It's impossible!!
MMMmmmmmmm........It was OK!
"Get In Touch With Your Inner Bitch!"
MovieChat Forums > Star 80 (1984) Discussion > Got to get discussion started for this m...
[deleted]
[deleted]
>>and i really liked that when the P.I. told Roberts to walk around the office and to talk so as to see if the tape recorder worked, that Roberts character, who always had something to say, couldnt think of something to say on the spot. he said: "Testing, 1,2,3, testing..." And it was really a deep moment, because it showed that a character like Snider really ONLY works while he's being spontaneous.<<
BrownDuck. You are right on the ball here. I never thought of that, but now it makes perfect sense. GREAT analysis of that scene!:-)
[deleted]
In a way there queensdaddy, you're right. But only if you have no clue of what the word spontaneous means! Being spontaneous happens because of a sudden impulse from within, and NOT caused or suggested by the outside. So Brownduck was infact right on the ball, because Snider was TOLD to say something, putting him on the spot, and thus he responds in a very formal way.
A flipside to this is when Snider invited to the playboy mansion. He meets this half-assed actor (Vince Roberts) who he sees as a threat, and starts taking this guy apart with his malicious attacks. Now, did Snider know that Vince Roberts would be there? NO. What you are implying is that he rehearsed everything beforehand. Which is ridiculous. One thing he had rehearsed in that scene though, was the old Hugh Hefner speech, which he recitated out loud to Hefner, with bad results. Everything he planned before hand in this film took a nose dive. He planned to open a gym, never got of the ground. He planned and executed a YMCA show for girls, it flopped. He discovered Dorothy Stratten spontaneously, with great success (see a pattern here?). He even tried to duplicate that success, with another girl, and he failed!
Do you want to be taken seriously? Then stop trying to be a smart-ass, and come up with some criticism that at LEAST has a hint of credibility. Just tell me a couple of reasons you hate this movie. What's wrong with it? I'm interested to know.
[deleted]
I disagree with your analysis of the scene between Snider and Vince Roberts at the Playboy mansion. I don't think there was any kind of malicious intent on Paul's part. He appeared to genuinely be a fan of of Vince and his TV series and it wasn't until he actually was in the middle of speaking with Vince did he realize how long the show had been off the air and he really had no clue as to how completely clueless and idiotic he sounded...like some stagestruck groupie trying to get into the pants of a rock star.
shareI think Paul was both star-struck and jealous of Vince Roberts. Paul is always very sensitive to slights, and Vince hits on Dorothy while ignoring Paul. So Paul gets revenge by pointing out that Vince's show has been off the air for a long time. The ultimate commodity in L.A. is one's reputation, and an actor who hasn't worked in a few years is going to be highly insecure. Paul knows this and brings it to the surface. Vince tries to impress Dorothy with his celebrity status, and Paul undercuts this by pointing out that Vince's show was cancelled (the twin poles of "cancelled" and "renewed" can make or break a TV actor's reputation).
After delivering this insult, Paul then (absurdly) tries to bond with Vince, hoping to find a project they can work on together.
There is literally not one bad moment in this film; the screenplay, direction, and acting are first rate. There's just one thing: this is one of the most depressing films you'll ever see.
Eric Roberts is truly brilliant here. It is one of the best acting performances anyone will ever see, and it's a must for up and coming actors, and being that he was not even nominated, it is easily one of the biggest oscar snubs ever. His intensity in this film is pure electricity. I like the scene when he's coming apart at the seams while talking to Dorothy on the phone: "Are you getting along with your director? Because I feel a director and actress should get along." And then he slams the phone. He knows it's Hollywood *beep* but until the end he's still trying to hold on and play that game.
Star 80 is a film that will have a powerful effect on you. When I first saw it, I found myself becoming anxious, almost afraid the closer I got to conclusion (this film really gets under your skin). Do I love it, I don't know, but I certainly have a whole lot of admiration for it.
Your assessment of Eric Roberts' performance in this movie is dead-on. One of the most brilliant and electric performances ever and the fact that he did not receive an Oscar nomination was a travesty.
shareThis is one of my faves. I found it on VHS for $3 at a supermarket a few months ago. I saw it back in the 80s and the thing I remember most is Eric Roberts' (Julia's brother). This is the first time Id seen him. He used to be such a great actor ("Pope of Greenwich Village") and now he's doing bad b-movies. You'd think Julia could throw him a bone from time to time. Mariel Hemmingway was good but she really didn't have a sexy enough body to pull it off(flat butt, broad shoulders). I heard she got implants to play the role.
shareStar 80 is a masterpiece, it might be my favorite film of the 80's -- along with Melvin and Howard. I've seen Star 80 25 times, and it holds up each viewing. I've read Fosse's shooting script as well, and it is brilliantly written.
Eric Roberts was of course brilliant. Roberts is utterly fearless, exploring every layer of Snider's character, going wherever he needs to go, no matter how off-putting it might be to mainstream audience members (in contrast to someone like Tom Hanks, Mr. Do-You-Love-Me-I'm-So-Cute).
Hemingway is just as good in her own way. Roberts has the flashier role, but Dorothy's character undergoes more change -- from naive girl to mature woman who realizes that she's outgrown Snider. There is a scene in a bathtub in which Hemingway breaks down, because she just wants to go back to Vancouver and be the little girl she used to be -- this is inspired acting, the revelation of geniune, heart-wrenching suffering, the loss of innocence.
Carroll Baker is perfect as Dorothy's skeptical mom, who is somewhat charmed by Snider while still seeing through him -- we see the cross-currents of complex, contradictory emotions flitting across her face, in her eyes. Cliff Robertson brings just the right blend of charm and condescension to his portrayal.
As for the portrait of Aram, I think Fosse has hamstrung by legal considerations, so he wasn't able to depict Bogdanovich as he was. Same with Hefner -- if the portrayal had been too negative, lawsuits would have undoubtedly ensued.
I have my own interpretation of the tape recording scene in the private dectective's office -- Snider is always rehearsing in the mirror, and this scene is of a piece with that theme, but also I think there's another interesting touch in this scene. Snider records his voice, and yet there is no playback -- in effect, his voice is erased. It is a suitable metaphor for his own life, which is about to be erased (In fact, this self-conscious sense of "remembrance" is Snider's last line in the film, before he blows his brains out -- "You won't forget Paul Snider" -- which is ironic, because Snider will be remembered, not because of anything he did, but because Bob Fosse made a movie about him).
More interesting stuff -- Paul builds a doghouse for his German Shepard King, and the sounds of hammering bleed into the next scene, in which crew members are constructing a movie set for Dorothy's debut film appearance. I think there is supposed to be a link between Paul and Aram here, they are both constructing metaphorical cages to house Dorothy (in the shooting script, Aram refers to Dorothy as a little bird who needs to fly away from Paul). Another metaphor could be a doll house. Both Paul and Aram (and Heffner, in his own way) treat Dorothy like a doll, and want to keep her (Paul is jealous, Heffner doesn't want anyone to know Dorothy is married, Aram has his own agenda towards her).
Also, I sense Shakespeare in the relationship between the characters, and if memory serves, it derives from King Lear -- Heffner is the King, Aram is the Prince, Paul is the unacknowledged Bastard son of the king. Dorothy is the Princess who must be married in a suitable fashion, not to a commoner. Aram belongs on the A-List, he is officially invited to the Mansion, whereas Paul is banished from the kingdom. Metaphorically, Heffner has spawned Paul, who represents the dark side of the sexual revolution, rather than the swinging, fun side.
There is also the play on King/Queen. Paul builds a doghouse for King, and he refers to Dorothy repeatedly as "Queen." He also discovered her in a Dairy Queen.
Many have complained that this film is too dark, and it is. Upon seeing it the first few times, I have to admit I came out of the theater depressed, because of the tragedy of wasted lives. But then again, are all movies supposed to be "up" movies? Isn't life sometimes depressing? Why do we have to be happy and cheerful all the time? If you think about it, Hamlet is depressing. But Star 80, like all great tragedies, gives us the exhilaration of great art. Like Bosch's Garden of Earthly Delights, it is a guided tour through Hell. Few are willing to follow on this journey -- very few artists, like Fosse, are willing to lead the way, and that is why Fosse's work will live forever.
In the "falling from grace" category, consider the following scenes:
-- When Dorothy's mother asks what Paul will do if she doesn't sign the consent form, he says, "I'll jump out a window."
-- He is dangled out a 14th-story hotel window because of gambling debts
-- During the carnival montage, a bunch of carnival rides whip up and down, sideways and out, creating a visual counterpoint to Paul's crazy lifestyle.
-- When he meets Dorothy's family, he says, "All the women in this house are knockouts," meanwhile on the TV we hear a cartoon character crash to the ground.
-- Back to the carnival sequence -- Paul rides the bumper cars, deliberately going the wrong direction to create a bunch of collisions, as is his wont; also, he rides the merry-go-round and changes horses, which is totally forbidden -- years ago, some friends of mine did this at Disneyland and almost got kicked out. It is exceedinly dangerous. Paul wants to "change horses" -- which ties in with the scene in which he tries to introduce some waitress bimbo to Hefner, to replace Dorothy, and also ties in with The Band's song "Up On Cripple Creek," the lyrics of which deal with a gambler who blows his money on "a nag."
Just rented this (again)! after viewing All That Jazz last week! Eric Roberts makes you love, hate, fear, pity the character of Paul Snider, sometimes within minutes.
A few off-topic comments.
WHY would Dorothy's mother allow Paul to take Eileen to the carnival? I wonder if that happened in real life. He did really seem to like and care about the little girl, didn't seem to be any "pervy" vibe. It also made him seem like a teenager. I wonder if he was an arrested adolescent, thus, could get along with Dorothy, still in her late teens, and be able to play with her little sister, at the kids' level.
If Paul actually did do metal sculpture, like the flowers and the hubcap thing, isn't it a shame he didn't try to pursue this? And the shows he put on, while not my thing seemed quite entertaining, and well-executed.
All the above makes you think...what a waste.
Of all the lives, not just Paul Snider.
I feel that Snider, at least the Snider depicted in the film, is a guy who is destined to be successful, simply because he is so driven, and has a great work ethic. He is also driven by a sense of low self-esteem, and he has to over-compensate for his perceived deficiencies (hence his punishing work ethic, visually expressed in the opening scene, in which he does push-ups until he collapses in sweat-soaked exhaustion).
Paul's idea for a male nightclub was prescient, as Chippendales and other male dance revues ultimately became big business during the 80's.
There is a significant moment, when Paul beds the black exotic dancer. She says something to the effect that Paul is like Avis, because he just plain tries harder. This is a reference to Avis' ad campaign about being Number Two, hence they must try harder. Being "Number 2" drives Paul insane. He is the second man to bed Dorothy (he assaults the jock, Dorothy's first, at the prom). When Aram comes along, Paul is no longer Dorothy's Number One. There is also Geb's speech to Paul, in which he says, "There's always going to be someone with more money than you, with a longer penis than you." In some ways, it is like a horse race, and this concept is underlined by use of The Band's "Up On Cripple Creek," the lyrics of which relate to a man who sponges off his girlfriend and loses money at the track. During the carnival scene, Paul goes from horse to horse, symbolically going around in a circle leading nowhere.
This leads me to another point of discussion -- Paul seems stuck in a perpetual adolescence. He dates Dorothy, a 17 year old, and attends her prom. Paul is obviously the oldest date at the prom. He sticks out amongst all the zit faced kids. The scene at the carnival with Eileen makes a similar point. Paul takes obvious relish in riding the bumper cars and the merry-go-round, more than most adults would. In both sequences, Fosse intercuts shots of young kids, to contrast with Paul's seedy wordliness.
[deleted]
I've always assumed that "they" is referring to Hefner and his empire. Or perhaps Paul is referring to the upper strata of American society, the elites, a group that has no use for guys like Paul.
Paul has enough drive and ambition to get to the Mansion and meet Hefner, but then he doesn't know what to do once he's arrived amongst the charmed circle. He's able to get out of the gutter in Vancouver, but he can't deal with the more subtle corporate atmosphere in Los Angeles. It's also possible that Paul is self-destructive, and deliberately sabotages himself any time he gets a break. Or maybe he just doesn't know when to stop hustling. His hard sell approach might work in the nightclubs of Vancouver, but in the more laid-back L.A. it is a turnoff.
I give Eric Roberts a great deal of credit for convincingly playing a character who is so insecure and desperate.
I always thought Paul taking Eileen to the fair was a little creepy too and I, too, was surprised that Dorothy's mom allowed it. The thought actually crossed my mind the first time I saw this that he might try something with Eileen but I was glad he didn't. The character was already brimming with slime potential and him making a move on Eileen would have put him right over the top.
shareGreat post regarding this movie...of course, everything you say about Roberts is on the money, but I also wanted to thank you for mentioning Carroll Baker's performance as Dorothy's mother. Baker's career in the 60's was always kind of a joke and most people never really thought she could act (look at THE CARPETBAGGERS), but she really proved herself in this movie. Her performance in this film was solid.
shareNo you are not the only person who loves this movie...I thought this film was just amazing due to taut direction by Bob Fosse and a mesmerizing performance by Eric Roberts as Paul Schneider. Roberts should have received an Oscar nomination for this performance...he was much better than the winner for that year, Ro[bert Duvall for TENDER MERCIES, just an amazing performance that makes the rest of the film worth sitting through.
shareI saw this movie in 1985 and it still haunts me. I thought it was sad and scary.
shareI do recall how tragic this movie was. Just like in "Sleeping with the Enemy" this husband was abusive and wanted to have control. Roberts was a beast! I believe Snider was very jealous and very Disturbed.He thought he owned Stratten and had a right to treat her that way.
share