3.1 GPA, 560 SAT
and this dude thinks he can get into Princeton. Get real, bro.share
Here here. Look, it was a lame, silly movie in 1983 showing all the good young Reaganites that all you needed to do was grease the wheels and cheat (in this case exploit women for your betterment and get the judge laid) and you'd get whatever you want. It's an amazingly toxic message that a lot of people seem to miss. For some reason people worship this film. I was 16 when it was released and in the process of applying to colleges. I just remember scratching my head.share
You completely missed the point.
It's a satire of American suburbia in the vein of American Beauty, not propaganda or glorification. You're taking it at face value.
What Would Gibson Do?
@ TexasPsycho26... you said, "It's so underrated it's not even funny. The Girl Next Door which ripped Risky Business off has a 6.9. How does American Pie have a better rating than this? Oh well, I hate young people nowawadays and I ain't even 30 yet."
i think im gonna have to agree with you on that!... cause i to aint even 30 (ill be 29 later this year) either.
although i did like 'The Girl Next Door' as it turned out better than i thought it would be. i gave that a solid 7/10... as for Risky Business, i gave it a 7/10 to but there's a chance i could go a 8/10 after i re-watch it here real soon to completely refresh my memory on it.... either way though, this (Risky Business) was one of the best "80's teen type movies" and probably one of the best "teen type movies" ever.
in general i prefer the old school (basically the 80's) teen type movies (i.e. Risky Business/Ferris Bueller's Day Off/The Breakfast Club/ etc etc) over all this 'new generation' (probably stuff from late 1990's to date, give or take a little) crap.
It wasn't a total score of 560. It was like 560 math and 530 verbal or something like that. Which is probably still not good enough to get into an Ivy League school but...
that goes without saying. My point is to get into an Ivy League school, one would need at least a 1400 score. I don't know how things were like in the early 80's, but that's how they were when I grew up.share
To cannarysw: What thbryn was referring to was the University of Illinois which is located in Urbana-Champaign, Illinois.share
either way it doesn't really matter. In the original ending that the writer/director intended, Joel wasn't supposed to get into Princeton but studio head/corporate cronie David Geffen made him change the ending so it would be a little "happier"...or whatever. You'll be able to see the original ending in the new 25th Ann. DVD release that will be out in Sept.share
Replying to a post several years old, but I just watched the Director's Cut of the ending, and he still gets into Princeton. The difference is that they don't go walking together through the park - it fades on Lena sitting on Joel's lap in the restaurant and they're both looking worried about the future.
My short films: http://www.youtube.com/user/jthix2554/videos?flow=grid&view=0
didnt his father go to princeton? maybe there was also that element, where his dad was trying to push him to go to his alma mater.. of course he wasnt getting in, he even said that himself.share
Also, you can't study business in Princeton. The only Ivy league school that offers business to undergrads is Wharton (University of Pennsylvania).share
Understanding the post is about 5 years old....
Not sure when you grew up.
They changed the scoring on the SAT in the mid-90's, I believe it added about 70 points to most verbal scores, although they obviously could not add that much to the scores that were near 800. You can check you SAT recentering at various sites, just google it. I think they changed for students who graduated in 96 and later.
In the early 90's, when I graduated, MIT and Cal Tech, which had the highest average scores in the country, were at slightly over 1400. The Ivy League average scores were between 1300 and 1400, so you did not NEED a 1400, although it would certainly help.
After the recentering, and with increased competition, the average scores went up, obviously.
Just google 'SAT recentering' for more information.
Here is a helpful link: http://research.collegeboard.org/programs/sat/data/equivalence
I guess you're the only one who paid attention. I think the people who post here got a 560 total LOLshare
both those scores probably aren't good enough for univ. of illinois either.
The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity.
you are an f---ing idiot. Greasing the skids? Boo hoo, you didn't know how to apply yourself in a creative way. Exploiting women? It didn't look like those women were there unwillingly.
Any way you limp-wrist, this is a movie meant to entertain, it is fantasy.
What a crass response. Why the name-calling? As for the points you botch:
"You don't know how to apply yourself in a creative way." Are you under the impression that admission to Ivy League schools is based solely on merit? And that all those who fail just haven't done enough?
The exploitation of women: Yes, the women were there willingly in the sense that they did not have a gun pointed at there head. They were there unwillingly in the sense that had better economic opportunities been available to them and to women generally most of them would not have chosen to be call girls. This is the relevant sense of "willing."
"This is a movie meant to entertain, it is fantasy." The movie is not in the fantasy genre, it is set in the real world. If you mean that all movies are fantasy then that can be said of any movie (except perhaps documentaries), thus justifying the most vile, destructive sorts of films. "Birth of a Nation?" Ah, don't take it so seriously; it's just a fantasy meant to entertain. Your attitude also betrays a lack of comprehension at anything more than just a surface level. Every work of art has a subtext; dismissing it with "it is fantasy" does not eliminate it. All it does is allow it to work covertly.
Those weren't street walkers, they were $300 (almost $800 in 2011 dollars) a night call girls. Not a bad economic opportunity.
This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.
Amen, brother. I hate all these goddamn moral crusaders. "But it glorifies prostitution!!! OH NO!!" Please.share
I take it as the opposite: to me it's criticizing a society that allows people to cheat to get ahead.
The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that.
Here here. Look, it was a lame, silly movie in 1983 showing all the good young Reaganites that all you needed to do was grease the wheels and cheat (in this case exploit women for your betterment and get the judge laid) and you'd get whatever you want. It's an amazingly toxic message that a lot of people seem to miss. For some reason people worship this film. I was 16 when it was released and in the process of applying to colleges. I just remember scratching my head.
I think you're overinterpreting a political message in this. I voted for Mondale and I LOVED this movie.
Plus, these SAT scores/GPA aren't much different than Dubya's - and he went to Yale. Some times, it IS about who you know. I think this movie was comedy that intentionally pushed the bounds of reality, though. It's not like they could possibly get all that furniture back in the house so quickly, as the parents were driving home from the airport, or clean out a Porsche that had been at the bottom of a lake in a day so that no one could tell the difference.
If anything, this coming of age comedy played with and satired a bit the issue of materialism (kind of a precursor of what would come with movies like American Beauty) - it wasn't an endorsement.
"Boy that was really exciting. I bet you're a big Lee Marvin fan aren't ya."
Can you imagine a party like that in a neighborhood like that and the cops not getting called?
This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.
Dubya got around a 2.0 gpa, but that was at Andover, where the median SAT score was about the same as the median at a lower tier Ivy League school. My sister actually went there. When the average student at your boarding school is Ivy League level a 2.0 gpa is actually impressive. I am not a Dubya fan by any means, but the people who talk about him being a C student, while literally correct, generally don't understand how impressive his performance actually was. Put it this way, if someone graduates with a 2.3 gpa in mechanical engineering from Cal Tech would you seriously consider them a mediocre student? I would guess that 97% of the college students in the country could not get a 2.3 in mechanical engineering at Cal Tech.share
At 16 you had these opinions? Is your name Sheldon?share
Were your parents hippies or something?
Joel had nothing to do with getting Rutherford laid. He didn't even know the guy stayed. He didn't even WANT the Princeton interview in the first place and clearly had no problem with going to the University of Illinois. (not a shabby institution in its own right)
Oh, and if the movie was released in August 1983, then it was likely filmed in late 1982. Reagan was only in office for about 20 months at that point. The term Reaganomics hadn't existed in '82. The only things of significance in his Presidency were the hostages being released the day he took office, getting shot, and taking on the air traffic controllers.
Of course, why am I reacting to something some idiot wrote five years ago?
"Dammit, Jim! I'm a doctor, not a bricklayer!"---Bones, Star Trek
You're probably still scratching your head today since you seem to have no clue what was being presented here. My guess is that you went into this film with a chip on your shoulder and fooled yourself into seeing exactly what you want to see. Here it was, 25 years later, and you're still nursing that grudge.share
560 out of 1600? Is he retarded?
You know, I don't find this stuff amusing anymore...share
560/800. I can't remember his other score, it was something like 597/800 for a total of around 1157/1600. That's probably slightly above average.
The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that.
I think the film should have ended with Cruise's character rejecting his admission into Princeton. The film is largely a satire of the materialistic world of the upper middle class, and Cruise's elation at being accepted by Ivy League standards seems to contradict this.
The moment where he dons his glasses in response to the interviewer's expressed doubt, and jubilantly announces with a smile on his face that "it's the University of Illinois" is perhaps the film's crowning moment, as it solidifies the character's arc.
By going to Princeton, he's negating this transformation and conforming to the shallow world inhabited by the people around them, eager to meet their BS expectations.
A ballsier ending would have kicked ass, but I suppose the one we have was non-negotiable, given the time and climate it was made.
"...if that was off, I'd be whoopin' your ass up and down this street." ~ an irate Tarantino
Are you kidding me? Scores and grades have nothing to do with a solid portion of the people that go to Ivy Leagues, the most famous example being George W. Bush.
Legacy matters a great deal to the Ivy League. It is soooo funny that everyone complains about "underqualified" minorities getting into top-notch schools (and "reverse discrimination) but the "legacy" tradition is far more classist/racist.
He was clearly from a wealthy background and a Princeton legacy. He did not earn it through his grades.
"Scores and grades have nothing to do with a solid portion"
They don't? I wonder how many Fr. will be going to Princeton next week who did not make high honors and get better than 1400 (old standard) on their boards?
You really would be surprised. Google "legacy admissions" and be horrified.share
Bush had a 1300 SAT Score.share
I looked it up. 1206. Big difference. 1200 is pretty average.share
Yeah he wouldn't be able to get into the U of I with those stats today. Unless he was on the Clout List.
Actually, when Bush went to school 1200 was well above average. 1200 when Bush was around was probably equivalent to 1300 after the SAT recentering of 1995. It was not Ivy League level even then though. At that time the median scores at the top school, Cal Tech, was around 1410. Since the SAT recentering of the mid-90's those scores have gone up.
"and this dude thinks he can get into Princeton. Get real, bro."
Actually, his total score was 1157. 597 math and 560 verbal.
And the maximum possible score at the time was 1600. I don't know if 1157 would have been good enough to get into an Ivy League school in the 80s, but it was much better than getting 1157 now. I think the modern equivalent of the score that Cruise's character got would be about 1736.
The test was "re-centered" in the late '80's and a score of 1157 would have been worth about 1257. That was a very good score and would have been enough for a football player or someone they wanted --for reasons other than academic-- but probably not for anyone else.
Harvard for example has turned down more than a few 1600 performers on the SAT which at one time was the perfect score.
The recentering was actually in 1995.share
I entered college in this era and what I found odd was I don't recall anyone getting scores ending in odd numbers. 597 seemed like a made-up number.
SAT scores weren't the only thing Ivy leage schools were looking for. W got into Yale with a 1206. Admittedly that was some time before 1985.
That was also before the SAT recentering, and before they eliminated antonyms ( I think). Because they were changed it is very hard to compare scores pre-1995 (when the change took place) with post 1995. At the time W went to Yale the average was about 1400. Now it is higher, but that is mostly because the recentering changed how scores were calculated. A 1300 before the recentering is equivalent to something like a 1400 after, so if you got 1400 before the recentering you are doing much better than someone who got 1400 after the recentering. This is all before they went to a 3 subject test, which changed things even more. I mention this because some people think average SAT's at the Ivies have gone up something like 150 points, when that is really not true.
I think they really screwed things up with the recentering. You used to be able to use SAT scores to get into Mensa. They won't take them now, at least from what I have heard, because they can't correlate them to IQ tests anymore.
I think the OP is mistaken about Tom Cruise's score in the movie. I think he got something like 597 on one section and 560 on another. 560 would be an absolutely terrible score, not close to good enough to get into the University of Illinois. If Cruise got something like 1160 that is much better. It's not Ivy level, but it is not horrible either. It would have been solidly above the median.
he didn't think so but his father did.
Things were way different in the early 80's in terms of getting into college. The competition wasn't nearly as tough as it is today. Granted, still not great scores at that time, but no that bad either. Princeton would have definitely been a stretch, but possible if he had the extra-curricular activities that he was trying for.share
You people need to remember the crush to get into the Ivy League is a relatively new phenomena. Sure, the Ivies have always been prestigious schools but the admissions craziness we experience today is mostly a product of the USN&WR rankings which started shortly after the movie was produced. Moreover, there has been a creep in SAT and ACT scores since 1980 so a marginal score today was a good score in 1980. I read an article a few years ago by an alumnus of Princeton. He had graduated in the 70's and was pointing out that his son, who had better scors than he had, had no hope of getting into Princeton. He also pointed out how much tuition had inflated so it wasn't likely he could afford to send his son anyway.
Times change people......
Interesting take there. So, what's happened? I applied for college a few years after this movie came out and although it was competitive, it wasn't what I percieve to be the situation today.
Is it simply a supply-demand equation? More college bound kids, no increase in spots? Because a higher % are going to college?
The expectation today is different. I graduated in 1983 right when this movie came out. I went to one of the best high schools in the country. But even there, half of the students did't go on to college right away. Today, a BA is the new high school diploma.
In the past 3 decades, the expectation has shifted greatly. In '83 you could still get a good manufacturing job in the US. The kind of "mind" work that is common today is helped by a college degree much more and college is pretty much required today.
As for the grades, the 80s was prior to grade inflation really taking off. A "B" student was a smart kid then. Today, you can't figure out who the valedictorian is because there are dozens of kids with 4 years of straight 4.0 grades. In 83, a 3.0 average would have put you in the top 25% of my class. None of this 90% is an A stuff, the school policy was to curve the class so that 10% of the studens would get an A based on historic statistics.
Per his interview, Joel was 51st in his class which put him in the 84% percentile. That's potentially a bubble kid for Princeton even today. US News says 97% of Princeton kids are in the top 10% of their class with the rest being in the top 25%.
The SAT is midlined at 500. For each section, 500 represents the median college bound freshman. Each 100 points above or below that represents 1 standard deviation from that median. So 600 (roughly where Joel is) on the 83 SAT means that you're above about 85% of all college bound students students. Which matches his class rank. 700 on the SAT would be above 97% and 800 puts you in the 99.9th percentile.