MovieChat Forums > Educating Rita (1983) Discussion > I'm not a hater, but I thought this patr...

I'm not a hater, but I thought this patronising and simplistic. Ouch...

posted 16 years ago by Carl_Stromberg
16 replies | jump to latest

Sorry... I'm not trying to stir anything up, but I was cringing throughout this film at the simplistic and mannered world view. And the non-stop rush of cliche: burning the books, 'I told you I don't like you wastin' your time with that learning', 'I saw that Shakespeare last night, I thought it'd be dead boring', etc. The attempts at social 'realism' seemed to belong in the 50s.

Added to that the breeziest of run-throughs for such ideas as alcoholism (man falls over, man slurs his words, man has lots of bottles of whiskey in his room, yet it would disappear and reappear wholesale, simply to serve the plot) and depression (braying posh eccentric seems to have it 'all', but takes too many pills when her Mahler record hits the groove). But primarily I'm thinking of its portrayal of the 'working classes' - in the lauded screenplay, as well as the direction and the performances (I seem to recall it was subtler as a two-hander on the stage). Denny was particularly cringeworthy, he felt like a sixth-form drama student. I know it's meant to be a life worth aspiring to escape, but REALLY.

It gained emotional momentum towards the end, while not being much fun to watch, as Caine wallowed in his own crapulence and self-sympathy. But there was no convincing sense that 'Rita' had become his Frankenstein except in his head (itself an interesting idea, but not really explored, just left to stand). And the central performance veered from an utterly unconvincing 'idiot savant', in whom (through the writing of the character alone) it was impossible to see any of the academic potential she was supposed to exude - and then switched wholesale to an erudite aesthete, with no convincing 'journey'. Yet as far as could reasonably be expected she remained affectionate and engaged with Frank throughout, so it was hard to feel much sympathy for him.

Hope any lovers of this film will show me I'm wrong. Parts of it have lived with me - the mother crying in the pub, 'Morgan, *beep* off', etc. But don't get me started on the soundtrack.

[–] AssetsonFire 16 years ago

I agree, 'though I couldn't have put it as well as you did. I felt patronised by the whole thing and Walters' performance and 'working class' accent made me cringe. Incidentally, I liked the cheesy song from the pub, even if the idea of having everyone sing along to it was about as subtle as a kick in the balls.

How do you like them apples?

[–] Carl_Stromberg 16 years ago

Glad to hear I'm not alone (the miserable cheesy pub singalong was probably the most entertained I was all film).

By the way, the 'how d'you like them apples?' quote is a personal favourite of mine. If anyone knows how it came into use I'll give them, er, an apple.

[–] AssetsonFire 16 years ago

That's strange. I asked a similar question on the Chinatown board a while back, where I was given this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_do_you_like_them_apples
In addition to the films mentioned, I've noticed it in MASH and The Man Who Wasn't There.

Now... show me the apples!

How do you like them apples?

[–] Carl_Stromberg 16 years ago

Ah, the wonderful Wikipedia. Font of all knowledge. Really there's no point asking anyone what something means or where it came from any more - either it's there on Wiki, or if it isn't, then you can just make it up and say it's true.

I think I heard it in The Simpsons once too. "Apples! I hate those guys."

[–] Carl_Stromberg 16 years ago

ps thanks!

[–] GoMangoMan 16 years ago

reading Wikipedia isnt any better or worse a source of information than asking a question on a message board. I guess we should all just stop using the internet.

==================
astrolupine: even with makeup, you can't make an actor's face look like a chair

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] hugh1971 13 years ago

OK three years on but here goes...I don't agree. I think the portrayal of Rita's family and their attitudes is a pretty convincing portrayal of some working class attitudes towards education, even in the 80s. There were a lot of 'Ritas' at my university (even later in the 90s) and some of them had similar home lives, eg, friends refusing to speak to them because they went to university, etc.

I think the big change took place in 1993 when the universities were basically opened up to everyone regardless of academic ability. Rita nowadays would be probably be doing a degree in hairdressing at the University of North Tyneside or something, and her family would think it completely normal.

I agree though that Denny was a pretty dreadful actor...

[–] McQueen1980 9 years ago

Brilliant post though I enjoyed the movie putting aside the condescending social morals that weave in and out of the movie

Its the British equivalent of mike nichol's working girl made a few years later

[–] louiseculmer 9 years ago

I agree. I think the whole thing was patronising. And I couldn't see actually that she had improved her life in any way at the end. How is working in a wine bar better than being a hairdresser, which is a skilled job? are we to assume that being a hairdresser and reading books are somehow incompatible? why? Also i think the way she treats her husband is disgraceful, pretending to be trying for a baby while actually being on the pill is disgusting. She can't even ve honest with him about not wanting a baby.

[–] MovieFan00 (211) 5 years ago

She was still working towards a better future. At the end of the movie, she mentioned the possibility of going to France, accepting a job in London or continuing with her studies. Her life was still improving.

Considering how controlling and backwards her husband was, I’m not surprised she felt she had to lie to him. He was vile.

[–] huwdj (4562) 5 years ago

I think it's a bit unfair to label Denny as vile. He was very nice at the end of the film when they met as he was taking his very pregnant new wife for a check up and Rita clearly bore him no ill will. It was a case of two people who probably married young and in love but things had changed, or at least she did, and they headed off in different directions.

[–] MovieFan00 (211) 5 years ago

He was nice, because he finally had a wife to control. Rita was probably just happy to be away from him. She saw what could have happened to her and she was glad.

[–] huwdj (4562) 5 years ago

I would argue he was happier because his new wife wanted the same things he did. I think Rita was happy to see him happy because they had once loved each other and she meant it when agreeing he was a good guy - just not the one for her.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

It wasn’t patronising! It’s about a woman seeking to live life on her own terms. At the beginning Susan/Rita was just following her family and peer group’ expectations: get married, have kids, work a job to pay the bills, meet at the pub on weekends to sing the same old songs. She wanted to break out of that mould and “sing a different song”. University wasn’t about giving her new job skills, it was about expanding her horizons, giving her confidence to be single, meet new and different people, and of course, appreciate great literature and poetry. At the end, she laughs at the pompous statements made by the other students and her mixed up roommate because she has come full circle and can meet anyone eye to eye. She liked working at the wine bar because it had a more ecclectic and urban crowd. Back at the hairdresser she was making old ladies look like Princess Diana. Both paid the bills but one suited her new life better.

[–] eatmorecoffee 9 years ago

You do realise that this is Willy Russell's own story, don't you? As far as the screenplay goes, Rita had a bright and lively mind - more so than many people I was at university with who benefited from expensive educations. And there were scenes showing how Rita had changed.