Celliers: British or Australian? - Merry Christmas, Mr. Lawrence (1983) Discussion

[–] cakeandtea 19 years ago

I think he is part of the ANZACs; he has an ANZAC uniform (obvious from his hat and the way his uniform stands out fromt the others). The scenes from his childhood look like they could be shot in NZ.

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[–] SmokeAndMirrors11 18 years ago

Although they don't state it in the film, I'd say Celliers is an ANZAC as the childhood scenes were shot at either Auckland Boys Grammar or Kings College (can't remember which.) They are both in Auckland, New Zealand.

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[–] Isleden-1 18 years ago

I think the filming locations dictated the supporting cast which explains why we hear extras sounding suspiciously antipodean. I think Celliers is meant to be British.

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[–] cakeandtea 18 years ago

Still wouldn't explain why his wear the digger's hat, which is a distinct ANZAC symbol and uniform piece.

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[–] Isleden-1 17 years ago

Perhaps the location also dictated the props available. Just a thought.

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[–] nospam-380-770625 11 years ago

Woo you get 4 points for the word =)

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[–] cakeandtea 18 years ago

I take back what I said before about the slouch-hat:

"The slouch hat worn by Jack Celliers (played by David Bowie) in the film is often mistaken as an Australian hat, but is in fact the type of hat worn by units of the British Army in India. This confused the Japanese in Burma and led to reports that they were fighting Australians there."

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[–] iceshard 18 years ago

I think if he were meant to be Australian/NZ they would have got David Bowie to put on an accent which he clearly hasn't so i think he's definitely british

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[–] cakeandtea 18 years ago

David Bowie with an Australian accent would be nausiating. Anyone who isn't Australian, trying to realistically portray the accent just sounds terrible.

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[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] cakeandtea 18 years ago

"Damm pan heads" Huh, what? Have you even seen this film? The point is that the film is trying to illustrate the connection between captor/captive and shows that no one party is right and each side thought they were doing the correct thing. Just like Lawrence (who of all people, should be royally pissed off by the Japanese) says at the end of the film.

The Japanese run POW camps were horrible, but there's no point antagonising the Japanese.

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[–] bdigital-1 17 years ago

Jack Celliars' flashback takes place in Souuth Africa. He's South African.

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[–] princess_eimear 18 years ago

In the book I think he's South African...maybe they were trying to represent that? Not sure though.

Never Judge A Girl By Her Straitjacket

Bean Girl:Eimear Ald Isle

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[–] cakeandtea 18 years ago

Yup, in the Seed and the Sower it was "Jacques Celliers" and he was from Africa (South-Africa? I can't remember).

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[–] luke_leonhart 18 years ago

I'm pretty sure that in the movie he was supposed to be British. As for the children - this part was filmed in New Zealand which would explain the accents.

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[–] lauriepiper 18 years ago

"In the book I think he's South African...maybe they were trying to represent that? Not sure though."

Bean Girl:Eimear Ald Isle

You are right Princess Eimar, Jaques Celliers is South African in The Seed and the Sower, so I can't figure out what is going on in the movie. The flashback scenes cannot be intended to be set in England-the beautiful plants rule that out.
Incidentally, anyone who likes this movie you should really read the novel. It is a masterpiece.

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[–] luke_leonhart 18 years ago

Thanks Pulman, I'll do that.

One thing that might help: I have a friend from South Africa and he has an accent that sounds a bit Australian.

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[–] cakeandtea 18 years ago

It really is a beautiful novel; though it's out of print now and wasn't Laurens van der Post's most popular piece, so it can be quite tricky to track down.

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[–] user-3133 18 years ago

Yeah Celliers was South African in the novel- though he would have been brought up as English, as a lot of English descent children were at the time. In the movie however he is meant to be English (that being the viewpoint most viewers would understand.)

And the novel is excellent, though strictly speaking the film is an amalgamation of The Seed and the Sower, and the Bar of Shadow as well. But I'm just pedantic as well :D

First saw this movie when I was 15, am now seventeen, and still in love with it.

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[–] cakeandtea 18 years ago

The Seed and the Sower is a novel comprised of three novellas interwoven (including "a Bar of Shadow") - I'm quite a pedant also.

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[–] verdantgrn 18 years ago

in the novel Celliers was a South African, if I remember correctly (it's some years since I read it) the reason he was chosen to work in special operations in Java was because he was able to communicate with the local inhabitants of the Dutch East Indies, ie he could speak Afrikaans which is a linguistic descendent of Dutch. Regarding the accent, I find there is a lot of confusion with South African, Australian, New Zealand and some regional English accents I am often taken for SA, NZ or Birmingham when I'm in the UK.

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[–] elitist 18 years ago

I suppose the accents all sound the same to a Japanese!

Seriously, I've always thought that 'Lawrence' was Laurens van der Post's version of himself (both lived in Japan before the war) though being played by Tom Conti meant that he was going to be portrayed as an Englishman. I think Jack Thompson's character actually is meant to be English, but he just ends up sounding like an Australian putting on a not-very-convincing English accent! And although the flashback scenes were clearly filmed in New Zealand, it was at a 'more English than England' boys' school, so I think Celliers is meant to be English.

Does it really matter? The point is that they all came from the British Empire, with shared traditions and attitudes - particularly those of the 'officer class'.

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[–] mechafi 12 years ago

Also, the British Empire was already crumbling and some South Africans of English (as well as Irish, Scottish and Welsh) descent emigrated back to Europe so while he might have been born in the SA, he could have resided in the UK before the war.

Because of the Boer Wars and other conflicts in the turn of the century SA, Namibia (or South-West Africa) and Rhodesia, there were also many colonial officers there who were really never "South African" in the same sense as earlier settlers. They just served there for a few decades and then brought their families back to the UK.

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[–] Polaris_DiB 17 years ago

South African, actually. Filmed in New Zealand, but his character is supposed to be South African.

--PolarisDiB

My mind is dilapidated with my thoughts.

My friends say I think too much.

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[–] sara-jane.s 16 years ago

although in the book jack celliers is south african, they are definitely trying to portray him as a new zealander...when bowie is playing a 17 year old schoolboy (at the age of 35...the only bit of the film i find a little painful)...he is attempting an antipodean accent of some sort...and his brother has an accent...if they had gone to a private school, they would probably have had english teachers and been encouraged to have a more neutral accent...the outside scenes are very obviously not england...

i always thought this is where the young ones got the following in the episode nasty

VAMPIRE: Ahhhhh! Fooled you all! You fell for the oldest trick in the book, the old "strange parcel" routine. And you were completely taken in by my phoney South African accent!
NEIL: Oh really? I thought you were Australian, like David Bowie!

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[–] r1g0r 10 years ago

the movie is never 100% specific, and it also quite different from the book.

"the seed and the sower" by Laurens van der Post

in the book, celliers is south african.

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