When King is hiding in the closet while Victoria is undressing herself to get in the bath, he sort of smiles with satisfaction at the end of the scene as if he saw that she was a woman. But then, we have the famous line later in the film, "I don't care if you are a man."
What was he smiling about?
They'd stagger onto my lawn and call, "Blanche! Blanche!!"
When he says "I don't care if you are a man" it's just a line he's feeding her. He wants to maintain the fiction that he "fell in love with a man," probably so she will consider him a sensitive, yet strong, man to be with. He's smiling in the closet because he does know she's a woman.
"Good night, Vienna, city of a million something-or-others..."
You're correct about the way it played out in the final version of the movie, although I would add that King was probably also keeping up the pretense for Victor/Victoria's sake. Originally Blake Edwards DIDN'T want King to know for sure whether Victor/Vicotria was a man or not, and King's deciding to kiss her in spite of his confusion would have made a stronger statement. But it was the early 80's and someone convinced Blake Edwards to put in the whole sequence where King finds out the truth about Victor/Victoria, which admittedly is done with great humor and brilliance. Weakens the point he's trying to make, but not enough to really damage the movie.
shareBut isn't that what always happens when it comes to gay/lesbian/trans themes in movies, they always get 'toned down'. And yes, it was a funny scene, but it did wreck any point the movie would have made at all, in one scene. It's actually quite impressive that one scene could totally turn a story on its head. I feel for Blake Edwards.
shareThe truth of your post & the one preceeding yours is in the stage play: THERE, King DOESN'T know. And, when you watch the film after having seen the play, it's OBVIOUS that they changed it for the movie - only I originally thought it might have been as a sop to Garner - tho' I can't see him being that uptight.
shareI believe that the stage play came at least a decade AFTER the Movie (the movie was in 1982 while the stage musical wasn't until the 90s I think).
So, there you have two things, one is that in the decade between the Movie and Musical the US had made some strides when it came to acceptance of homosexuality.
Secondly, and I could be wrong, but when stuff is on the stage on Broadway, or in New York, it's a lot more accepting (actually, a whole lot of the Northeast as well as other parts of the country) than if you have to market a movie to the ENTIRE country, which, as I said has pockets of both conservatism, liberalism and moderation.
You're right... The play came AFTER the movie. The movie was loosely based on the 1933 film - a German production, I believe - "Viktor und Viktoria."
shareIt's an editing glitch. Both scenes were not intended to be in the movie together. I believe it is detailed in the commentary to the DVD, but I'm not 100% positive. I think originally, the bathtub scene did not exist, and as such King did not know if she was a she or he when he said that line. Later they added the bathtub scene, but forgot to take out his line...
So why was the bathtub scene added? Maybe it was studio pressure, and the line was left in as a snub. (I think the movie would have been stronger without the bathtub scene. It only serves to weaken the confusion King feels and later overcomes. By including the scene, King knows she's a she, and his inner termoil stops...)
The bathtub scene is the only scene one I don't like. Don't know why, but I do.
shareBecause your instincts are telling you it detracts from the rest of the film.
shareI do believe you are right.
Cheers.
Agreed. This is the one thing I think should never have made it into the movie. It undermines the entire arc of King's character.
Luckily, Garner plays that "I don't care if you are a man" romantic scene so beautifully that you really believe there that he means it and momentarily doesn't know Victor's secret.
I know Edwards took the blame afterward, admitting that he added the bathtub scene out of momentary panic, but I'll always be convinced that it was stupid studio pressure, in which someone was terrified at the idea of James Garner kissing a man.
If you removed that one scene, I'd think the movie is pretty much perfect.
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I keep thinking I'm a grownup, but I'm not.
I find it difficult to believe the bathtub scene was added later; because King acts very smug and and self assured in the scene shortly after where they are having dinner, and smiles in the club when 'Victor' and Toddy are performing as if he knows it's all an act. I wouldn't have expected him to be so self assured if he was still in doubt. I always thought the 'I don't care if you are a man' line was more for Victoria's benefit; after all she doesn't know King knows at that moment...
I guess that's what makes films like this so special; people can have different interpretations of the same scenes.
While I agree that without the "Bathtub Scene", "Victor/Victoria" makes a stronger statement, I love the whole scene as an example of Blake Edwards cleverness and skill. I also think that this scene contains some of Henry Mancini's best music (reminiscent of "The Great Race").
shareWhile I agree that without the "Bathtub Scene", "Victor/Victoria" makes a stronger statement, I love the whole scene as an example of Blake Edwards cleverness and skill. I also think that this scene contains some of Henry Mancini's best music (reminiscent of "The Great Race").
I don't think that King's turmoil ends after he finds out that Victoria is a woman in the bathtub scene. He is glad that he now knows that she is a woman, but the world still knows her as a man-Victor. If he is to pursue a relationship with her, it must be as a man to man, not the man to woman relationships he has had in the past, most recently with Dixie or Trixie or what ever her name is. Leslie Anne Warren by the way, is fantastic as King's moll and she is so funny when "Victor" drags her into the bedroom and she whispers, "Lock the door." Then she screams "She's a woman!"
This is a hilarious movie and I watch it all the time.
"Glitch" or no glitch - and I for one don't believe it was a glitch - I am GLAD that they included it. Without it, Garner's character and his sentiment would have been anachronistically and - in this day and age - absolutely annoyingly "politically correct". (Deeper, too, of course - but there's no need for an extra layer in this particular context.)
Political correctness and art - even if it is the art of comedy - don't go together.
Ironically, TODAY the inclusion of that scene would make Blake Edwards look positively audacious for his disregard of Po-Co... :)
Disagree. People's passions have overcome societal dictates throughout all of recorded history. Hell, that's the conflict at the heart of Shakespeare's works, of Wilde's - it's hardly something born out of modern "political correctness".
For Marchand to have been so overwhelmed with his feelings for "Victor" that it erased his concerns about how it looked to anyone, about how it would have looked to himself the day before - that's passion.
It was a cheat to short-circuit that with the bathroom scene. I've heard it explained various ways over the years. James Garner refused to play a man who'd accept being attracted to another man, or Blake Edwards hedged his bets putting it in and then regretted it - whatever. It was chickening out on someone's part, and the movie would have been stronger without it.
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Nothing to see here, move along.