MovieChat Forums > Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (1982) Discussion > Never faced death?? WTF???

Never faced death?? WTF???

posted 9 years ago by pingvuiini
14 replies | jump to latest

After Kirk tells Saavik how he beat the KM scenario, she states, 'Then you never faced that sitch, faced death.'

How can she say that to Kirk??!? Didn't Saavik watch anything from TOS at all????

The Deadly Years
The Tholian Web
Arena
The Gamesters of Triskelion
Miri
Dagger of the Mind (maybe not death but he could have lost his mind)
The Omega Glory
Journey to Babel
Wink of an Eye
Immunity Syndrome
Conscience of the King
Whom Gods Destroy
The Mark of Gideon
The Savage Curtain
Friday's Child
The Ultimate Computer
The Devil in the Dark
A Taste of Armageddon
Breads and Circuses
Errand of Mercy (ok,ok, so the Organians raided the game, but Kirk didn't know it at the time).

[–] bjlevine 9 years ago

How did Edith Keeler and Miramanee escape your list?

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Bob the Builder and Hadji walk into a bar...

[–] PillowRock 9 years ago

Your entire list comes under the umbrella of Kirk's expansion "I've cheated death and patted myself on the back for being so clever" (quote from memory, so phrasing may be a bit off). Those are all about being in potentially deadly situations, not coming to terms with the death of an intimately close friend in a situation where you were a major decision maker.

The two examples that bjlevine mentioned are much closer to the mark. However, even in those cases one could argue that Kirk's "Not like this" is still valid. That's because he had known those women for such a small fraction of the time that he had been with Spock and (possibly more importantly to Kirk's psyche) their deaths couldn't really be interpreted as being a direct failure of his command decisions. Certainly there had been other fatalities under his command, but never a case where it was both someone that extreme close to him personally *and* his command responsibility.

[–] bjlevine 9 years ago

Sam's (and wife) death had to be pretty impactful on Kirk, and that happened during one of his missions.

We never found out what Sam did that warranted his death. Suffice that he was actively trying to overcome the brain parasite.

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Bob the Builder and Hadji walk into a bar...

[–] PillowRock 9 years ago

Sam's (and wife) death had to be pretty impactful on Kirk, and that happened during one of his missions.

Yeah, but I don't think that it was precipitated by Kirk's decisions / orders to the extent Spock's was. I don't see it being the same kind of source of self-recrimination.

[–] pingvuiini 9 years ago

Makes sense. It never occurred to me to consider the death of others as opposed to just himself, which happened in a majority of TOS episodes. There were a few TOS episodes where close crew members 'died' and were conveniently brought back, i.e. Scotty in The Changeling, Bones in Shore Leave (he never really died but Kirk didn't know that), Spock in Return to Tomorrow and Spock's Brain (maybe not technically dead, but he truly lost his mind).

[–] erictopp 8 years ago

And let's not forget the final scene of the best episode of TOS (and maybe all of Star Trek):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFqD7s-A6VU

[–] Cold_In_Space 8 years ago

I guess she was too young for that, and she was revolted that Kirk cheated the Kobayashi Maru.

But yes, the statement is incorrect. And so is Khan seeing Chekov again, when he never saw him in "Space Seed". That's the real incosistency, but it doesn't hurt the film too much.

[–] Humphrey_Fish 8 years ago

But yes, the statement is incorrect. And so is Khan seeing Chekov again, when he never saw him in "Space Seed".

So they both know the name of the episode, and Khan claims Walter Koenig was in "Space Seed"? You're lying.

Quien es mas Sherlock?

Hombre de Hierro

O

Doctor Extraño

[–] Cold_In_Space 8 years ago

What?

Khan said he remembered CHEKOV, who was played by Koenig, but who did not appear in the episode "Space Seed", which was Khan's one and only show appearance on TOS.

And nobody ever mentioned the name "Space Seed" in this film.Have you seen it? :)

[–] Humphrey_Fish 8 years ago

Khan said he remembered CHEKOV

That's what happened in the movie.

but who did not appear in the episode "Space Seed"

Which doesn't matter to the discussion. Well over 90% of the crew wasn't in "Space Seed", Krako.

And nobody ever mentioned the name "Space Seed" in this film.

You are the one that brought it up. The episode has no bearing on the matter.

Quien es mas Sherlock?

Hombre de Hierro

O

Doctor Extraño

[–] Cold_In_Space 8 years ago

What matter? The matter was that Khan remembered Chekov. They did not see each other before. Okay, Okmyx, I'll sit this one out. I'm not following. I agree with you on Saavik.

Live long and have a piece of the action. 😜

Shadows of the night

[–] Ashaod43 8 years ago

Kirk says he hasn't faced death, so I would get what you are all saying but after he says that he says "not like this"
I am sure he was much closer to Spock than anyone. Not only closer by friendship but the fact thst he needed him as well as Dr McCoy. They were a tripod. Being on the ship with your life on the line with thise two guys becomes much more important than the others in his life. That is what is most important to Kirk, his crew and his ship.
As for Chekov it was already known he wasn't in the season with Ricardo in space seed. It was a screw up that Meyer made when making the film. He later explained that Chekov could have been assigned somewhere else in the ship before he made it to the bridge, and when Khan recognized him it was when Khan was looking at the ships library in space seed. Being smart as he was and wanting to take over the ship he would have looked at everyone on the ship to see if they were a threat. Just one way of thinking of it for continuity.

[–] bjlevine 8 years ago

According to Walter Koenig, their paths crossed in one of the ship's bathrooms when Chekov was hogging the only stall.

21 Fake CJs and 2 CowboyWizards Ignored (and counting)

[–] 8 years ago

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