ENDING- Real or Fantasy?


I know there is another thread on this site regarding the question of whether or not some the final scene is real or not- but I'd like to put forward another theses- the entire end sequence (news footage and performance after prison term) is a fantasy- or at least Scorsese was wanting to raise this question by what he does with the final shot and sound effect.

Is Scorsese challenging us to consider whether the end is real or not?

I think he is. Like at the end of Inception. He reuses a technique / theme that he has already introduced- the rising audience sfx and De Niro staring off for too long- implying the end was in his head.

Thoughts?

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This is a good question, and I had wondered that as well. I think the very final scene, with Rupert in bright red suit staring at the applauding audience, is fantasy. However, I'm not sure about the newsreel commentary being fantasy or genuine.

From a larger theme of "obsession with celebrity" this could be genuine, and certainly supports Scorsese's overall commentary.

However, it does fit the bill with Rupert's fantasy as well.

I think it makes more "literary" sense for the newsreel montage to be genuine as it highlights Rupert's mediocrity being thrust into greatness by an act of perverse sensationalism rather than talent.

Regardless, the final frames are, in my opinion, fantasy as I believe we are returned to Rupert's thoughts. There is something both settling and unsettling that his fantasies have become real, and yet he remains entrenched within them.

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My goodness..it's been decades since I've seen this film, and the only reason I came across this was because I'm trying to find a copy. This film is now on my "bucket list" ...it consists of films I saw when I was very young, and I want to see again, and own so I can watch again and again before "the end". All the films on my bucket list are films that meant something to me in some way -- scared me, perplexed me, out of the ordinary, foreign films, etc., and these films have been rarely shown.

Now that this point is mentioned, I never even went that far with this film, but I am sure that it is a valid point. At the age I saw this, I took it as a "isn't that payback" kinda ending. That celebrity comes with crime, and as Rupert's paying for his crime this is what enviably happens afterwards: him getting everything he chased, BUT the cycle begins again with him (and we as the audience were to know that what Rupert did, was going to happen to him as well). But now this point...could be a wish, a fantasy of a man who still could not give up his dream/his obsession even in despair.


"Logic is an enemy and truth is a menace" - The Obsolete Man

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I would like to see what other movies are on your bucket list!

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Just watched it, I thought the ending was a fantasy too. It was probably his most realistic fantasy in the entire movie so it's a tough call.

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I think the movie is certainly open to that interpretation. We have several scenes in the movie where Rupert is clearly acting out his fantasies. So it's quite possible that the ending is yet another fantasy, yes.

Personally though, I don't really go along with that interpretation. I think it's a bit of a cop-out, to be honest. It doesn't really give us any further insight into Rupert's character, or make any wider point.

We already know that Rupert spends his time living in a fantasy world as this has been well established in the movie. Driving the point home in the ending doesn't really add anything to the story.

It also removes the wider point about the nature of celebrity and how people can become famous without really doing anything to earn that fame, or for all the wrong reasons.

The point of the final scene is to show that, while Rupert has finally managed to achieve his dream of becoming famous, there is no real follow up act for him. In the final moments of the movie, Rupert is out of jail and he is making his return appearance to TV. The announcer introduces him, and the crowd goes wild. Rupert stands there on stage acknowledging the applause. But that's all he does. This final scene is held for an inordinately long time. Rupert drinking in the applause but doing nothing else. The point being that Rupert has absolutely nothing to say. He is not famous because of any kind of special talent. He is merely famous for being famous.

This suggests that Rupert will be confined to the dustbin of history as soon as the public switches its attention to another fad. At best, he will be remembered as a freak show curiosity. So while Rupert was driven to become famous because of his abusive childhood, to get a sort of revenge on the people who bullied or ignored him, his newfound fame will not bring him any respect. In fact, he will continue to be a figure of ridicule, only now he will be ridiculed in the public eye.


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I've always considered the ending 'real'.

Which, to me, is what makes it so brilliantly creepy and far ahead of its time.

------

Wait a minute... who am I here?

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I agree Doom. Unlike the earlier fantasy/daydream sequences, there's nothing to indicate the ending isn't 'real'.

Rupert got what he wanted, without having to 'start at the bottom' or 'start working clubs', etc. Remember, he told Rita a man could have anything he wants as long as he's willing to pay the price. For him it was a couple of years in jail.

I think the ending confirms how people are willing to worship fame no matter how it's achieved.


No, you're the tough guy...I'm worse

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Actually there is. I just watched it, and in the final shot, as the camera zooms in on Rubert in his red suit, the announcer says his name over and over in an extremly exaggerated fashion, indicating that it is in his head, what he wants to hear.

But even though it's probably a dream, the book deal may not be that far off, that could probably happen in reality so who knows.

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But even though it's probably a dream


That's my point...in the earlier daydreams, there was no 'probably' about it; Scorsese showed us something that seemed real, then pulled the rug out. Two or three times he let us know what we just saw was a fantasy. Not the case with the ending.

One could say that the whole kidnapping was in his head too; or going to Jerry's summer house; or the date with Rita; however, none of those had the 'gotcha' moment either.

I think even if Scorsese himself said the ending wasn't a fantasy, some people would say 'Well, I still think it was'.

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USUALLY with a character having a movie "all in his head", he appears in every scene. Doesn't explain the Masha/ Jerry Langford scenes or the guy trying to barge in on the show with a fake name.
Because Rupert would have no reason to imagine such things.
And the absurdity of the whole newsreel footage makes me think Scorsese was commenting on how silly Rupert may be, he still "wins" in the end.
That of "unearned" celebrity.
Biggest clue?
Jerry Langford being pissed off when he sees Rupert in the TV showroom after escaping from Masha.
Again Rupert would have no clue about that.
Put me down for a "real" ending.

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I think it's kind of meant to be both. I felt like the ending was an attempt to capture the surreal experience of him actually achieving his goal, and now standing in the spotlight; even though the fame will quickly fade, like any fad news story, that detail is conveniently ignored by Pupkin's psyche through the distractions of his delusional inner world. So we're seeing a blend of reality and fantasy. That's my two cents anyway.

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?? No it's probably NOT a dream, the other guy explained it above you. Rupert came out of prison and had nothing more to say really to his audience, and just kinda froze up. The MC host at this point tries to fill in the dead air, it's quite normal.

You may have some small argument but not really

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I quite agree with you both:
Especially your comment "I think the ending confirms how people are willing to worship fame no matter how it's achieved."

Considering this is a 1982 film it was prophetic to say the least: A quick glance at any former "Newspaper" today will validate that: The endless "stories" about anyone & everyone rated as 'stars' or 'celebrities' yet are unknown outside the very shallow adulation their every passing-of-wind is faithfully reported upon, followed & accepted as truth & fact....&...sadly...worshipped.

The same ex-newspapers fail in their duty to inform & educate people as to the reality of what shapes their lives.

Movies are legitimate escapism from those realities....yet here was a movie that told us what we would become.....For that alone, this is a brilliant movie.

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True, it was prophetic, but I believe it was also inspired by incidents and things already present. People getting famous for the wrong reasons. Off the top of my head: Tony Shafrazi. Who vandalized Picasso's famous painting Guernica then later became one of the most famous gallerists and dealers in NYC. Not exactly the same thing, and maybe Shafrazi's case is more complex, but still. I am sure there are a couple of examples. Maybe someone can help here? I'm not American, and wasn't living in the states back then, so there is a lot that I missed.

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I agree, such a prescient film. And one of my favourites of all time.

Hot lesbian witches!

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[deleted]

Just saw the movie for the first time. I feel pretty confident the end was in his head. The biggest clue to me was when he is in the bar at the end, seeing the taped stand-up of himself. The crowd seems to really enjoy it, laughing heartily, (which would have translated to those around him) but then when the detectives are taking him to the car, one made a comment about how bad the jokes were. It seems the ending story of him getting out of prison and making big waves with a book and new show is his new fantasy. This ending scene is what he's imagining from prison I'm guessing. For example, the producer said, go out and get a gig and call us and we'll check it out. There's no way to get to a certain level without going through the hard part of playing small clubs, there is no easy route is the message I got from it. He might have been able to get better someday if he had done the hard work, be vulnerable in front of a crowd, taking rejection, pushing through that rejection, but he, like many others are too scared to do that or just don't want to do the hard work. That's why he will forever live in his fantasies, trapped in a prison of his fears. Some people seem to have the perception that in today's culture, people who have "made it" are pushy, law-breaking, self-centered, take-no-prisoners people. In my opinion, it takes mostly elements of passion, creativeness, dedication, talent, likability, luck and refusal to quit. But mostly talent, and Rupert simply did not have it, or at the very least refused to nurture the seeds of talent he did have, instead he tried to force his way in like a bull in a china shop, pushing himself deeper into his own fantasies when he landed in jail.

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I tried to find the "biggest clue" you mentioned but didn't find any. His fame wasn't due to his talent as a stand-up. but due to how he managed to get on TV. this is quite clear and doesn't need explanation. He is obviously disconnected from reality. This is also evident and clear throughout the film. Whether at the beginning talking to the lady from his school, or later on forcing his way into Jerry's office, etc. He doesn't seem to have a problem standing in front of an audience and feeling 'vulnerable'. He did it. He is mediocre, but that's okay, because people get famous for many reasons. The end, in my opinion, is both, real and imagined, in his head. He did what he wanted to do, got on TV, and people are talking about him, but he is still living in his own head and seeing his 'success' the same way he used to fantasies about it before.

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Lol utterly ridiculous. That big post you wrote is YOUR fantasy and no one else's xD

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Thats what i like about this film the ending makes you think is it real or not real is it another one of rupert' illusions.
I think the book scene is real but the very end where rupert is in front of the audiance i think is his illusion..
Scorsese could have wraped up the questions by adding a scene after of rupert still in his prison cell and like acting out the show on his own.
But its good that he did it like this to raise questions.

Like shutter island at the end. Has teddy's mind relapsed back into his fantasy story or was he just acting like he was to get lobotomized because he could not live with his memorys and quilt

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I gotta go with imagination. His name is lingered on far too long, like something one would see in a hallucination about fame. Rupert absorbing his name over and over and just soaking up the adjulation from an audience he never acknowledges. Someone suggested the curtain is to resemble prison bars, but in looking at it again just now, I don't really see it.

Stalkers weren't all that uncommon in the late 70s/early 80s, with Letterman himself ending up with one that continually broke into house for a number of years before bumping herself off.

"Jesus, does anyone?"

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It's to show that the dream comes true that it's shot in a way you could think it's a dream. But it's not, I think. I hope it's not because this way the film is totally clever, surprising and clever. It shows first that, how crazy he was, he was not less funny than most of people on tv. And it shows, more important to me, that you can become famous not by your talent but only because you did something crazy. Maybe this point was strange at this time, but today it's just the usual stuff we're dealing with everyday...

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I feel that the ending is real. Think about it – if that situation happened in real life, OF COURSE he would be instantly famous and get a million dollar book deal. Perhaps not his own show, but you never know! If the media could find a way to spin the story to make Rupert out to be the good guy, it's certainly a possibility. I do think that in the very last shot of Rupert in front of the TV cameras, the look on his face shows that he has perhaps changed during his time in prison. He doesn't look as thrilled to be there as he would have been six years before.

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In this day and age of notoriety (fame)? coming from bad behavior seems to me Rupe was pretty far ahead of his time. His lifetime of imaginary life paid off. kardashians got famous for a blow-job, didn't they? Hey, they own an entire network now.

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