Are they only as intelligent as whatever they are copying? Because that wolf seemed smarter than an animal.
But in some instances, it doesn't seem very smart at all. Whenever caught, it just screams, sometimes not even attacking. It's very panicky.
Blairs conjecture stated "they imitated a million lifeforms on a million planets, could change into anyone of them at any time, and that it now wants lifeforms on earth, the chameleon strikes in the dark". Whats Blairs journal was getting at is this alien lifeform is immensely intelligent, calculating, and malevolent. Being able to "change into any lifeform at any time" means it has access to all the knowledge it gains from consuming other intelligent beings. Because a perfect imitation has all the memories of the original being. Thats why the crew wasnt sure who was really human because they "looked, acted, and sounded" like the original.
Theres also evidence in the movie that shows the thing is intelligent beyond normal humans. The Blair thing was constructing a new ship (in the shape of a flying saucer!) using parts from the snowmobile and helicopter. "Smart S.O.B, put it together piece by piece" as said by Macready.
The Dog thing wandered around camp all day (getting the layout of the outpost and all the people who live there). It doesnt attack the other dogs in the kennel right away, its waiting for Clark to leave. And to my perception, it attacked AFTER the other normal Dogs realized this thing was not a Dog. They sensed it somehow, whether by smell or pure instinct. Dogs make good trackers, so it could be the smell wasnt right for the dog. The dog thing did seem more intelligent, so maybe its brain cells where different enough to accommodate superior intellect and the normal dogs could smell/sense it?
Even during the blood test done by Macready, when Palmer (thing) is watching Macready he looks more interested and curious than the others because he probably realized that Macreadys test would work.
Just the actions of the imitations themselves showcase that they know they arent human. They actively hide things, sow mistrust through the group by attempting to frame others, and they build alien ships in secret while everyone is busy.
Outside of theorizing it would duplicate anyone in their camp and continue to do that if it got to the mainland - which is true, but common sense - Blair's conjecture is a little thin. There's no way whatsoever to guess what it may or may not have done on other planets. His guess work about what it would do on Earth has merit based on it's actions and behavior in the camp. Anything beyond that is pretty baseless.
Dogs always sense things in movies. It's a pretty common and accept movie logic fact. Ghosts, terminators, aliens, monsters, they just sense it and I am fine with that
The dog-thing is smarter than a normal dog. I agree. But a smart human can blend in.
I'm not sure if I would say it far surpasses human intellect. It can build a a homemade spaceship because it's a skill that it has learned. I'm pretty sure intelligent humans - scientists, the Musks of the world, and engineers could too once exposed to the technology.
[deleted]
His theorizing hasnt been disproven, I always took it more like a way to get some exposition out there for the audience so we have some idea of what is The Thing.
By the definition of Intellect, I still stand that it far surpasses human intellect. Not only because it can build an entire spaceship from scratch, retro-engineering spare parts to serve a different function, but because of HOW it acquires this knowledge.
Humans have to study and gain knowledge over time, The Thing merely consumes the knowledge as it consumes its victims. What would take a lifetime for a human to acquire, The Thing can gain this in a matter of minutes.
My proof that supports the theory of "The Thing gains knowledge from eating its victims"
is how the imitations work.
When they are standing outside after locking up Blair, Childs ask "So how do we know whose human? If I was an imitation, a perfect imitation, how would you know it was really me"?
In order for it to perfectly imitate a person, it has to have all the knowledge and memories of its victims. Thats how it knows what "Norris" would say and do, and be able to communicate in english, understand how to work all the equipment Norris understood, act like a real human with behavior. If The Thing did not assimilate the knowledge of its victims, theres no way it can be a perfect imitation. After assimilating Norris, it would have continued acting like an alien with zero understanding how a human actually behaves. It wouldnt be able to speak english, and it would become apparent that Norris was not human anymore if he forgot how doorknobs worked and was speaking an alien language!
So even though Blairs theory came to him quickly with little to work on, the movie proves some of what he says is true.
Burden of proof lies on the person making the claim. Blair has to prove his argument, someone else doesn't disprove them. And there's no proof these creatures have done this millions of times throughout space.
Are his projections of what it could do on earth accurate? Based on their experience in the camp, yes. THAT is evidence. That is a reasonable projection based on existing data.
It also stands there and lets people kill it most of the time when discovered. It just screams and lets people incinerate it while it acts like a raging moron. Far superior? I'd say maybe smarter, but no way it's far superior. It seems like a rabid animal at times.
Youre talking burden of proof like in a courtroom proceeding, in that case you are correct. If we had to disprove someone calling us a criminal, instead of them proving we are criminal, this system would be awful for us citizens!
But in the scientific field, they have often come up with theories based on general ideas with no proof or very little proof. Blair had enough information to come up with a scientific theory which can later be proven or dis-proven.
It was Blairs scientific theory. After finding the creature, seeing what it could do, and then finding the UFO crater, Blair assumed it was the driver of the ship. (we cannot count what is shown in the prequel). So the malevolence and the ability of the creature, along with its alien origin, lead to a pretty decent theory. Keep in mind it served its intended purpose for the films story which was to give the audience exposition of the Things past, as well as give us insight on what lead to Blair blowing a gasket. Did Carpenter definitively say it was the Things past? Im not sure. But its a moot point since it cannot be truly proven without more from Carpenter.
The Things variation of what it does can account for the weakness Macready found. "Every part is a whole" so the Thing explodes in various forms and appendages to attack or escape and its not always useful. Sometimes it takes too long which leads to it being torched.
Truth is we got lucky, it landed in Antarctica and was up against some intelligent, witty, and gung-ho people! If it landed in a major city....we would have sung a different tune about its superiority in the species chain, if anyone was left around to sing that tune.
I wanted to share this 1 minute video about weather levels in Antarctica! This explains why Blair yelled "No dogs making it a thousand miles to the coast. It didnt want an animal, it WANTED USSSSSSSSS"!!!!!
https://youtu.be/qz2SeEzxMuE?list=LL
'Blair assumed it was the driver of the ship'
-- Why do you say this ? Maybe someone might guess this.
I never assumed that this was true.
It was mentioned in the movie - that maybe it climbed or was thrown out of the spaceship.
I wrote that because of Blairs notes in his journal, "It imitated a thousand lifeforms on a thousand different planets and now it wants lifeforms on earth". Fuchs reads that part of Blairs passage to Macready in the Thiokol Snow Mobile. If Blair wrote this, it means he thinks The Thing is traveling the cosmos trying to take over every planet, it cannot do that without piloting some form of spaceship. Also we never see any other alien beings in this movie. Blair made educated guesses after seeing what this thing can do and them finding the ship. We never get solid answers to Blairs notes and theories, but it does help the audience imagine what could be happening and how existential of a threat The Thing poses to us.
Climbing out or getting thrown out doesnt provide answers to what it was doing on the ship either.
I wanna add aswell, Im thinking the Thing is not all knowing at any given time. Sometimes the imitations seem like even they werent sure they were things (according to the some of the actors). Charles Hallahan, the actor who played Norris, said that he played Norris as if he thought he may be the thing but unsure of it. When Gary puts down his revolver and offers that Norris be the new leader, since he was capable and no one disliked him, Norris tells him No. Hallahan (Norris) said he liked to imagine that the reason Norris said No is because he had this feeling that maybe he was not human anymore. So this means the Thing sometimes hides its own nature from itself! This would make the situation more complicated and adds layers to everything going on. Some Things know they arent human and others dont know. It could be the Thing has some kind of layered intellect where there is a calculating deep seeded sentience that can operate continuously in the subconscious, yet also keep the conscious from knowing they are the Thing until it benefits the imitation to fully know what it is. This could be an added layer of protection, because its easier to lie if the subject BELIEVES the lie so fully thinking they are human!
This movie always has something to offer in imagination everytime I watch it.
So to summarize what I wrote, its possible the Thing has a subconscious like we do that stores everything we experience, except it also has multiple states of consciousness that operate at the same time. Being able to think and feel, and make decisions, and one consciousness is a copy of the imitation, while the others are alien intellects that can take over when its most beneficial.
This theory would support how the Thing can break apart so quickly into mutliple sentient beings. The blood cells crawling away from the hot needle, Like how the Norris head detaches and attempts to walk away, while a secondary Norris head pops up into the ceiling but is burned quickly by Macready.
I only just learned about this myself, but from what I've read, Hallahan knew he would EVENTUALLY be outed as the Thing; he just didn't know (because Carpenter refused to tell him or David Clennan / Palmer) WHEN they'd been replaced.
So I read Norris's refusal not so much as not trusting himself to be human, but rather the Thing imitating Norris so perfectly that it even duplicates Norris's inherent nervousness and self-doubt. If Norris had been gung-ho about grabbing the gun, the others might've immediately suspected him.
Also, what does the Thing care who has the gun? It's immune to bullets and has ways to kill humans that it obviously prefers -- imagine you've got a perfectly cooked prime rib just waiting on your plate; would you really want to put a bullet into it?
Better to let the primitive humans keep their toy, possibly sowing more discord, distrust and fear among them in the process.
All that said, Hallahan & Clennan DID claim to be playing it as if they didn't know. That, too, makes sense -- I'd think ALL the actors are playing characters who don't entirely trust themselves.
To take this thought a step further.
Maybe the Thing does not always pass ALL of its knowledge to Its progeny.
Especially the small ones.
Or even more , maybe it can never pass All of its knowledge to its siblings.
- Think of thousands / millions of prey and worlds.
How could it keep All of this knowledge ?
Maybe small things act like animals and re-learn.
Did you notice that when It changes - that the copied personality is discarded ?
Maybe differet Things think differently or even compete with each other.
-
An interesting thought : what if there could randomly be good / benevolent things sometimes ...
It adds a twist to Its future possibilities.
To answer your second part, about it screaming, it always seems to make that sound when its exposed or angry. Like how a cornered animal would lash out.
The screaming it does...it could be The Things real voice! That we are hearing what the alien really talks like, and it is so alien to us that we cannot comprehend what it says it just sounds like howls to us.
When they find the Bennings-thing in mid-transformation and it shows its gnarled alien limbs and looks up and just howls was the moment the movie got serious for me xD
I think it's just screaming - animal sounds to go along with the primitive birthing or dying process
What would it be saying, anyway? "Greetings! Fear not, I come in peace. Come closer and I shall showeth thee!" or "Hello! It's me, Bennings, please go back to the base, for I will be back shortly as soon as I fix my hand."
It's all fan theory of course -- my own personal theory is that the Thing's intelligence is limited by its size. A Petri dish of Thing-blood is only as smart as a rodent -- smart enough to remain quietly in disguise but not smart enough to stay that way if attacked. It takes a Blair-sized Thing to have enough brainpower to build its own ship.
The more complex the brain the higher the brain power!
I always just assumed it was a monstrous roar out of fear or anger. But after giving it some thought I think it is the Thing talking, there are frequencies that the human ear cannot hear. It could very well be the things full voice falls above and below what we hear so we only hear a part of what it is saying. Or the roar we hear is the full voice that we simply do not understand as a language. You'll notice its roar is a mixture of several sounds rolled into one...each sound variation could be a voice from one of the several sentient minds living within the Thing. As I wrote, many layers of theory can be peeled back.
keep in mind when Blair-Monster-Thing roared at Macready at the end, Macready responded "Yeah! F**k you too"!
So Blair-Monster-Thing could have been cursing a storm at Macready in its own language!
Bennings-thing's roar could have been "You insignificant worms, maggots, squirming beneath my conquering feet. You will never defeat us. NEVER"! but its in The Things language so we dont understand the roar beyond its implied anger.
But it is fan theory, and we wont know for sure..
I should add that it's also my theory that the Thing would never bother trying to "talk to" us, not even to say "fuck you flyboy, yaahahaha!"
What makes it so scary and alien is its utter lack of compassion or concern. I don't believe the Thing would want to talk to us any more than I want to talk to a steak I'm about to eat.
We're primitive consumables to it.
Good point.
How many times do you stoop down to talk to ants at their hill before running the lawnmower across it to cut the yard?
Many modern scientists said if theres alien life, they either have no interest in us or worse...we DONT want them coming here!
They'd look down at our tiny buildings and think "awe how cute, they knew enough to build tiny shelters" before consuming our planet of resources on a big harvester ship.
Thats why I like The Thing as a villian, its cold malevolence and utterly foreign nature. It feels more alien and bizarre compared to any other alien antagonist from films.
They do talk to the people though when trying to blend in.
shareI'm not sure. It's hard to know what its plans are, but assuming they're correct and it wants to be rescued, it's both very intelligent and kinda stupid.
It's very intelligent because it clearly knows way too much for a Thing that's only been unthawed in the modern era for a few days at most. It knows to lie low and get picked up so it can infect all mankind? Clever girl...
On the other hand, it's also too stupid to just rip all their faces off before they know what it is. Why not? What's the point of waiting at all? Maybe there's some primitive, lizard brain in there that won't let it stop hiding, but even that suggests the actions of an animal running on instinct rather than Sun Tzu's alien cousin. It won't even drop the charade after the researchers prove capable of detecting it.
Basically, I think we're meant to think it's of supreme intelligence (that's what the filmmakers intend), but its actions aren't always logical. Then again, since it's a totally alien intelligence, those "illogical" actions might make sense, if we only know what it knows - but we never do.
So, in that regard, the *film* is intelligent enough to give us vague details to keep the Thing menacing, but not enough to make total nonsense of its premise.
When do they say it wants to be rescued?
I've always wonder if it's intelligence is more mimicry. It can do things because the hosts it duplicates are capable of those same things, but doesn't really understand what it's doing.
They - I believe each one is a separate entity - act like morons when discovered. They flee and when caught, just scream and stare at people. I think it only attacks once: Windows.
It's like it's a basic single-cell organism or an animal, hence the reactions, that can adapt but only so much. It can talk or build a replica spaceship, but still just a scared violent animal.
It's like it's a basic single-cell organism or an animal, hence the reactions, that can adapt but only so much. It can talk or build a replica spaceship, but still just a scared violent animal.
A disease is an interesting way of looking at it for sure.
shareI just had an idea. What if some of the things are meant to know only certain knowledge? That they serve a purpose to another "Alpha" Thing? Rob Ager (film analyst on youtube) said that the Thing is playing one big chess match with Macready. We can see that Blair-Thing is the ultimate antagonist at the end. What if he/it was orchestrating the other Things to play roles to sow mistrust and discord while Blair-Thing is left undisturbed to build their escape ship?
Some info comes to mind to provide legs for this to stand on: The script says that Fuchs hid the torn pajamas in Macreadys shack and he thought to himself "I did a good thing" but then Fuchs realizes why would I do this? He gets so paranoid that the thing is taking him over/controlling his mind that he burns himself!
I still believe Blair was human all the way up until being put into the shack, but afterward is taken over. The script says "Blair hears odd rustling sounds under the shed". I like to imagine: When the first thing in the movie, Dog-Thing, is found mid transformation by the crew. It climbs into the ceiling for a good several seconds before Childs torches it. What if part of it detached into the ceiling while burning (just like Norris-head-thing!)? And is this unknown element to the story that neither the crew nor we the audience are privy to? That this small thing creature remained undetected, gathered parts from the helicopter and snowmobile, dug under the shed, and eventually took over Blair while he was housed there!
All that being written, the things weaknesses are still prevalent. Its basic need for survival, and when push comes, all bets are off when attacked and some parts will scamper away or fight back. This accounts for it being a disease that can infect on a cellular level slowly, and also as raging animals that lash out.
All of this goes a long way to account for the Things seemingly erratic behavior.
That's possible, too. Kinda like fungi, where all the "different" Things are really interconnected somehow, serving a Queen Bee.
Blair clearly got Thing'd in the shack. It's so patently obvious that I'm not even sure why the others locked him in there to begin with. For once thing, temperatures were dropping to forty below, so they were basically killing him in there anyway, and then later, when they go to check on him, they can just slide back a view port to see him? Does it not occur to them that they've put him isolated, in the cold and dark, and given the Thing a point of ingress, but Blair has no points of egress?
In fact, that he was acting crazy was more reason to doubt his Thing-ness because he wasn't trying to hide his odd behaviour.
I think there's an X factor here with exactly how the Thing infects. It's not just one cell that then takes over, because otherwise it could just shed skin cells or dandruff into the air ducts and get 'em all. So it has to be more of a process there. So, maybe it holding back has to do with that. Or maybe it was just delaying them so it could be its space ship. The fact that it can build a space ship means that it has more intellect than pure animal instinct or the basic self-preservation/multiplying of a disease.
Exactly! The Thing had motivations and an agenda, wasnt just an animal. Its self-preservation was unavoidable on a smaller scale though, hence why Macreadys hot needle test worked.
There was a theory that Blair was the Thing and acted crazy in order to be isolated from the others, but that made NO sense to me at all. Blair was the only one at first to take The Thing seriously and prevent it from escaping!
It really was a death sentence for Blair. If they were worried about his safety they wouldve locked him inside the compound with a person to guard him. But even then he couldve been turned. What could they really do with him? Its sad but Blair paid the price for saving the world from the Thing. In the end, they all did.
The lab computer showed the cell intruder digesting and imitating the normal cells. so maybe it really was possible for one cell to infect an organism, it would just take a longer time? But if thats true the Thing shouldve dropped a blood cell on top of the beer can lids? The paranoia and distrust between everyone still wouldve made that hard. Just finding someone near your canned food or room wouldve started a big fight. Also they could have sanitized the outside of the food cans and never left drinks unattended I reckon?
For sure Blair couldn't have been acting crazy as the Thing; that behaviour wasn't displayed by the monster any other time. If anything, it would have just slipped away quietly. It could've holed up somewhere with a good excuse ("I need to analyze this material") No, Blair didn't get turned until they left him in the shed - one of the group's dumbest moves.
What they should have done with him was waited for him to run out of steam (tired) and then reasoned with him, or asked him what strategy he wanted to do and followed it. Of course, they couldn't be sure he wasn't the Thing so their paranoia made them choose a different action.
That paranoia is, of course, the main point here, and what kills them is their own mistrust in one another. The logical thing to do would be to only ever stay in the same room, as a group. Vote on everything. That way there is no leader (who might be a Thing) and the Thing is never isolated enough to attack. You arm as many people as possible so if any one person turns, all the others are aware of it.
After that, you come up with tests (like the hot needle test) and you find out who's who. You do this in a sealed room so the Thing can't escape, only get killed once you find out (inevitably) who it is. Ideally, you'd clear out the furniture beforehand, too.
Burn the body.
You test everybody every hour after having burned the Thing. You do this all night. After that, get some shuteye in halves (ie, three awake, three asleep), and keep testing every (say) four hours or so. You can slowly dial back the testing (once a day, once a week, and so on) just to be on the safe side. But I'd say if nobody's a Thing by one month out, it ain't happening.
Write a full report, redundant copies, get those to civilization. Meanwhile, check around to see if there are any more ships.
Of course, all of that is reliant on people not flipping out on each other. Even Mac, the most reliable member of the team, lets paranoia get the best of him at points, and that's what kills them. They're doomed by a lack of faith in each other.
Yeah, it can't be one or two cells. Maybe like in virology small amounts would be suppressed by the immune system, no matter how camouflaged. Could someone develop an immunity to the Thing...?
I can see that, yeah. A disease or virus. It can take over a host, mimic it's skills and abilities, but it doesn't really fully grasp what it's doing because it's still a relatively primitive (mentally) being.
If you notice, you also never see any of the things working together. It doesn't even seem to enter their mind. Or to attack first, like Ace said. I don't think that it thinks much, it just does.
I think they say that it wants to lie in wait until other humans come for the research team so it can ambush those people.
Yeah, a lot of its actions do seem more impulsive, but it seems like anything that could so exactly mimic a person (including speech patterns and memory) would be able to learn about itself enough to know it could just snuff out the whole team if it wanted to.
Ooooh, I see what you mean. When you said rescued, I thought you meant something else, but get it now. Yeah, it wanted to leave the Antarctic for sure.
shareYeah, "rescued" does sound like the other Things are coming to save it; that could have been better worded on my part.
shareNo problem.
I've always loved theorizing about it/them.
1. What do they want? If anything.
2. Was the ship that crashed piloted by a "thing" or did another race find them, pick them up, there was an outbreak, etc.
3. Are they a natural occurrence or were they made?
The mystery is fun!
This conversation suggests that the Thing doesn't "want" anything other than just feeding. But who knows what would happen once it was sated? Maybe it was just hungry and once it wasn't hungry anymore it'd start doing something else. Maybe it's colonizing?
The Blair-Thing starts building a spaceship, or repairing? So it seems to me like they're capable of making the ships. Occam's Razor suggests that the Thing was piloting its own ship, or at least was part of a crew. It is possible that it was a prisoner, though. Maybe another alien race captured it and fired it into deep space (or, to us, Earth).
I think they're natural. I think the Thing is a race of alien beings. I don't think they were made.
Plot twist? The Engineers that made the Xenomorphs also made The Thing.
It sure is. This thread is reminiscent of the old school IMDB days. When real conversations happened.
Theorizing is more fun. Prometheus showed us getting answers isn't always satisfying.
There's no proof either way, but I always assumed there was some sort of fight and that's why the ship crash-landed. The Thing was not the pilot imo, it was attacking whoever's ship it was.
Natural or engineered, I'm definitely thinking it's a virus is disease; as mentioned above.
Well, they certainly like their bio weapons don't they?
Agreed. This is why I used to come to IMDb and why I still come here. I feel like I'm side-stepping a LOT of asinine political conversations these days. Why are Donald Trump, Tucker Carlson, and Jen Psaki *constantly* trending on the front page of a *movie* site? I don't want to shut people down (go, free speech!) but it makes me shake my head that people don't want to talk movies.
So, thanks for talking movies.
Yeah, the Xenomorphs were best in Alien when we knew nothing. That X factor added to the terror. The fact that it could be anything was horrifying. Prometheus really missed the mark, too, because finding out that the Engineers were responsible for humanity (God, in other words) and then being rejected by "God" would be to experience rejection by the parent on a macro-cosmic level. Imagine being told there was a Big Truth and Meaning to the universe, but that Truth doesn't care about you, so you don't get to be a part of it, ever. That would be devastating. Ridley Scott had an opportunity to go full Lovecraft with this stuff and leave audiences sand-blasted and feeling alone and helpless (arguably scarier than "monster coming with big teeth; hide").
This is literally just occurring to me now, but what if the Thing was a tiny organism found in deep space. The scientist-minded beings that found it (Federation types) experiment and accidentally kick this microscopic organism into hyper-evolution. It does what it does in the movie and replicates itself overtop of their DNA. When it does so, accidentally murdering them, it absorbs their memories and emotions, as well as their understanding of the universe. It PANICS, going from amoeba to philosopher-scientist in thirty minutes, and crash-lands the ship. What we see is it thrashing around in a combination of existential dread, rage at its place in the universe, and guilt over its horrifying nature.
The Thing must have been intelligent and self aware. Remember it came from a space faring species. The Blair thing was constructing an escape craft from the pieces of the camp while hiding from the other members in order to get away. And in the prequel, it tried to get back to the original ship and take off.
shareI mentioned this above and agree with some of the virus comments. You bring up the Blair-thing building a ship, and you're not wrong, but something about it seems like an almost fake intelligence. A mimic rather than intelligent.
shareI think it's difficult or impossible to say. I don't think it has the same kind of consciousness that we do. It's a multi-cellular organism, but its consciousness is spread out over its entirety, not just limited to our kind of nervous tissues. How this works exactly would be hard to say. For example, where is this information stored? It would have to be able to transfer information/memories as a part of the assimilation process. This information has to be stored somewhere, even while at the cellular level it remains a close enough match to a human's cellular structure that it appears and behaves like a human.
It's basically a new tier of multi-cellular life, having the ability of not just cellular imitation, but also shape-shifting, and distributed consciousness.
(One of the things I really like about the movie is how this is not really that far-fetched. That is actually in some ways a pretty plausible alien concept (maybe minus the fact that it would maybe not likely be compatible with just any biology). Multi-cellular life is already kind of "weird" how we're this collection of tiny organisms working together forming a whole, a whole that attains consciousness when the individual organisms themselves are not.)