MovieChat Forums > Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983) Discussion > Two sets of villains

Two sets of villains

posted 2 years ago by Sidha108 (2350)
10 replies | jump to latest

It’s interesting how this movie seems to have two separate sets of villains that have nothing to do with each other with Jabba’s Palace occupying the first 3rd of the movie and the plot with the Emperor/Darth Vader occupying the rest of the movie. As a kid this always confused me since I was wondering why Jabba and the Empire weren’t on the same team since they were all bad guys. It also makes this movie feel more like a collection of episodes as opposed to one consistent film.

[–] millsey72 (9530) 2 years ago

As an adult now, are you still confused about this?

[–] Sidha108 (2350) 2 years ago

Lol. Not now as an adult, but I can see how it could be confusing for kids or those who don’t understand the series that well (eg my grandmother who thought Naboo was supposed to be Earth 😂).

[–] millsey72 (9530) 2 years ago

Your grandmother was right from a certain point of view because the scenes on Naboo were filmed on Earth

[–] HarlemEagle42 (16140) a year ago

This is something that George Lucas does in his '80s work. I think it harkens back to the serial-lite origins of the SW and Indiana Jones movies. Kind of like how in Temple of Doom, Lao Che and his sons were the baddies for the first 15 minutes. Also same with the Panama hat guy in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.

[–] Otter (24464) a year ago

I'm trying to think of other examples of a story where the heroes have to defeat a lesser villain before going on to fight the main bad guy, and the first one that came to mind is Saruman in "Lord of the Rings". I'm sure there are others in the Fantasy genre, particularly in multi-book series, because everyone in the Fantasy genre copies Prof. Tolkien.

George Lucas never turned down a chance to use a Genre cliche, he likes them. He celebrates them!

[–] Ace_Spade (9336) a year ago

A lot of movies have lieutenants of evil defeated before the Boss Baddie, but usually it's all as part of the main storyline. ROTJ does spend some time on a "save Han sidequest" before returning to the main storyline. If they defeated the Empire and then went, "Now to save Han!" and the start of the movie played, it wouldn't really change the plot much. If Saruman isn't stopped at Isengard, he'd have been a thorn in their sides during the Battle of Pelennor Fields and the story would change.

[–] millsey72 (9530) a year ago

Rocky 3. Rocky had to beat Thunderlips before fighting Clubber Lang

[–] Ace_Spade (9336) a year ago

It was purely practical. Harrison Ford didn't know if he was coming back (hence the multi-film franchise contracts studios make actors enter into these days) and so the creative team had to figure out a way to get him back if they could but write him out if they couldn't. Thus, they have this modular "prologue" to the film or "interlude" in the trilogy.

It is one of the flaws that stops ROTJ from its full potential. The Ewoks are too cutesy-bootsy, Jabba's palace is too modular, and there's some dodgy acting (in my opinion) between the main three characters on Endor. With the battle for the souls of Luke and Vader at the end, it has one of the absolute best final encounters in the series, though, and it's just a really fun movie over all. Imagining the Ewoks to be disproportionately strong for their size helps a bit, too.

I do wish they had found a way to more effectively tie Han's rescue in to the rest of the film. Maybe they could have been hitting an Imperial outpost and found Bobba Fett was fuelling up there on his way to Jabba. Leia could have been miserable and decided to peel off to ignore the mission and fight Fett. This could have had ramifications in the final battle... I don't know, I haven't thought it all through.

There is this, though: setting the opening on an open-air, daylight encounter gave us the micro-thrill of green lightsabres.

[–] Sidha108 (2350) a year ago

Perhaps Luke could be focused on Vader/Emperor while Leia, Lando, Chewie, and the droids rescue Han at the same time as opposed to it being two separate adventures.

[–] Ace_Spade (9336) a year ago

Yeah. To really bump this script up to the level of the first two, it would need more thematic coherence between the different parts of the film. I get why it happened - Harrison Ford's waffling - but they still might have tried to tie it all in. At least the opening is a super-entertaining build-up of our heroes becoming prisoners and (almost) sarlaac food before pulling off the sweet rescue. I still like ROTJ, but it just have more flaws than the first two SW films.