Nazi intent...


There is a large adherence to something akin to Holocaust Denial and it shows up in that most democratic of places: Wikipedia. The general direction of these people: a) the Holocaust was not as extensive as people say--no where near the numbers attributed; b) others died in the camps, not just Jews; c) the extermination of the Jews was a result of Nazi fanatics who strayed from Nazi mainstream ideology; d) Hitler did not personally order extermination of the Jews and knew nothing of this. Or there are variations of that thinking.

Holocaust Deniers are a lunatic fringe to reality. It doesn't matter what any one could or would say, they are not going to be moved toward recognition of the reality of the Holocaust.

My interpretation of the events comes mainly from Miss Leni Yahil's THE HOLOCAUST: THE FATE OF EUROPEAN JEWRY, 1932-1945, a masterful and thorough examination of the topic. I include these thoughts in the film SOPHIE'S CHOICE because it is probably the best (and most viewed) film re the Holocaust and because it is based on the excellent Wiliam Styron novel of the same name. Styron explores themes in great detail what the film glosses over.

Hitler spoke before the Reichstag in January 30, 1939. He prophecied: the annihilation--Vernichtung--of the Jewish race in Europe! It is unfortunate that the speeches of Hitler are not always presented in English and German in order to see that the English word translates correctly the German intent. What word did he acutally use in this speech for the English 'exterminate'? He used the word 'Vernichtung' which means: destroy, exterminate, annihilate. So there is no misinterpretation of Hitler's intent. This 1939 speech was a reiteration of one he made 10 years previous.

The next point to make. The Wannsee Conference of January 20, 1941 simply reiterated what the Nazi State was already doing. The Wannsee Conference was held at Wannsee, a suburb of Berlin. It was attended by 15 of the Nazi High Command. The phrase occurs deliberately: The final solution of the Jewish Problem and that is understood as code for extermination either by being worked to death or being murdered.

Third--the construction of the gas chambers at the five factories of death: Chelmno, Sobibor, Majdenek, Auschwitz-Birkenau, Treblinka were created because there was no sufficient way to get rid of dead corpses from the previous procedure of shooting people to fall into pits; the graves would heave for several days with rotting corpses. The gas chambers were deliberatly created to make killing efficient, the crematoria were created for destruction of evidence. The Einsatzgruppen were originally assigned to do the killing--by shooting people in the head in cold blood--but such a procedure took a toll on the perpetrators; they simply could not sustain the coldbloodedness required, driving many to a point of madness.

And finally at the end of the war, there was every attempt from the Nazis to obliterate the evidence of their evil deed. All of this strongly indicates both indirectly and directly, that Hitler knew what was happening, that the Nazi party was realizing Hitler's stated goal of 'Vernichtung/extermination' of the Jews.

I suppose most people will not fall for wacko revisionists who make absurd claims about reality of the Holocaust. But it is important, to assert at some point, as precisely as possible, as briefly as possible, the evidence confirming Nazi intent and Nazi realization of Hitler's stated goal.

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[deleted]

Wow. What a jagoff thing to say.

http://phazzle.blogspot.com

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I guess you need to stick to Twitter, rob2661. Maybe those 140 characters can hold your attention.

Sad.

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[deleted]

Hang in there! In time, reading should get a lot easier and more fun. Spelling too.

http://pbskids.org/read



"Don't get chumpatized!" - The King of Kong: A Fistful of Quarters (2007)

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There are also some people who still claim that the 1969 moon landing was done on a Warner Brothers soundstage. Holocaust deniers are either anti-semetic or solipsistic in their desire not to believe something that they haven't seen. Sometimes I have a hard time believing that humans could be so vicious to each other, but the evidence in films, books, and firsthand accounts of the survivors is irrefutable.

http://phazzle.blogspot.com

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Oh yes, Hitler and tha Nazi's most certainly did bring about the Holocaust. HItler was an Evolutionist. He loved Neitsche's (spelling?) idea of the evolution giving us a "Master Race" and his occultic beliefs supported his understandings. He thought the Teutonic people were just that, the master race.

HItler hated the idea of God and religion. He said "No self-respecting German would ever worship an anemic Jew". He was also quoted as saying that as soon as we are done with the Jews, we must get rid of the Christians because they are just the next step in religious poison, or some such thing.

There is no limit to mans evil.

www.joekeck.com

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It's spelled Nietzsche. Friedrich Nietzsche.

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Although Hitler could not have been more evil, he didn't start antisemitism. Hitler took advantage of what had been started years earlier by Martin Luther when starting the prodistin church.

"Jewish synagogues and schools be set on fire, their prayer books destroyed, rabbis forbidden to preach, homes burned, and property and money confiscated. They should be shown no mercy or kindness, afforded no legal protection, and these "poisonous envenomed worms" should be drafted into forced labor or expelled for all time. [w]e are at fault in not slaying them"

http://www.vho.org/aaargh/fran/livres9/Luthereng.pdf

Life is like Wikipedia: There are no Facts, Just Popular Opinion

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Antisemitism didn't start with Martin Luther, either. Antisemitism, slavery, rape, murder, thievery, and all other evils started with Adam and Eve. And they, as well as all sin, is equally accredited to every race, religion, ethnicity, regional location, culture, and fashion savvy group known to history.

Humans are the key factor in nefarious behavior.

www.joekeck.com

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The moon landing was fake. It was done in my uncles Garage with puppets

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How is it denying the Holocaust to acknowledge that Non Jews died in the camps? As well as the appalling murder of millions of Jews, the Nazi's killed millions of Poles, Homosexuals, Romany people , Soviet POWS and Disabled people. How is remembering those people denying the suffering of the Jews? If anything, it proves even more,if any proof were needed, how utterly disgusting the Nazi regime was.

history is a battle fought by a great evil,struggling to crush a small kernel of human kindness

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Emma, please re-read what was written. Your conclusion cannot be made from what was written. Nazi intent was to exterminate the Jews. No one denies millions of others died in the camps; but the intent of the Final Solution was to exterminate Jews. Again, your observation is not warranted by what was written.

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I wasn't trying to be offensive. I just think that ALL the victims of Nazism should be remembered equally.

history is a battle fought by a great evil,struggling to crush a small kernel of human kindness

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Oftentimes--and please, I don't mean you--when people say 'others died in the camps' it is a veiled anti-semitic statement. The Wansee Conference explicitly mentions the Jews for extermination. That singular mention is what makes the Holocaust as a Jewish event. Photocopies of the German notes of the Wansee Conference are available on line as is the English Translation. (The links can be found via the Wiki page on the Wansee Conference.) The whole point of my comment was to provide a thumbnail sketch re the uniqueness of the Holocaust as a Jewish event; The Wansee Conference was a statement directed explicitly toward extermination of the European Jewish community. I do not intend to negate or dismiss anyone's death at the hands of the Nazis. But there does need emphasis on the uniqueness of the Holocaust as a Jewish event.

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I understand. I wasn't trying to disrespect the Jewish suffering in the Holocaust. I just think that some people-and I don't mean you-dismiss the deaths of the other victims as unimportant. Some people have told me that the deaths of the non-Jewish victims don't matter and those people shouldn't be remembered. I think that's wrong. In my opinion, they all deserve to be commemorated.

history is a battle fought by a great evil,struggling to crush a small kernel of human kindness

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But what you fail to take into consideration is the fact that Hitler also targeted other groups. It's not as though they were merely collateral damage. Anyone that didn't meet his standards needed to be exterminated for his final goal to be achieved. Yes, his primary focus was the Jewish population, but he also wanted the Romany, the handicapped, the homosexuals, and many other minorities wiped from the face of the earth. Saying such is not inherently antisemitic - just as complaining about the policies of Israel doesn't mean you are a bigot - I say this as a Jewish individual.

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Thank you. That's exactly what I wanted to say. You put it much better than I could have done.


history is a battle fought by a great evil,struggling to crush a small kernel of human kindness

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[deleted]

Antisemitic intent? Who in the hell said that b/c lots of Jews suffered during WW2 [not "the" Jews] that "they" should be given carte blanch to do what they want today?

The fact that you equate Israel = all Jews is very revealing.

But according to you, "they" "control" America. The Jews make up a comparatively small section of the voting base. You can't criticize Israel? What about the constant reprimands we make against civilian strikes and targeted assassinations? Sure, they're not enough, we should be more outspoken, but the extremes of your post make your credibility whittle down to nothing.

Obviously, you've bought into the myth that there are no Christian Zionists, and/or that it's not geopolitical status that's the real reason we keep sending tax dollars over there.

Yes, I believe Israel makes mistakes, including human rights abuses. I also believe you're an antisemite for what you wrote.

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Antisemitic intent? Who in the hell said that b/c lots of Jews suffered during WW2 [not "the" Jews] that "they" should be given carte blanch to do what they want today?

The fact that you equate Israel = all Jews is very revealing.

But according to you, "they" "control" America. The Jews make up a comparatively small section of the voting base. You can't criticize Israel? What about the constant reprimands we make against civilian strikes and targeted assassinations? Sure, they're not enough, we should be more outspoken, but the extremes of your post make your credibility whittle down to nothing.

Obviously, you've bought into the myth that there are no Christian Zionists, and/or that it's not geopolitical status that's the real reason we keep sending tax dollars over there.

Yes, I believe Israel makes mistakes, including human rights abuses. I also believe you're an antisemite for what you wrote.

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To make the claim that Hitler or the Nazis wanted anyone 'wiped from the face of the earth' shows a huge degree of ignorance of what happened. It is fine for when you want to educate someone who has no interest in the subject, but for people who at least know as much as to tell that there were different groups persecuted by the Nazis it is disturbing.

The point being that the treatment of Jews (and Gypsies) changed over time. That of the other groups; only the mentally ill were systematically murdered. Also that the views of both Hitler and the Nazis did not spread past their borders, the whole reason why the groups were targeted was a clear and obvious reason why they did not care about what happened to these groups in other countries. The mentally ill in Germany were killed because they were a drain on resources, thus impeding Germany from becoming great and dominating other countries.

Every group which was targeted, was targeted for a reason, grouping them together only serves to show a lack of understanding of what happened. No other group were subject to what the Jews were subject to, this is why the Holocaust only refers to the Jewish tragedy. Only the Gypsies suffered anything similar (and arguably worse), but again it would show ignorance to suggest that they suffered the same experience.

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That singular mention is what makes the Holocaust as a Jewish event. (...) The whole point of my comment was to provide a thumbnail sketch re the uniqueness of the Holocaust as a Jewish event


Dude, I'm Polish - and in all due respect but - if you would claim such a manifestation of arogant ignorance out loud anywhere in Poland you would be beaten up severely by any member of the polish public. And righteously so.

I'm not saying Jews haven't suffered greatly in Holocaust, nor their tragedy is not of a massive importance, but claiming that it was an exclusively (in your reasoning) a 'Jewish event' is a huuuuuge offence to the polish nation in terms of its history, war effort and national identity. Poles were next to Jews in Hitler's grand scheme of ethnic cleansing of the Europe. From wikipedia:

The Nazi crimes against the Polish nation claimed the lives of 2.7 to 2.9 million Polish Jews,[64] and 2.77 million ethnic Poles,[65] including Polish intelligentsia, doctors, lawyers, nobility, priests and numerous others.


2.7-2.9 as opossed to 2.77.
But do not forget that 'Polish Jews' were also 'Poles'.

Hitler has destroyed to pieces the entire social, cultural and economical structure of poland by killing off everyone of even a little substance in terms of knowledge or position, basically everyone above a profession of a farmer. The consequences of his intent are felt deeply to this day, as Poland still struggles to fully stand on its feet because of that. The amount of grief and sense of neglect from other countries (like being thrown into stalin's comunistic hell by Churchill's reckless decision afterwards) and social injustice runs so deeply in polish veins for so long now it organically became an ingrained stance in the sense of national identity. Even to this day. To dismiss the nation's tragedy, a tragedy that was devised for that nation - ironically and sarcastically - on its very soil by crowning a religious minority of that country a #1 as if in some surreal sick 'Best Hits Ranking' would boil the blood of every single Pole that would hear that. Once again, do not forget that 'Polish Jews' were also 'Poles'. And to draw an anti-semitic card on this one is just even more dumb. Don't go into that super trend of facebook-ignited "blame culture". Look up the help of Poles aiding Jews throughout the WWII. Wikipedia, again:

Grouped by nationality, Poles represent the largest number of people who rescued Jews during the Holocaust. To date, 6,394 Poles have been awarded the title of Righteous Among the Nations by the State of Israel–more than any other nation.[66] Some estimates put the number of Poles involved in rescue efforts at up to 3 million, and credit Poles with sheltering up to 450,000 Jews.



I do appreciate the movie, but people have to know that it represents a somewhat biased, distorted outlook of the attitude of Polish people towards Jews thoughout the war. Sophie's Choice provoked many cases of unfounded prejudice towards the poles by fueling the remebrance of the facts in collective consciousness with damaging FICTION constructed by the attitude of a singular character. Sophie's Choice is the the biggest (and only) american movie that deals with the subject of WWII from the Polish perspective, yet her stance towards Jews is damaging to recognition of the actual acomplishments of the Poles towards the Jews at the time. People watch only this movie and base their opinion about entire nations moves on her attitude. This really grinds my gears. Add to this that attitude of "and the winner in the category the biggest victim of a holocaust is..." by somewhat dismissing the tragedy, the importance and the urgence of everlasting remeberance of other nations involved - just because they differ by some mere percentage in terms of victims' numbers. Being a Pole and having a chunk of my family going through Auchwitz, it breaks my soul to the very core how dismissive people get over our great national tragedy, disregarding its impact it had on us as a collective society, an impact in every single aspect of our lives. Please do not play around with this sensitve topic by juggling hypothesisis and statistics with your eyes blindfolded, it only mianifests your personal ignorance and a false sense of factual authority that will severly hurt people that are involved in the matter. Which is like - the entire Polish nation.

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"like being thrown into stalin's comunistic hell by Churchill's reckless decision afterwards"

Disgraceful statement. Not only did Britain declare war on Nazi Germany due to their invasion of Polish soil, but Churchill fought hard for Polish sovereignty in the latter years of the war (read minutes of the Yalta Conference) and knew well the threat posed by Stalin and the communists. If blame is to be levelled then it is at Eisenhower's feet, not Churchill's, for he wanted nothing to do with the aftermath of Europe's war.

Regrettably Churchill's voice was overwhelmed by that of the greater powers, thus his prediction of an 'Iron Curtain' went unheeded.

Poland should honour this great statesman, just as Britain honours the many brave young Poles who made up a great number of the RAF.

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How is it denying the Holocaust to acknowledge that Non Jews died in the camps? As well as the appalling murder of millions of Jews, the Nazi's killed millions of Poles, Homosexuals, Romany people , Soviet POWS and Disabled people. How is remembering those people denying the suffering of the Jews?

THANK YOU, emmaclarke781. Thank you.

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It's sad that people would deny history, it implies we're doomed to repeat it.

The only thing I would add is motivation. It wasn't simple hatred, though I assume that played a role, it was political misdirection. Hitler read Machiavelli for 30 minutes every night before bed, and the Final Solution is spelled out in that treatise. Give people someone to hate and fear, they will not pay attention to your atrocities. We've seen this theme repeated many times since WWII, whether it be the Russians, Muslims, or Americans. 500 years later we're still manipulated in the same manner as Renaissance Italians, I suspect it will be repeated for a long time to come.

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b) others died in the camps, not just Jews;
Well, that part doesn't have to be discounted. Who else was targeted? I think gypsies, homosexuals, "subversive" artists, Jehova's Witnesses, mentally infirm. They were in smaller numbers because there were fewer in the population statistically, but still there.

A sad thing is that went the camps were liberated, everyone was set free except the gays, who were sent into prisons.

Cheery.

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