MovieChat Forums > El sur (1988) Discussion > EXTREME SPOILER**Questions

EXTREME SPOILER**Questions


I was lucky and acquired this movie off ebay. It has the most beautiful lighting and camera work of any movie i have ever seen. It reminds me of a fine painting by rembrandt or vermeer, with the early morning light barely illuminating the girl's face. It is a shame this one is not readily available in the US.

but i found this work very ambiguous. obviously the father was a republican anti fascist. he had a love who may have been (or not) the actress Irene Rios, in the south. Maybe she was someone who looked like this actress. Maybe he fought with her.

But why did he kill himself in the end ? Was he trapped when his daughter questioned him about Irene Rios in the lunch conversation ? Did he not love his daughter and wife ? Was he just unhappy in the north ? Rather than abandon his family, he paid the ultimate sacrifice, rather than living in limbo ? Why did he kill himself shortly after the questions from his daughter ? I'm sorry if these questions seem obvious, I just wasn't sure. It didn't seem to follow exactly the rest of the story and came as a pretty big shock. At the beginning I thought it was implying that he had left for the south, rather than killing himself.

It's a shame victor erice has not done more movies. THis and spirit of the beehive, to me, are perfect movies.

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Hello dwood-4,

For films like this, "ambiguity" is a positive; it only adds, not subtracts from the stories. General melancholy, of an old man, espeically when the past is so beautiful and memorable and full of life, I think, is enough to kill a man sometimes. Beyond that, I think every watcher has one's own story.

The fact that Victor Erice made only a handful of movies in his long career only makes me respect him more. I feel as though his life is an art piece itself where the beauty and gravity of silence prevail as in his films. I only wish many more filmmakers follow his lead.

Otherwise, I wholeheartedly agree with your praise for his films. I cannot wait for the Criterion release...
Cheers,
Yoshida

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i'm an american and I must have closure in my movies!!!

i'm just kidding, but i agree the ambiguity suits me fine, it just left me with questions. a lot of times i watch a movie and feel as if i missed the point of it (maybe i'm thick) and thought i had missed something in this movie.

i will have to watch it again, i will probably watch it many times.

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We, the viewers, know and understand nothing more than the daughter. How much do we ever know and understand about our parents? The older WE get, the more ambiguous THEY become.

We could have high times
if you'll abide

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One detail that will help you is the real next fact: Víctor Erice didn't finish 'El sur' because economic problems with the production, presided by Elías Querejeta. If you know some spanish, this interview with Erice maybe will clear some ideas about this 'ambiguous' content, in part because of the aesthetic, but in the other hand, we don't even forget that "El sur" is an "incomplete masterpiece". Anyway, this is one of my five favorite films of all-time (altough with El espíritu de la colmena, Persona, Andrei Rublev and The silence). Sorry for my bad english.

http://www.rtve.es/noticias/20110107/victor-erice-sur-nunca-estuvo-planteada-como-dos-peliculas/393001.shtml

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matq_1452: Your English is fine--some words are out of order, but you communicate your information and thoughts well. I wish I could do as well in Spanish.

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dwood-4: You may never see this reply, but just in case, here is my input. I have just watched this film on the Turner Classic Movie channel for the second time, having but a very vague memory of the plot. What I did remember was the pasodoble "En er mundo," which is played twice in the film. First, it is heard in the home "la Gaviota" when the family is celebrating Estrella's first holy communion. She is dressed as a bride and her dancing with her father signals an entry into young womanhood as it is a precursor of the father's dance with his daughter on her wedding day. The presence of her father's mother and very cheerful nanny, Milagros ("Miracles") are a reminder of that mysterious southern region from where her father had fled. We know that he was unhappy at home because his father was so full of "malas pulgas" ("bad fleas") and constantly quarreled with him. His mother is certainly more reserved towards him than the ebullient nanny Milagros, who was his true maternal caretaker and who probably loves him more than his parents did. Milagros is the one to enter the home first and embrace her Augustin. The family is obviously upper class as the women travel in a grand car and have a chauffeur who handles their luggage. His family might have been pro-Franco while he is vehemently anti-Catholic. His mother and Milagros are definitely pious, as we later see that they made a trip to visit the Pope in the Vatican. Before the Communion, Augustin goes hunting and violently disrupts the sanctity of the day with frequent rifle blasts, much to the consternation of the pious women. While he does come to the church, he stands in the shadows, almost Satanic in his long coat, shrouded in gloom and rejection. We know also that Augustin was imprisoned and probably tortured. He is cast as a being isolated from his family, yet he loves his daughter who returns his love, probably because she senses his pain and melancholy.
As to the mysterious Irene Rios, Augustin is obsessed with his former lover as witnessed by his drawing of her and the rewriting of her name, as if he were trying to understand who she is now, as the name Irene Rios is a stage name. He spends time watching the old, B-rated film in which she played a secondary role, sitting alone in the cinema with his thoughts of the past. When he tries to communicate with her, she writes back with the exhortation that he not seek her, as she has changed but she is frightened, especially at night. Could those scary nights be caused by memories of their time together as Republican partisans? In spite of her plea to be left alone, the very fact that she has replied to his letter and that he does have her telephone number suggests that she is not willing to let go of him totally. That is why he tries to rejoin her that time when he disappears from home. However, Augustin deliberately misses the train and returns home to further prolong his misery.
It is when Augustin sees his daughter grown and pursued by an ardent suitor that he is pushed to the limits of his grief for the lost past. During lunch in an elegant hotel, Estrella confesses to him that she knows about Irene Rios, that she had seen him watching her film in the theatre and later writing a letter in the cafe. He does not reveal any facts, continues drinking and excuses himself to go to the lavatory. In the meantime, there is a wedding occurring in a reception room. The pasodoble "En er mundo" can be heard. There is an overhead shot of the bride and groom dancing, a reminder of the Communion day when Estrella, dressed like a little bride, danced to the same tune with her father. Augustin asks her to skip her French class and spend some time with him. Estrella, clutching the rose which the waiter had given her, insists upon leaving. That is the last time that she sees her father, with the pasodoble playing as she walks out the door. As on that Communion day, Augustin goes out shooting. This time, he shoots himself. I believe that the events are tied, that Augustin realizes that time has passed, his daughter is entering womanhood, she has left him and there is nothing that will cure the longing for his lost love. Seeing the young Estrella about to embark on her life, with a promise of love, Augustin faces the irrevocability of fate by escaping the pain of living in constant misery.
Erice had meant to continue this film with a 90 minute segment showing Estrella's visit to the southern land of her father to reconnect with his family. She also has the telephone number which she found in her father's belongings, which he left at home before killing himself. Was it the number of his lover? Perhaps Estrella would meet the mysterious Irene Rios and discover the reason for her father's passion for the lady. Unfortunately, the producer decided that the film as it was sufficed on its own merits.
I will end by saying that I felt chills up my spine when I heard "En er mundo" playing for the second time in the film. It seemed to be the signal for a very dramatic denoument. And it was.

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